Simulation Theory tour discussion

[kueller]

Suuuurely they can’t botch this segment? (inb4 “they already have” btw you fuckers)

 

I mean, I can’t think of anything they could rotate in/out that could significantly downgrade it. Unless your fear is it just gets shorter and cool stuff gets left out?

 

Basically the 2nd. It would totally not surprise me if they decided the US doesn't know Dead Star or Assassin so might as well drop those like Plug In Baby in 2013. Or replace it but I don't know what it would be replaced with that's on levels less interesting.

[Claudia O]

Don't know if this has been discussed beofre, but not every gig next year will be in a big stadium, like the one I am goin to in Graz. I wonder if the smaller venues will get a different show than the stadiums? Matt said the only stadium that can take the big show/setup was the one in Bristol. Why not do arena shows in Britain as well?

 

I mean, I'd love to see the big show but tbh I can live without actors/dancers. Choir or string orchestra or brass-band? Yes please

 

Edit: yes, we don't know how it will be like with "people onstage" but I'm not so fond of distraction lol

[forevermusic]

Rotate everything else heavy out the set leaving just the medley. I'm not joking. I could legit see that happening.

Thought the nearest to non-medley heavy was Psycho and Showbiz.

 

Unless I missed something.

[LewisF]

Really can’t get my head round the medley. Playing any 3 of all the songs played in the medley throughout the gig would be vastly superior. Even in the event that the 3 full songs played were the longer ones to choose from, that wouldn’t even exceed 18 minutes.

[Citizen_Eraser]

Matt has to play Algorithm on guitar instead of keyboard, maybe using that tone from PiB from that one gig where they played Eternally Missed.

 

Him constantly going back and forth from the mic to the piano was a bit ridiculous, and the chorus sounds so empty without any guitar.

 

He just needs to wear the guitar while standing at the synth. Him not playing those riffs makes the song lack much needed beefiness. Sounded really thin live.

[Man_In_Showbiz]

Instead of playing shortened versions, I think I'd rather them just stick a couple of heavy riffs on the end of a few songs.

 

Newborn then Dead Star & Micro Cuts

Stockholm Syndrome then Reapers & Agitated

[BlueEyedFloozy]

He just needs to wear the guitar while standing at the synth. Him not playing those riffs makes the song lack much needed beefiness. Sounded really thin live.

 

Agreed. While I was glad to be at its debut it just...lacked something.

[Jobby]

Even more than a guitar (is the chorus actually guitar? I assumed so but it seemed Chris played it high up on the bass live), the synth just needs to be beefed up imo. You need to feel it proper whomp for it to feel ‘big’ enough as an opener. Same’ll go for TV if/when that eventually gets played.

[Museman8989]

Basically the 2nd. It would totally not surprise me if they decided the US doesn't know Dead Star or Assassin so might as well drop those like Plug In Baby in 2013. Or replace it but I don't know what it would be replaced with that's on levels less interesting.

 

As I US fan this is exactly what I both fear and expect.

[hyena17]

Basically the 2nd. It would totally not surprise me if they decided the US doesn't know Dead Star or Assassin so might as well drop those like Plug In Baby in 2013. Or replace it but I don't know what it would be replaced with that's on levels less interesting.

 

That's what gets me. Even if half the audience doesn't know Dead Star, it shouldn't matter. Matt is so hung up on the US audiences "knowing" the songs. Guess what, the people paid money to see you because they like your stuff. Play something they don't know and they will be curious. Nobody is going to leave a gig or stand there with their hands in their pockets because a song they don't recognize is being played. Fucking hell, they're the only band that seems to have this line of thought.

[Museman8989]

That's what gets me. Even if half the audience doesn't know Dead Star, it shouldn't matter. Matt is so hung up on the US audiences "knowing" the songs. Guess what, the people paid money to see you because they like your stuff. Play something they don't know and they will be curious. Nobody is going to leave a gig or stand there with their hands in their pockets because a song they don't recognize is being played. Fucking hell, they're the only band that seems to have this line of thought.

 

Yeah it really boggles my mind. I saw them on the summer tour and there was a guy who was clearly at his first show. They played Stockholm and he was like "Wow I didn't know this song! This song ROCKS!".

 

Play any song, either people will like it or they may not. Not playing a song because "maybe someone hasn't heard it before" is so lame. This guy probably came for Madness and wound up loving SS. Maybe someone comes for Pressure and loves them for Plug in Baby. You never know.

Edited December 6, 2018 by MusersAdvocate

[Jobby]

I think that’s an overly-simplified way of describing their thought process. At the end of the day, I think they just wanna deliver what they think most people showing up to a gig wanna hear. Hence why songs specific to places show up (Resistance in the US, UD in Germany, probs more in others). That’s a mindset I can completely understand tbh.

 

or stand there with their hands in their pockets because a song they don't recognize is being played.

 

This happens pretty often actually tbf, just look at almost any big gig where a rarity gets played.

[Museman8989]

I think that’s an overly-simplified way of describing their thought process. At the end of the day, I think they just wanna deliver what they think most people showing up to a gig wanna hear. Hence why songs specific to places show up (Resistance in the US, UD in Germany, probs more in others). That’s a mindset I can completely understand tbh.

 

 

 

This happens pretty often actually tbf, just look at almost any big gig where a rarity gets played.

 

I understand it, but it's still very narrow. I know its been discussed to no end, but Muse doesn't "owe" us anything when they play a show in terms of a set selection. It's definitely sure as hell considerate that they want to play songs that 95% of people will know, but it does lead to staleness tour to tour. Tonight is show 18 for me and I think I've seen the same core 15 songs at all regular tour shows.

[hyena17]

This happens pretty often actually tbf, just look at almost any big gig where a rarity gets played.

 

The point is, it's not even a realistic observation. I mean, he doesn't even know what the reaction would be because they don't play those rarities enough to even find out. There is a bigger percentage of people at any given gig that don't know any songs off a new album and will have the same reaction, so "killing the energy" or whatever isn't an excuse either. Nothing killed the energy of a gig the way that NKOK did, yet they continued with that.

 

I mean, yeah maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the simplest explanation is just laziness. Play the generic radio hit setlist for the US, it gets good crowd reactions for the popular songs. It takes zero effort and they don't have to change anything up.

 

And I guess there just aren't enough people standing there with their hands in their pockets during Resistance the way I do, then.

[Jobby]

The point is, it's not even a realistic observation. I mean, he doesn't even know what the reaction would be because they don't play those rarities enough to even find out. There is a bigger percentage of people at any given gig that don't know any songs off a new album and will have the same reaction, so "killing the energy" or whatever isn't an excuse either. Nothing killed the energy of a gig the way that NKOK did, yet they continued with that.

 

I mean, yeah maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the simplest explanation is just laziness. Play the generic radio hit setlist for the US, it gets good crowd reactions for the popular songs. It takes zero effort and they don't have to change anything up.

 

And I guess there just aren't enough people standing there with their hands in their pockets during Resistance the way I do, then.

 

They aren’t lazy, you don’t book a schedule that busy, put that much thought into the production and look like your face is gonna pop for half the songs just to jump in a bus and travel to the next one if you’re a lazy live band. Saying it doesn’t take effort to do what they do is just massively off the mark.

 

They’ve played plenty of rarities at big gigs over the years and, while the level of reaction might vary in different places of the world, the majority of the crowd is usually not massively engaged (at least visually and audibally, which is what Muse feed off). They’re always gonna play the new songs regardless ‘cos that’s kinda the point of an album tour and I agree NKOK was a poor choice but it was used purely as a break for Matt, not in service of the crowd. Everything else is what they think people are coming to see them for, and they’re right 90% of the time tbh. Even then, just about every tour, they still go to the effort of throwing the hardcores a bone every now and again with a Bliss or Sunburn or CE or Butterflies etc., depsite knowing it’s really just for us.

[kueller]

It's really sad honestly the fan favorites never get the same reaction.

[Nigel_Tufnel]

I've rarely seen more disengaged fans than when the band played The Globalist during the last tour and that consumed about 10% of their actual stage time for the whole show. Most of the people around me were just talking, especially during the quiet first section. I doubt that throwing in 4 minutes of Bliss, Muscle Museum or whatever could have been any worse for casual fans.

 

And what is the deal with all this talk from Matt about "choreography" of performers and dancers on the upcoming tour? Are they going full-on Spinal Tap here? All they might be missing is an animatronic shark for Matt to jump over.

[czuczu]

Remember them playing Ruled By Secrecy at Wembley in 2010 and the majority of the crowd talked through it, werent even interested in giving it a go - to the point they actually drowned out the song with chatter

[hyena17]

They aren’t lazy, you don’t book a schedule that busy, put that much thought into the production and look like your face is gonna pop for half the songs just to jump in a bus and travel to the next one if you’re a lazy live band. Saying it doesn’t take effort to do what they do is just massively off the mark.

 

I didn't say that. I said that it's lazy to pull out a generic setlist in one country and never change it. I didn't say they don't put in physical effort or emotion. If I thought that, I'd quit going to gigs. It's just that, for whatever reason, the setlists here are 99% predictable, which is not a good thing for a band that has been around as long as they have. There is definitely a lack of...something...going on here.

 

Even then, just about every tour, they still go to the effort of throwing the hardcores a bone every now and again with a Bliss or Sunburn or CE or Butterflies etc., depsite knowing it’s really just for us.

 

We will not get any of those four at any US arena shows. I'd bet on that.

 

I've rarely seen more disengaged fans than when the band played The Globalist during the last tour and that consumed about 10% of their actual stage time for the whole show. Most of the people around me were just talking, especially during the quiet first section. I doubt that throwing in 4 minutes of Bliss, Muscle Museum or whatever could have been any worse for casual fans.

 

This. I remember singing along with it and every once in a while getting broken out of my trance and looking around and nearly everyone around me (some on the barrier with me, some one row behind me) completely disengaged like they had no idea what was happening.

[Hat]

I didn't say that. I said that it's lazy to pull out a generic setlist in one country and never change it. I didn't say they don't put in physical effort or emotion. If I thought that, I'd quit going to gigs. It's just that, for whatever reason, the setlists here are 99% predictable, which is not a good thing for a band that has been around as long as they have. There is definitely a lack of...something...going on here.

And his point is that since Muse aren't lazy in nearly any other regard as a live band, the lack of variety probably isn't due to laziness. It's not laziness that makes them rehearse a rarity to play for a couple of gigs in Europe or Asia and then drop it in the US. That's not how it works.

 

This "whatever reason" has been explained by Muse themselves several times. Trust me I think it's really stupid of them, but it's certainly not laziness. Matt has even complained after gigs in the US because they only react to the pop hits. What you said originally was that people wouldn't "stand there with their hands in their pockets because a song they don't recognize is being played", but that's exactly what the majority of the audience has done whenever a rarity has been played.

 

 

We will not get any of those four at any US arena shows. I'd bet on that.

Probably not, no.

[kueller]

Trust me I think it's really stupid of them, but it's certainly not laziness.

 

This is my favorite summary.

[kueller]

We know why they do it, and it is understandable to see the dead crowds from your perspective on the stage (has no one ever been in this position even in a classroom?), but it's a validation that's almost impossible to achieve at this point and it just hurts as a bigger fan.

 

The crowds in Europe are generally good. While Dead Star might be too rare nowadays there's still good excitement for the general sets. This is in stark contrast to the really large percentage of US crowds that will be immobile and unresponsive until Madness or Resistance or Uprising comes on (but it's mostly Madness honestly). It sucks for the band and it sucks for me as an audience member too because not only do the sets get cut down the atmosphere is magnitudes more dull.

[Hat]

And I get why Muse won't do it but it still angers me that they won't just say "fuck it" and play the songs they wanna play until the crowd that is literally only there to hear 2 songs takes the hint and fucks off.

 

If they wanna play the biggest venues in the world by catering to the people who will start a phone conversation if a non-single is played, then they can't really complain about people's reactions.

 

Or, like I said in a more elaborate way in this old post:

Because that brings me back to what I said last page or something, which is that they're simply choosing the wrong singles. Sure Madness, Undisclosed Desires, Mercy etc are a shortcut to stadium gigs. But if what Muse really wanna do is play the rock stuff, then they gotta promote that side of themselves. (Just to bring you up to speed, last tour Matt complained that the audience didn't know their songs so they were forced to play singles).

 

This is why I think the problem isn't just about "changing" as a band and growing older, because songs like The Handler, Psycho, Reapers, Supremacy, Animals, Liquid State etc aren't that different from their older stuff. The problem is that Muse are promoting themselves as a pop group, then they get disappointed when these new fans of Madness and Follow Me aren't reacting well to Stockholm Syndrome and New Born. Like...you can't have both. Either you (Muse) stand for being a pop group and just play the hits for as many years as you can, or you stop catering to people you don't enjoy playing for.

[Nigel_Tufnel]

And I get why Muse won't do it but it still angers me that they won't just say "fuck it" and play the songs they wanna play until the crowd that is literally only there to hear 2 songs takes the hint and fucks off.

 

If they wanna play the biggest venues in the world by catering to the people who will start a phone conversation if a non-single is played, then they can't really complain about people's reactions.

 

Agree with all of this. I was going to say that their choice of venues factors into the problem. Because Muse plays arenas in the US that often outsize their popularity, they end up with a lot of casual fans who don't know anything but the more recent singles. If they played smaller concert halls and the tickets took more effort to obtain, you'd have a bigger concentration of hard core fans. I guess there's more money to be made in playing a half-full arena than a sold-out hall/auditorium/theatre.

 

The flip side is that maybe they are playing the songs that they want to play. In that case, we should all fuck off.

[Jobby]

I didn't say that. I said that it's lazy to pull out a generic setlist in one country and never change it. I didn't say they don't put in physical effort or emotion. If I thought that, I'd quit going to gigs. It's just that, for whatever reason, the setlists here are 99% predictable, which is not a good thing for a band that has been around as long as they have. There is definitely a lack of...something...going on here.

 

No but when you say that you think there’s an element of their touring that they do in a certain way because it doesn’t take any effort, I’m saying that doesn’t really fall in line with every other aspect of their touring so I’m pretty sure it’s down to something else. Which is also backed up by the fact that, like Tjet said, they’ve actively explained why they do it before.

 

The setlists just about everywhere are mostly predictable to me, it’s just the ones with 1/2 fan favourites happen less often over there.

 

We will not get any of those four at any US arena shows. I'd bet on that.

 

The US arena and amphitheatre tours last era got all of them (minus Sunburn) plus TAB, Map and AP. T2L’s US arenas had Butterflies, Map, Bliss, Sunburn, Fury, Agitated, New Born and NSC (not a fan favourite but v rare). Even for TR, which was notoriously lacking in variation, there was RBS, CE and Bliss. They could break pattern next tour, sure, but there’s nothing to suggest it based on past evidence.

 

Edit: though if I was them and I read half the stuff they do from the people they occasionally play these songs for (not singling out you btw) about how they hate fans, don’t care or put in effort etc, I’d wonder why bother playing any at all tbh. They aren’t blowing the competition away with this stuff but, tbh, there’s nothing saying they have to and they do more than a lot of other bands, who would just play exactly the same set night after night. I think they deserve more credit if anything.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Jobby