Simulation Theory tour discussion

[Hat]

Yeah I wouldn't mind that much if they actually played the songs they wanna play but during the Drones tour it became clear Muse actually wanted to play songs like Reapers, but didn't enjoy the audience reaction so they became more hesitant to do so.

[kueller]

And I get why Muse won't do it but it still angers me that they won't just say "fuck it" and play the songs they wanna play until the crowd that is literally only there to hear 2 songs takes the hint and fucks off.

 

If they wanna play the biggest venues in the world by catering to the people who will start a phone conversation if a non-single is played, then they can't really complain about people's reactions.

 

Or, like I said in a more elaborate way in this old post:

 

This acts as a kinda nice wrap up to my distaste of the small for-fans shows vs arena shows I had, which I still haven't changed my mind on. It feels like a compromise in place of Muse just saying "fuck it" in the general tour. But that's what I wanna see them do.

 

The US arena and amphitheatre tours last era got all of them (minus Sunburn) plus TAB, Map and AP. T2L’s US arenas had Butterflies, Map, Bliss, Sunburn, Fury, Agitated, New Born and NSC (not a fan favourite but v rare). Even for TR, which was notoriously lacking in variation, there was RBS, CE and Bliss. They could break pattern next tour, sure, but there’s nothing to suggest it based on past evidence.

 

Frequency matters more.

[Jobby]

Frequency matters more.

 

Oh yeah, I agree it would be nice to have songs like that sprinkled in more consistently, without demanding a slot at every gig or owt, so fans looking for them avoid having to play that lottery of hoping their gig is one of the relative few (‘specially w/ the distance needed to potentially travel somewhere like in the US). I just listed those in response to that specific point, though I can still understand why they’re less frequent over there even if I recognise it’s a shame dgmw.

[kueller]

I mean there's a level. Apocalypse Please was semi-common in the early US Drones leg. Sunburn also showed up here and there for T2L. But something like RBS only showed up once for each leg of The Resistance, and Fury only once like ever in the last 3 tours.

 

They're rarities for a reason (I never caught AP or Bliss) but for some it's less distance but more like saying you'd have a chance to see Glorious in the UK cause it showed up last tour.

[Jobby]

I mean there's a level. Apocalypse Please was semi-common in the early US Drones leg. Sunburn also showed up here and there for T2L. But something like RBS only showed up once for each leg of The Resistance, and Fury only once like ever in the last 3 tours.

 

They're rarities for a reason (I never caught AP or Bliss) but for some it's less distance but more like saying you'd have a chance to see Glorious in the UK cause it showed up last tour.

 

Once on the first leg but six on the second, so seven total in I think 32 US arena shows overall. It was actually weirdly way more common in the US than anywhere else (only once in the UK and Canada).

 

Obvs some songs will be more or less common than others, and some just once. Just wanted to show that songs in that vein do happen at the big gigs over there and consistently over the years, usually one or maybe two popping up a fair few times. Something like Glorious or Easily over here would’ve been like including Assassin ‘cos of the Mayan gig, tiny venue one-offs are naturally an extreme.

 

Edit: curious if it might actually be worth getting the stats for those songs on those tours to work out what the ratios are, results might be a bit surprising. maybe after work tomorrow I’ll do a v mini write up.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Jobby

[kueller]

Once on the first leg but six on the second, so seven total in I think 32 US arena shows overall. It was actually weirdly way more common in the US than anywhere else (only once in the UK and Canada).

 

Obvs some songs will be more or less common than others, and some just once. Just wanted to show that songs in that vein do happen at the big gigs over there and consistently over the years, usually one or maybe two popping up a fair few times. Something like Glorious or Easily over here would’ve been like including Assassin ‘cos of the Mayan gig, tiny venue one-offs are naturally an extreme.

 

Edit: curious if it might actually be worth getting the stats for those songs on those tours to work out what the ratios are, results might be a bit surprising. maybe after work tomorrow I’ll do a v mini write up.

 

I think it's a mix that AP was brought back as the song for the US basing off the Webster Hall show and all, and that the song died out early in the tour. So it only had a few European festivals but then the whole US leg where it was rather common.

 

I also still have my old IRC bot that does statistics so I can run those in a bit. Although it stopped logging mid way through the Drones tour.

[Nicklord]

Dead Star would get a huge reaction no matter if you know that one or not. Kinda like SS, that song always get a huge reaction and I feel like 50% of the people don't know that one. Or like Unsustainable at RiP show this year, nobody knew that one and it had big moshpits

 

I think Matt and the rest should make a difference between those rarities and some pop/acoustic/slow songs. Fast, aggressive songs will get a huge reaction every time and hardcore fans would be happy

[czuczu]

I mean there's a level. Apocalypse Please was semi-common in the early US Drones leg. Sunburn also showed up here and there for T2L. But something like RBS only showed up once for each leg of The Resistance, and Fury only once like ever in the last 3 tours.

 

They're rarities for a reason (I never caught AP or Bliss) but for some it's less distance but more like saying you'd have a chance to see Glorious in the UK cause it showed up last tour.

 

I totally dont get why AP was a rotation, its had a break for 3 album cycles so making it a staple would have been a real breath of fresh air..

[JessicaSarahS]

Fast, aggressive songs will get a huge reaction every time and hardcore fans would be happy

 

[kueller]

[YT]

[/YT]

[Hat]

Was just gonna link that

 

Here's another one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RU3G4RbC8Y

 

People who think the crowds go crazy for heavy rarities must not have seen very much of the past few tours.

[hyena17]

Ok, so I went on setlist.fm and made a list of rarities on the last 2 NA tours. I didn't include the amphitheater tour because afaik, I think Map was played at a couple shows but that's it.

 

T2L

San Diego - Bliss

LA - Bliss

LA - Map, Sunburn, Save Me

LA - Map

Oakland - Sunburn

Sac - 0

Portland - Map, Sunburn

Seattle - 0

Edm - Map

Calgary - 0

Vanc - 0

Sunrise - Bliss

Tampa - 0

Orlando - Map

Cinn - 0

Cleveland - 0

Detroit - Map, Sunburn

Chicago - Sunburn

Columbus - Map

Minn - Map, Sunburn

St. Louis - Sunburn (around this time the setlist dropped to 20 from 21, save for 2 gigs)

Tulsa - 0

Houston - Map

Dallas - Sunburn

Phoenix - Map

LV - Map

Toronto - Map

Toronto - Dead Star*

Boston - Map

Uncasville - Sunburn

NY - Map

NY - Sunburn, Dead Star*

NJ - 0

Montreal - Map

Montreal - Sunburn, Micro Cuts

---Fall leg---

Charlotte - Agitated

Atlanta - Map, Sunburn, Agitated

Nashville - NSC, US, Agitated

Pittsburgh - Map, Fury*, US

Philadelphia - 0

DC - US

SLC - Map, Sunburn, B&H, US

Denver - Sunburn, US

 

 

Drones

Houston - 0

Dallas - CE*

Phoenix - AP

Vanc - Bliss

Seattle - CE

Portland - Eurasia

Oakland - 0

LA - Eurasia

LA - 0

SD - AP

LV - Map

Chicago - Map

Detroit - Map

Toronto - CE and AP

Q city - Map and AP

Montreal - Bliss, Map, and AP

Montreal - CE, Map, Eurasia

Q city - Bliss, Map, Eurasia

Boston - Map, AP

NY - Map and AP

NJ - Map, Eurasia

Philly - Map, AP

DC - Map and CE* and AP

 

I put asterisks on the ones that were extenuating circumstances (fan request, etc). Red ones were played once.

 

So yeah, that's not that great, IMO. Especially that whole first half of the Drones tour. More than I expected though for AP.

 

Idk if Eurasia would be considered a rarity at all but I called it one for the Drones tour, idk maybe bc personally I really like it

Edited December 7, 2018 by hyena

[JessicaSarahS]

People who think the crowds go crazy for heavy rarities must not have seen very much of the past few tours.

 

Or we're in the front and don't get to see the back crowd.

[Hat]

Or we're in the front and don't get to see the back crowd.

Fair excuse.

[hyena17]

Or we're in the front and don't get to see the back crowd.

 

Yeah, that's the thing. The people up front are totally into it. The band just needs to pretend they are in a club for one song and only pay attention to the pit!

[Jobby]

Here’s a more condensed version I had in my head, just counting what I’d call ‘old fan favourites (that aren’t staples)’ over the last 3 album tours and looking purely at arenas and amphitheatres, no festivals:

 

The Resistance (2010-2011)

Songs counted: Ruled By Secrecy (7), Bliss (1), Citizen Erased (1), Butterflies & Hurricanes (1)

Total gigs: 34

Gigs where song(s) were played: 9 (26%)

 

The 2nd Law (2013)

Songs counted: Bliss (3), Sunburn (13), Map Of The Problematique (15), Dead Star (1), Agitated (4), Fury (1)

Total gigs: 36

Gigs where song(s) were played: 27 (75%)

 

Drones (2015-2017)

Songs counted: Bliss (4), Citizen Erased (3), Apocalypse Please (8), Map Of The Problematique (9), Stockholm Syndrome (8), Butterflies & Hurricanes (3)

Total gigs: 31

Gigs where song(s) were played: 23 (74%)

 

They really don’t do that bad over there - in this specific aspect at least

Edited December 7, 2018 by Jobby

[hyena17]

Here’s a more condensed version I had in my head, just counting what I’d call ‘old fan favourites (that aren’t staples)’ over the last 3 album tours and looking purely at arenas and amphitheatres, no festivals:

 

The Resistance (2010-2011)

Songs counted: Ruled By Secrecy (7), Bliss (1), Citizen Erased (1), Butterflies & Hurricanes (1)

Total gigs: 34

Gigs where song(s) were played: 9 (26%)

 

The 2nd Law (2013)

Songs counted: Bliss (3), Sunburn (13), Map Of The Problematique (15), Dead Star (1), Agitated (4), Fury (1)

Total gigs: 36

Gigs where song(s) were played: 27 (75%)

 

Drones (2015-2017)

Songs counted: Bliss (4), Citizen Erased (3), Apocalypse Please (8), Map Of The Problematique (9), Stockholm Syndrome (8), Butterflies & Hurricanes (3)

Total gigs: 31

Gigs where song(s) were played: 23 (74%)

 

They really don’t do that bad over there - in this specific aspect at least

 

75% of gigs really means "probably one, but maybe two if you're lucky!!" at every gig. There are a lot of zeroes in there for no reason at all.

 

And I wouldn't count SS as a rarity for Drones. it was played pretty regularly on the T2L tour.

 

Seems like the best bet for US fans if you want a rare song, is go to the gigs at the very end of a tour, go to Montreal, or organize some kind of fan request.

[Nigel_Tufnel]

Maybe it's just luck of the draw but I have trouble thinking of Map as a rarity because it's been played at just about every gig I've seen. I was also fortunate enough to see RbS, B&H and Sunburn at TR and T2L shows. Never seen them do AP, CE, Dead Star or Bliss. Hell, the Drones show that I saw didn't even have Plug In Baby or anything else from OoS.

[Jobby]

75% of gigs really means "probably one, but maybe two if you're lucky!!" at every gig. There are a lot of zeroes in there for no reason at all.

 

And I wouldn't count SS as a rarity for Drones. it was played pretty regularly on the T2L tour.

 

Yeah but...that’s the case everywhere? Most gigs getting one or two, odd standout getting three. I don’t really see what’s wrong with that. Surely it’s moving the goalposts a bit too much to say “they never play rarities/old fan faves at US arenas” and then “well yeah but only one or two at most gigs” like it’s not enough.

 

And the T2L tour isn’t the Drones tour though. Bliss was pretty regular on the Black Holes tour but it became more of a rarity on TR, it just happens with time. Things change w/ every tour and Stockholm slipped into that category with Drones, I mean it was played as much as AP.

 

I was also fortunate enough to see RbS

 

go awayyyyy

 

This is this first time I learned how much RBS was played over there on TR and, as it’s my longest running ‘want’ that’s always escaped me, am fumin’

Edited December 7, 2018 by Jobby

[kueller]

Hell, the Drones show that I saw didn't even have Plug In Baby or anything else from OoS.

 

Still never forgetting the weird part in The 2nd Law tour where they dropped Plug In Baby exclusively for the US. I still don't know what was up with that.

[Zepp]

The guitar was broken after the SBE show iirc

[Nigel_Tufnel]

go awayyyyy

 

This is this first time I learned how much RBS was played over there on TR and, as it’s my longest running ‘want’ that’s always escaped me, am fumin’

 

Yeah, you east-of-the-pond fans sure have it rough when it comes to Muse set lists. 😢

[Nigel_Tufnel]

Still never forgetting the weird part in The 2nd Law tour where they dropped Plug In Baby exclusively for the US. I still don't know what was up with that.

 

For sure. I haven't seen PIB live since The Resistance tour. My Drones show had nothing from OoS and T2L show got New Born only with the roulette wheel thing.

[Zepp]

Upon checking, PIB did indeed return in Toronto in April 2013 as soon as the Mirror got repaired

[kueller]

It was also not played at any of the US shows between Oakland and the SBE show despite it being a staple until then. The last performance before SBE was in Canada. And then it was brought back again in Canada and not played in the US until a few shows later.