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There's not listening to Muse for the lyrics, and struggling to listen to Muse because of the lyrics.

And they've definitely moved into the latter category for me.

 

Bad lyrics are still part of the song, and I can't really just turn off the language centers of my brain to ignore them.

 

It is interesting though how my tolerance for shitty political/conspiracy stuff changed so abruptly.

It had been something I could look past for the longest time, like an old uncle telling uncomfortable stories at the holidays, but now it all just feels too real and dangerous, and I can't bring myself to just put up with it.

 

Haven't listened to Drones since at least September, and I really did love the album initially. :(

 

Probably in the same boat. I can skip past poor lyrics aslong as the song sounds good. Not bothered about guitar wankery or how good musically it is, probably why i have enjoyed Muse over the years. I like Matts Voice, and i do like the blend between Rock and pop.

 

Can relate to thought contagion. From my POV, ive completely switched off from the news recently. Brexit has numbed me, it was a messy referendum and nothing has happened since. Goverment is in a stale chaos,opposition isnt up to much, the third parties are irrelevant. Nothing is happening and both parties are content with everything going tits up for thier own beliefs. Also the news is really grim, so id rather do something else than get angry at a screen.

 

Everyone is carrying on as normal, and getting angry and upset is just a waste of time. Why put yourself under stress and worrying about the world, when all you can do is influence yourself to become better and happier.

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I also think the vocals in the verses of Thought Contagion are some of the worst Matt's done. Can't quite explain it, but he just sounds terrible to me. Not in a "his voice is going" sort of way, just in the delivery.

The most jarring and unappealing his voice has ever been to me.

 

Same.

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Here old man, check this out: https://www.google.se/search?q=zedd

Tbh, I still don't think I learned enough. But then actually listening might have helped. :chuckle:

 

Given that his Wikipedia article mentioned bringing together pop and classical elements in some of his previous work, I'm guessing that might have piqued Matt's attentions.

It never seemed as heavy handed on the pre-Resistance stuff, but maybe that's mostly nostalgia. Anger at the government in the face of the Iraq war wasn't misplaced, either.

It was mostly stuff Matt did and said that were a bit eyerolly, but were easier to just ignore when listening to the music.

It was also a time when it was a lot easier for me to just tolerate someone else's insane sounding beliefs, before things got really bad precisely because those types of people weren't taken seriously.

 

Resistance era stuff got really thick with it, but I disliked the album quite a bit in the first place, and thought the conspiracy stuff helped snuff all the emotion out of the material.

 

Drones somehow did a good job of being a semi-return to the earlier emotive stuff, while still having the immature "political" lyrics.

It just reminds me too much of all the bullshit going on in the world, much of which I don't have the luxury of just shutting my eyes to, and the tone of it sucks a lot of the enjoyment out of it now.

 

These two new songs, I just don't know. Even ignoring the rough lyrics, I just can't find anything to connect with in them at all.

I'd honestly struggle to come up with something that I thought was appealing in them.

Just so completely not my thing, I guess.

Maybe it is as much a timing thing as said, given that in the time since Drones came out, the political climate has made a truly unhinged turn.

 

To me, the conspiracy stuff used to feel more prevalent in interviews than in lyrics, even if it did seep into the odd track (Exo-Politics, MK Ultra). There was a fair amount of subtlety going on, or at least more than is now, whereas I do agree the loss of subtlety compared to the first 4 albums has been a problem of late.

 

But I never felt Drones had that much conspiracy theory stuff, or least as much as before, but then that only seems to be that there was a fair wedge of things about the use of drone warfare in 2012-15 in pop culture and the news, and I guess it just added to that lexicon. Personally, I did like the Q magazine writer's observation that it was a break-up album wrapped up in heavy duty geo-political metaphor, but at face value, it does tie into the stereotype that a lot of Muse lyrics are simplistic political allegories.

 

But then that's my opinion. I guess if your media has a lot more nasty voices shouting in lines that copy that ethos, it makes it harder to listen to.

 

I'm still giving Thought Contagion a go, but I'm not really getting it. The embryo of something I would like is there, but it never really gets to something truly satisfying. Oh well.

Just listened to this interview: https://itunes.apple.com/us/post/sa.51ab4dc0-1307-11e8-9678-df68aeaa68be

 

Around the 11 minute mark Matt describes a new song called Algorithm as a blend of romantic classical piano with 80s synth computer game music. Sounds interesting, I wonder if that'll be the next song released?

I saw that cited on MuseWiki, which has something of elements of Origin (maybe bits of Bliss and Space Dementia) to it. But more than anything, Matt maybe doing a more complex piano piece for the first time in a while would be welcome.

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I never felt Drones had that much conspiracy theory stuff

 

Yeah, but on the other hand, Matt described the theme of the whole album, with typical subtlety, as 'the world is run by Drones utilizing Drones to turn us all into Drones' which is still pretty heavy on the whole mind-control rubbish. That's been there since at least BHAR though. It doesn't look like it's really going anywhere either with TC coming out on a similar theme.

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Probably in the same boat. I can skip past poor lyrics aslong as the song sounds good. Not bothered about guitar wankery or how good musically it is, probably why i have enjoyed Muse over the years. I like Matts Voice, and i do like the blend between Rock and pop.

 

Can relate to thought contagion. From my POV, ive completely switched off from the news recently. Brexit has numbed me, it was a messy referendum and nothing has happened since. Goverment is in a stale chaos,opposition isnt up to much, the third parties are irrelevant. Nothing is happening and both parties are content with everything going tits up for thier own beliefs. Also the news is really grim, so id rather do something else than get angry at a screen.

 

Everyone is carrying on as normal, and getting angry and upset is just a waste of time. Why put yourself under stress and worrying about the world, when all you can do is influence yourself to become better and happier.

 

I think there's definitely a conversation to be had about how we consume news, how outlets monetize outrage and manipulate their output to become addictive, and about finding a balance between being aware and active and being obsessed. Absolutely.

But, "turn off the news and things are just fine" isn't that. And it's not the correct answer for the problem as a whole.

If it works for some people, whether that's due to privilege, mental health, or whatnot, that's fine. But, in the greater context of what's going on in the world, it's not the truth, and it's not the answer.

 

Brexit is also a fabulous example.

Matt was an advocate for it, and now that it's created havoc and misery for much of the country, his answer is to just stop paying attention?

Doesn't sit well with me.

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Probably in the same boat. I can skip past poor lyrics aslong as the song sounds good. Not bothered about guitar wankery or how good musically it is, probably why i have enjoyed Muse over the years. I like Matts Voice, and i do like the blend between Rock and pop.

 

Can relate to thought contagion. From my POV, ive completely switched off from the news recently. Brexit has numbed me, it was a messy referendum and nothing has happened since. Goverment is in a stale chaos,opposition isnt up to much, the third parties are irrelevant. Nothing is happening and both parties are content with everything going tits up for thier own beliefs. Also the news is really grim, so id rather do something else than get angry at a screen.

 

Everyone is carrying on as normal, and getting angry and upset is just a waste of time. Why put yourself under stress and worrying about the world, when all you can do is influence yourself to become better and happier.

I feel you man, I haven't watched/read/listened to the news for about 8 months now and feel much the better for it. I felt like I was getting sucked into a lot of the partisan us vs them elements of it and even started posting on political message boards and things before I realised that it was all a massive waste of time.

 

There will be those that accuse you of sticking your head in the sand and those who insist that it is 'important to stay informed' but just ignore them.

 

After several months of just completely avoiding the news (I've also started avoiding sports and celebrity news as well because it's often linked to mainstream news) you have an epiphany and realise that:

 

1. All of the news you see/read/hear about is CURATED for maximum shock value to keep you glued to the 'developing' story and make you CONSUME even more news. Ever wondered why the majority of news stories are negative? It's because we tend to get riled up about things and that makes us take sides which in turn makes you consume even more news to give you self-validation on your chosen point of view.

2. It's dissected into easily digestible chunks with shiny banners and BREAKING NEWS headlines. Stories and 'analysis' by reporters are often shallow with poor journalistic standards.

3. 99.9% of the news is stuff that you can't actually do anything about (posting angry status updates on Facebook/Twitter doesn't count as doing something). Being able to repeat in pigeon fashion the story you heard on breakfast news that morning around the water cooler at work doesn't count as being 'informed' about something either. You haven't delved into the issue yourself or by your own motivation, you've just been told that this is something you must get annoyed about.

4. News is INFOTAINTMENT with an ever increasing emphasis on entertainment these days. It's designed to occupy ideal minds and to make sure you stick through the ad break to find out about 'COMING UP....THIS FOOD MIGHT CAUSE CANCER' etc.

5. Things don't actually happen as quickly as the media would like to portray. In a world of 24/7 rolling news this is often glaringly obvious with airhead reporters just trying to fill airtime with little actual substance and the rise in 'clickbait' style articles that are infecting more and more of the internet these days.

6. You still pick up things that are genuinely important. I'm sure I would hear about it if the USA actually did invade North Korea for example.

 

If you haven't watched Network (1976) then I highly recommend it. In many ways it was way ahead of it's time and predicted the rise of a lot of this stuff.

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Why would you want to find out about things after the fact, though?

That's the sort of passive, defeatist attitude that sees less than half of our population turn out to vote.

The attitude of "nothing really changes and it'll be okay no matter what" works great... right up until the moment it doesn't, and something awful happens to you or those you love, and then it's too late.

 

No one's saying 24/7 news is healthy for anything, and like I've said, there's a discussion to be had about the news becoming what it has, but being smart about what media you consume, being objective, and being aware is critical for a functioning democracy.

Why do you think people in power are crying about "fake news"? They WANT you to ignore it.

That's a huge irony about TC; it falls for the exact thing the "powers that be" (to quote Matt) want us to do.

 

I'd much rather be informed and take whatever actions I can to help prevent things like unnecessary war, loss of health care or other ability to care for themselves from our most vulnerable citizens, or kids being gunned down at school.

Even if all I can do is show up and vote when applicable and try to convince others, it can make a difference.

Edited by SerpentSatellite

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I'm a journalist, and two things spring to mind:

 

1. Matt's attitude is shit. And ignorant.

2. Most preconceptions about 'news' being bandied around here are applicable to about 0.1% of the news media.

 

EDIT: SS above makes some good points though.

Edited by Clunge

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I feel you man, I haven't watched/read/listened to the news for about 8 months now and feel much the better for it. I felt like I was getting sucked into a lot of the partisan us vs them elements of it and even started posting on political message boards and things before I realised that it was all a massive waste of time.

 

There will be those that accuse you of sticking your head in the sand and those who insist that it is 'important to stay informed' but just ignore them.

 

After several months of just completely avoiding the news (I've also started avoiding sports and celebrity news as well because it's often linked to mainstream news) you have an epiphany and realise that:

 

1. All of the news you see/read/hear about is CURATED for maximum shock value to keep you glued to the 'developing' story and make you CONSUME even more news. Ever wondered why the majority of news stories are negative? It's because we tend to get riled up about things and that makes us take sides which in turn makes you consume even more news to give you self-validation on your chosen point of view.

2. It's dissected into easily digestible chunks with shiny banners and BREAKING NEWS headlines. Stories and 'analysis' by reporters are often shallow with poor journalistic standards.

3. 99.9% of the news is stuff that you can't actually do anything about (posting angry status updates on Facebook/Twitter doesn't count as doing something). Being able to repeat in pigeon fashion the story you heard on breakfast news that morning around the water cooler at work doesn't count as being 'informed' about something either. You haven't delved into the issue yourself or by your own motivation, you've just been told that this is something you must get annoyed about.

4. News is INFOTAINTMENT with an ever increasing emphasis on entertainment these days. It's designed to occupy ideal minds and to make sure you stick through the ad break to find out about 'COMING UP....THIS FOOD MIGHT CAUSE CANCER' etc.

5. Things don't actually happen as quickly as the media would like to portray. In a world of 24/7 rolling news this is often glaringly obvious with airhead reporters just trying to fill airtime with little actual substance and the rise in 'clickbait' style articles that are infecting more and more of the internet these days.

6. You still pick up things that are genuinely important. I'm sure I would hear about it if the USA actually did invade North Korea for example.

 

If you haven't watched Network (1976) then I highly recommend it. In many ways it was way ahead of it's time and predicted the rise of a lot of this stuff.

 

How are you this proud of not knowing what goes on around you? :stunned:

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I feel you man, I haven't watched/read/listened to the news for about 8 months now and feel much the better for it. I felt like I was getting sucked into a lot of the partisan us vs them elements of it and even started posting on political message boards and things before I realised that it was all a massive waste of time.

 

There will be those that accuse you of sticking your head in the sand and those who insist that it is 'important to stay informed' but just ignore them.

 

After several months of just completely avoiding the news (I've also started avoiding sports and celebrity news as well because it's often linked to mainstream news) you have an epiphany and realise that:

 

1. All of the news you see/read/hear about is CURATED for maximum shock value to keep you glued to the 'developing' story and make you CONSUME even more news. Ever wondered why the majority of news stories are negative? It's because we tend to get riled up about things and that makes us take sides which in turn makes you consume even more news to give you self-validation on your chosen point of view.

2. It's dissected into easily digestible chunks with shiny banners and BREAKING NEWS headlines. Stories and 'analysis' by reporters are often shallow with poor journalistic standards.

3. 99.9% of the news is stuff that you can't actually do anything about (posting angry status updates on Facebook/Twitter doesn't count as doing something). Being able to repeat in pigeon fashion the story you heard on breakfast news that morning around the water cooler at work doesn't count as being 'informed' about something either. You haven't delved into the issue yourself or by your own motivation, you've just been told that this is something you must get annoyed about.

4. News is INFOTAINTMENT with an ever increasing emphasis on entertainment these days. It's designed to occupy ideal minds and to make sure you stick through the ad break to find out about 'COMING UP....THIS FOOD MIGHT CAUSE CANCER' etc.

5. Things don't actually happen as quickly as the media would like to portray. In a world of 24/7 rolling news this is often glaringly obvious with airhead reporters just trying to fill airtime with little actual substance and the rise in 'clickbait' style articles that are infecting more and more of the internet these days.

6. You still pick up things that are genuinely important. I'm sure I would hear about it if the USA actually did invade North Korea for example.

 

If you haven't watched Network (1976) then I highly recommend it. In many ways it was way ahead of it's time and predicted the rise of a lot of this stuff.

 

Well, yes. Much of the American News industry is designed around ratings, viewership and clicks. You're not wrong about that. That doesn't mean what they tell you is fictional or untrue, depending on the outlet(s) of your choice, of course.

 

So stay away from online and tv news. Listen to NPR and read some newspapers. It's important and, in a way, I feel it is a responsibility to be informed in a democracy. If you don't know how politics affect real people or the environment, you won't be able to participate in the democratic process with educated compassion, you will only be able to think about yourself and your own situation. Which, if you ask me, is a rather selfish way to go through life.

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^^This.

 

Yes, rolling news coverage (especially in the US) is overbearing, but it's a modicum of the news output. Look at the way SO many US publications are fearlessly trying to hold Trump to account. Being branded 'fake news', etc, should be a badge of honour.

 

Avoiding all news coverage is infinitely more damaging to your own outlook, as well as that of democracy/society itself. Just turning it off is an admission of defeat. You can't fight or rally against a narrative if you don't participate in it - and there are plenty of other narratives available if you just look a little further for them. Someone somewhere out there is always doing the journalism you want to read.

 

Thought Contagion is absolutely classic Bellamy - take on a societally vital issue and treat it with derision, contempt and ignorance. Cover it with such limited scope it is practically worthless. Uprising is the same. It jarrs so horribly in a pop scenario (and that's not to say pop music isn't a vessel for political statements, of course).

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How are you this proud of not knowing what goes on around you? :stunned:

 

Well I've been news free for 8 months now and I'm happier than I've been in a long time. :)

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I also think the vocals in the verses of Thought Contagion are some of the worst Matt's done. Can't quite explain it, but he just sounds terrible to me. Not in a "his voice is going" sort of way, just in the delivery.

The most jarring and unappealing his voice has ever been to me.

 

Same.

 

Agreed. :(

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Saw that ManiaMuse had posted and thought to myself “Wouldn’t surprise me if they only replied to Fabri’s post” and sure enough! But hey, I get it, the world is a much better place when you can just pretend that you’re the only one in it!

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Agreed. :(

 

It reminds me of the Imagine Dragons formula, especially obvious in their new "Whatever It Takes" (or whatever) where the verses are increasingly horrendous, but fuck it, because the chorus is upbeat, anthemic, and catchy as hell. (And startlingly similar to their other tracks.)

Except, in Thought Contagion, the chorus isn't that good either.

 

It's like the style being aped by someone who doesn't understand what's popular about that style. So, I guess, very Muse.

 

Saw that ManiaMuse had posted and thought to myself “Wouldn’t surprise me if they only replied to Fabri’s post” and sure enough! But hey, I get it, the world is a much better place when you can just pretend that you’re the only one in it!

 

I guess, tbf, that's a mindset that's given a lot of value in the US. Somehow patriotism and "freedom" got conflated with bullshit Ayn Rand worship, and the cult of "fuck everyone else."

 

I think, and sorry to offend some (not sorry,) but if being aware of what's going on in the country, the world, or your community causes someone such mental distress that they can't live their live without shutting it out, the problem lies with that individual.

Maybe one needs to take a step back and figure out how to be aware and consume news in a more healthy manner, without letting it take over their whole mental state 100% of the time.

Maybe there are deeper problems to delve into.

 

Like with health issues, mental or physical, what's going on around us doesn't go away when we hide under the covers and create a falsely secure reality for ourselves.

It's not a healthy way to live anymore than watching 24 hour news is.

 

In the context of Muse, that sort of attitude feels as if the X-Files concludes with Mulder admitting he knew his sister was killed by the door to door salesman the entire time, and everything was just for the lols because he was bored, and everyone was stupid to believe him.

It's a tad jarring that the time there really *IS* something disturbing going on in the political climate, suddenly Mr Terror Storm, the royal family is lizard people, the government is brainwashing you to be an asshole Bellamy suddenly says "oh, nothing to see here."

Maybe it's all the exposure to conspiracy theories, but one could wonder if now that things are shifting politically in his favor, he's not employing the same tactics to try and make people complacent. :chuckle:

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In the context of Muse, that sort of attitude feels as if the X-Files concludes with Mulder admitting he knew his sister was killed by the door to door salesman the entire time, and everything was just for the lols because he was bored, and everyone was stupid to believe him.

It's a tad jarring that the time there really *IS* something disturbing going on in the political climate, suddenly Mr Terror Storm, the royal family is lizard people, the government is brainwashing you to be an asshole Bellamy suddenly says "oh, nothing to see here."

Maybe it's all the exposure to conspiracy theories, but one could wonder if now that things are shifting politically in his favor, he's not employing the same tactics to try and make people complacent. :chuckle:

YES! Goddamn this has annoyed me for so long. People who are the first to believe every conspiracy theory. Everyone is out to get them, the government is controlling everything they do and the strings are being pulled by the Illuminati.

 

But then someone suggests that hey, maybe the world is a white patriarchy and racism is institutionalized, and suddenly the previously vocal group goes "do you have any evidence to support that? That's like...serious accusations. Not everyone is out to get you you know...so anyway, as I was saying about the jews"

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Well I've been news free for 8 months now and I'm happier than I've been in a long time. :)

 

Why? How were you able to find happiness that way?

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It depends on the song though, I guess. I don't mind the occasional song like MK Ultra because I don't really take it seriously, but then there's simpler stuff like Uprising that just feels like there's hardly any depth to it. Maybe it's because I prefer songs that don't really feel like they're referring to a particular time or any political situation, so the lyrics for me would be more abstract. Matt's talked about wanting to make timeless music recently, but unfortunately his lyrics are going the other way. They're becoming more and more derivative of whatever he thinks he's seeing on the news, which lyrically then usually puts me off any band.

MK Ultra is a real thing that happened, though. And I think it's done pretty well.

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I want to second what Little Animal hinted at and extend what I mentioned before regarding the news and marginalized people, because I have mostly in the past few years drifted away from TV and a lot of their online counterparts in favor of something more curated to what I at least consider to be respectable quality.

 

Had I remained with the standard TV news cycle, which is still massively popular, I do think I would have a much different and more fearful view of the world. This is at least based off the times I do end up in front of a standard news program. There was the mention that ignoring problems is how Trump got elected, but I also remember how much attention Trump got back when he was just entering the race because his controversy got more views. I remember how every time I'd see a major station cover

it made me question how idiotic they could sound to topics I know less of. I remember how in the aftermath of Charlottesville I saw more features on antifa, because they're scary and masked despite having no centralization or major political influence.

 

Even recently I notice the nationwide shock as high schoolers ask politicians about their ties to the NRA while remembering the stations now covering this were then more interested in spamming the kids for photo credits while being shot at.

 

I don't discredit the field as the administration has done, because there's plenty of counter-examples to what I gave. But behind it all I don't get the feeling I'd really be informed. It feels more like the news is selling outrage and debate rather than properly engaging with it. It leaves the hard questions dumbed down, the biggest problems glossed over, and the final points made just digestible enough that you won't leave your couch.

 

In this regard I would agree more with the Muse song, but with the addition to engage yourself more instead of less. Maybe Bellamy would agree, but there's honestly not nearly enough out there to get a true stance out of him. Here I'm more replying to other users.

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At this point, the conversation has become much more to do with Matt’s irreverent public attitude in promo interviews etc. than the actual lyrics of Thought Contagion. There isn’t a specific implication in the song that if you turn off the news you might find the world more bearable. It seems to be a much more general comment on “the spread of dangerous ideas”, as mentioned on Absolute Radio. Matt even seemed to acknowledge (in passing) that he’d struggled to find as neat an explanation in previous interviews - and I’d agree with others that he was a little careless.

 

Matt’s always been pretty vague and taken a scattershot approach to these sorts of subject, though. It’s likely that if he was pushed for more detail on the source of whatever “dangerous ideas” he’s discussing, he’d include agenda-driven figures in the public sphere, politicians, preachers, conspiracy theorists … right the way through to some of the individuals we encounter in everyday life - abusive personalities, ‘emotional vampires’ and so on. It’s about corruptibility - the extent to which we’re susceptible to paranoia, neurosis and faulty thinking, as far as I can tell. Any instance where a person becomes conscious of creeping thoughts and doubts sown by others - adopting dumbed-down theories as their own, getting drawn into toxic language games - repeating and spreading popular jargon, psychobabble and invented phrases (i.e. “thought contagion” itself and some of the others I’ve used in this message :p).

 

I'm not necessarily defending all of the lyrics - just trying to make a distinction!

Edited by LoganMH

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The lyrics are so vague we only really have Matt's explanation on what they're supposed to mean.

Stuff like "Withdraw before you're out of time, a clean slate" also support his explanation.

 

It's a complex, sensitive issue that doesn't lend itself well to being dealt with in a song anyways.

 

Plus, if we ignore what he's said about the song and just pay attention to the lyrics, we're back to that "final solution" line. :chuckle:

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