Album Eight: Simulation Theory

[MartianSpaghettiRider]

I'm already a little wary as to the mix of producers, given this'll be the 3rd one involved after the ones at the desk for the first 2 singles. There's a difference in sound clarity between Dig Down and Thought Contagion, as the latter has a bit of a muddier mix, and I do wonder if this could lead to the upcoming album being even more over the place than it would've been if it was just same producer and different genres.

 

If we're just talking about different productions, yes. About the sound, it might actually be less so. In DD and TC you can make out some similar elements in both if their arrangements, like the electronic drums and the synth parts that gives them a vague hip hop flavour in some points.

 

Anyway, the fact they'll be working with Timbaland has been quite of a shocking news for me to read. I thought I'd never see "Muse" and "Timbaland" put together in the same sentence, and I don't know what to make of this...

It could be genius, it could be a complete dogs**t. We'll see. The idea of them experimenting with hip hop intrigues me, though.

[That Little Animal]

Now we just need a collaboration with Kylie Minogue and the album is complete. All the hip kids will love it.

[FabriPav]

50 Cent too!

[Hopix]

Fuck sake

[Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out]

I knew they'd go the hip-hop route eventually. Honestly interested to hear what comes of this if they really go for it. Not saying I'll probably love it, unless Matt has some stroke of genius with how to make hip-hop infused rock that no one's ever heard before and that's still good. But like, I don't begrudge them this experiment no matter how it turns out. This has been coming for a while.

 

Also if Matt raps, my money is on it being trash, but we'll see I guess, lol.

[Bumpypotato]

I love hip hop, but I can't see Muse doing it well. Once, maybe, definitely not now.

[frozenbanana]

It's gonna be as bad as that Arctic Monkeys cover of Hold On, We're Going Home. R&B and Hip Hop are areas most guitar bands should stay as far away from as possible

[EveryToilet]

As a massive Chris Cornell fan, Timbaland is a bit of a trigger word for me.

[Hat]

SweEeEeeeet reevenge

[forevermusic]

If we're just talking about different productions, yes. About the sound, it might actually be less so. In DD and TC you can make out some similar elements in both if their arrangements, like the electronic drums and the synth parts that gives them a vague hip hop flavour in some points.

 

Anyway, the fact they'll be working with Timbaland has been quite of a shocking news for me to read. I thought I'd never see "Muse" and "Timbaland" put together in the same sentence, and I don't know what to make of this...

It could be genius, it could be a complete dogs**t. We'll see. The idea of them experimenting with hip hop intrigues me, though.

I do agree that some synthy sounds are similar for both Dig Down and Thought Contagion, but there's a production feeling in the latter more reminiscent of the production on Absolution and Black Holes, which is somewhat faithful given Rich Costey's involvement in those LP's.

 

There's been hip-hop elements in some previous tracks like Madness or UD (although there's an argument that some of those sounds are in Supermassive Black Hole, not least given the band talked up a Kanye West influence at the time). But a full-on hip-hop-rock track is an interesting challenge, assuming it makes the cut.

[serpentsatellite]

There's some really good pop and hip hop music out there, the same as there's some really crap rock music out there.

It's nothing to do with the genre, and everything to do with the artist being able to pull it off.

 

Since I've started to be really concerned about Muse's ability to do that even in their normal genres (especially if they consider TC to be a "more traditional" track) I'm not terribly confident they can pull off the others.

 

And I just feel like the band's aesthetic right now... they've moved on from quirky rock band, to something that went way too far down the road into overblown.

imo, no matter what they try and get into, as far as the mainstream goes, Matt's just going to come off as a bit of a poser, like someone's old dad desperately trying to be cool.

At least if they don't shake this attitude of taking everything as a laugh, while still managing to be incredibly un - self-aware.

Are they just going to flounce into these genres without actually taking them seriously?

 

The problem isn't them trying different genres, it's them doing so while just acting like obnoxious tourists.

[FabriPav]

Matt has just become completely tasteless in his songwriting.

[That Little Animal]

As a massive Chris Cornell fan, Timbaland is a bit of a trigger word for me.

 

Oh wow, somehow I never heard any of that stuff or I managed to completely block it out. Just had a listen and it sounds exactly like what I expected. And so dated. Outdated.

[jonisdead]

I don't know if it's been mentioned already but the fact that Matt's doing a track with Zedd has me more upset than a track with Timbaland.

[MartianSpaghettiRider]

I don't know if it's been mentioned already but the fact that Matt's doing a track with Zedd has me more upset than a track with Timbaland.

 

It won't be Muse related, though.

[jonisdead]

It won't be Muse related, though.

 

Never say never... regardless what artist releases it, it's a safe bet to assume Matt and his songwriting will be influenced by it.

[Bs]

it's a safe bet to assume Matt and his songwriting will be influenced by it

 

As much as I would usually echo this, you could just as easily say Matt and his songwriting will be affected by these request shows that they've been doing, rocking out to some of the old classics and obscure fan favourites, which are completely different. It doesn't necessarily mean that's going to happen though.

[jonisdead]

As much as I would usually echo this, you could just as easily say Matt and his songwriting will be affected by these request shows that they've been doing, rocking out to some of the old classics and obscure fan favourites, which are completely different. It doesn't necessarily mean that's going to happen though.

 

I think it's less of a leap to say that recent songwriting efforts will influence further songwriting efforts, rather than rediscovery of music you wrote over a decade ago.

[Bs]

I think it's less of a leap to say that recent songwriting efforts will influence further songwriting efforts, rather than rediscovery of music you wrote over a decade ago.

 

Good point well made, I suppose, but I have heard other bands say before after performing some old material for the first time in a while that they were then influenced by that for their next album. I don't know about Muse though, haha! They seem to be influenced by just about everything these days...

[serpentsatellite]

Sort of an amalgam of what Matt last heard on the radio and the last book he skimmed, really.

[sade]

There's some really interesting discussion here about the lyrics and Matt as a lyricists.

For me Muse lyrics have always been something to be ignored. I actually don't hear them, even if I listen to them and can sing along to them. I know this is a privilege native speakers in particular don't have, and it doesn't extend to just Muse when I listen to music. Maybe that makes me (wilfully) ignorant, I don't know. But because of this, Muse songs, lyrics-wise, have always been more or less a vague lump of "the song about Matt being angry at the Man", or "Matt's worried about the environment and/or the lifestyle based on consumption", "the anti-war song", rather than bothering with the nuances.

 

So to me, when Thought Contagion came out, to me it was just a lump of "oh now a Muse song about false information spread in the media, how topical :rolleyes:". But people in this thread have actually brought a very poingnant aspect that Matt himself really hasn't ever come forward to explain his past about buying into and spreading just the type of conspirary theory nonsense that he now seems to acknowledge as problematic. Like That Little Animal, I've assumed his wolrdviews are a result of a somewhat uneducated mind (possibly combined with some substance-intake and living the rather out-of-touch life of a celebrity), and I'm sure he's grown mentally with age. But a topic like the one in TC would have been particularly interesting being handled from someone like Matt's point of view, because you could actually make the argument that he- probably unwittingly- has been someone who has laid ground for the rise of the fringe and false narratives being accepted as valid narratives(as one small part of a huge phenomenon, but still). I mean, [your chosen higher power here] help us all, there are people who actually listen to what he says and buy into it. Instead, the lyrics of TC seem to point at Matt discussing others being "infected", and his solution is just to turn off the TV. For the reasons discussed in this thread, this is obviously an approach only people with privilege can take benefit from.¨

 

I think there is a point in there somewhere when Matt mentions the role of networks like MSNBC and CNN being "obsessed" with Trump. Usually focusing on something in a continuously negative manner results in the viewer sympathy sifting to the subject who may now be viewed as an underdog. Also, the constant narrative of outrageousness also somewhat paradoxically actually normalises the outrageous acts. This is of course absurd with Trump, who by all standards is unfit to be president and is downright dangerous to the stability of the world. However, what those networks do actually in the long run plays into the hands of the right and the alt-right, which again is absurd. Now, I don't have the answers for how you balance the importance of bringing forth the important news stories and keeping the public informed of what their leaders are doing, and what I discussed before. Why I am mentioning this is that someone brought up whether Matt actually has some fringe right symphaties.Personally, I find that hard to believe, and see his words as more stemming from ignorance. At least this was in his twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/MattBellamy/status/897583876285112321

 

All of this being said, I actually enjoy TC- I just keep thinking it as a catchy pop song.

Edited March 4, 2018 by sade

[serpentsatellite]

That Trump Tweet of Matt's actually surprised me, tbh, because Matt's prior communications were just along the lines of "it'll be fine, Congress won't let anything terrible happen" which shows his incredibly naïve understanding of American politics and the damaging forces that led to the election of Trump in the first place.

 

And also Matt's clear nationalist stances, which he was talking about in interviews as recently as last year. (And I suppose it's hard for me to think of nationalists as anything other than far right, right now.)

Brexit, for example, became heavily anti-immigrant in nature for a lot of the population, the same as the nationalist movement in the US has been heavily protectionist (and bigoted.)

So, seeing Matt call Trump a Nazi made me wonder if he was really not self aware (or educated) enough to see that one couldn't be pro-Brexit (for example) with caveats like "well, except for THAT" part...

Sometimes you have to say that things aren't worth the cost, no matter how much you agree with one of the parts of the whole, or admit that you're supporting something ugly out of selfishness.

And this is what completely went wrong with the US; the checks and balances failed and people embraced some really evil beliefs.

 

(The "king" line in DD is a bit scary now that Trump has suggested it would be cool for the US to move to a "ruler for life" system...)

 

But yeah, mostly I'm just a bit in awe of how un self-aware telling people not to buy into "thought contagion" is coming from someone who's dealt in conspiracy and anti-government themes for a very long time.

[MartianSpaghettiRider]

Meh, I always thought that all the conspiracy and dystopian stuff were just part of an act to build a certain image of himself and thus appear "cool" to the musical world. Many love to buy into the "eccentric rockstar" cliché, so that wouldn't surprise me.

On the other hand, he also seemed genuinely fascinated with those sort of things, not to the point of believing them, but rather using them in a heavily ironic fashion in his lyrics to "mock" them and point them out as paranoid and manic constructs. Maybe it's just me, but that's part of the appeal that BHAR had when I listened to it for the first time, coupled with the great music, of course.

[serpentsatellite]

If it were just an act to give the band a little cool factor... wouldn't that basically be intentionally spreading "fake news"?

[Hat]

If it were just an act to give the band a little cool factor... wouldn't that basically be intentionally spreading "fake news"?

Was just gonna say