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I feel so lost. Thought Contagion is not amazing, but not everything Muse does will be. It's not this horrific monstrosity a lot of the board seem to be saying it is. It's a solid 3/5, maybe more for me.

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I feel so lost. Thought Contagion is not amazing, but not everything Muse does will be. It's not this horrific monstrosity a lot of the board seem to be saying it is. It's a solid 3/5, maybe more for me.

 

If this board can agree on anything, it won't have anything to do with recent Muse output.

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It's ok, but what's frustrating is that I get the sense this had the makings of being a very cool song. I can see where it would be similar to Fury. Makes me concerned about this method they're trying of doing one song at a time rather than an album.

 

Still, I'll take this type of direction over more Madness type songs any day. Oh and I like the video. It's always better when Muse go for goofy over serious.

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Also, to all the naysayers, you're allowed to dislike the track but don't kid yourself, Muse have always made fairly commercial music, in conjunction with moments that are left field on albums...

 

Uh, left field... Easy now.

 

The difference between the past and now is that Matt has forgotten how to write a good song.

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The 2nd and 3rd choruses happen in such rapid succession I only just clicked they were actually separate.

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That "final solution" line is a bit shocking, in that, as others have said, HOW many people worked on this song and no one mentioned it as a problem???

Then again, that Kylie Jenner Pepsi ad and that H&M ad made it to publication...

 

Unfortunately, the lyrics are so vague, that it's actually tough to be sure that Matt didn't know exactly what it meant, and to interpret the context that he's using it in.

Alongside lyrics about "false beliefs" "wipe the slate" and knowing that he's written a negative song about "globalists" I'm not entirely comfortable with it.

 

This isn't really an issue of "everyone being offended;" it's referencing a horrific genocide in a manner that's not just irreverent, but way too open to interpretation.

And it's just plain and simple not a good climate for it right now.

^This.

 

The idea of it being played live, encouraging thousands of people to shout along "brace yourself for the Final Solution" just turns my stomach. Whatever their intent, it's not something you glibly fuck around with. I will be amazed if there isn't a massive public backlash.

 

Edit: I believe it was a line written from a position of racial genocide being something to fear amid the rise of the alt-right, Trump and 'alternative facts' - and Matt's Rolling Stone interview and other lyrics seem to suggest that. But even then, the lyrics are worded troublingly ambiguously. It could as easily be interpreted as being the ravings of a white supremacist angered by 'liberal PC fake news'. Especially as Matt has flirted with elements of the alt-right such as Alex Jones and Brexit in recent years. It's kind of left to fit in with whichever mindset you approach it from on an issue you simply cannot do that with.

Edited by Static Shadows

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I don’t think there was any intent to cause any harm. If the “Final Solution” line is intended to be a reference to the Holocaust, then I think that the “war crimes” line earlier on in the song clearly shows that he is repulsed by the events (as any human should be)

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I'm interested that the 'bitten by' parts seem to be so popular. I think that part is what turned me off the most. It's so repetitive and such an annoying lyric.

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I think it's pretty obvious that Matt isn't condoning extremism or anti semitism, but the reference feels tacky as fuck. If you're going to reference genocide and relate it to modern politics, a little nuance would go a long way.

 

The 2nd and 3rd choruses happen in such rapid succession I only just clicked they were actually separate.

 

I just clicked to the same thing. Odd.

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I did go with my anger after hearing it for the first time there. But I expect that is something a lot of people will feel.

 

It does strike me as catastrophically clumsy rather than maliciously ill intentioned. But if there's one issue you would not want to be clumsy over... Their lyrical ambiguity is the reason why they have attracted fans like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck. You would have thought they'd have wanted to stamp that out, not double down on it with a line like that.

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I don’t think there was any intent to cause any harm. If the “Final Solution” line is intended to be a reference to the Holocaust, then I think that the “war crimes” line earlier on in the song clearly shows that he is repulsed by the events (as any human should be)

 

In fact, I personally see the lyrics as a sort of anti-nazi/anti-fascist/anti-radicalism in general, among other interpretations. It can be easily read as the struggle of a person against their worst own tendences against the others, and how much a radical or extremist view of the world (doesn't matter if political or religious) can distort reality and unleash the worst part of yourself by acting out.

The verse "Welcome to the infinite black skies", for example, particularly strikes me because black is a colour commonly associated with fascism, at least in my country. It's like it depicts an area, a place which doesn't have to be physical and could be in someone's mind, where their own inner "dark forces" make their "convertion" more easily possible.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, who knows?

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Matt isn't condoning extremism or anti semitism, but the reference feels tacky as fuck. If you're going to reference genocide and relate it to modern politics, a little nuance would go a long way.

 

Considering that he's clearly against all of that, using "nuance" would mean edulcorating the concept, thus I disagree.

Even with all of its flaws and incompleteness, I think TC is a blatanly anger-fueled, dramatic song, and should be treated as quite serious for its intentions.

Yeah, even in spite of its neon tinged video, which I feel invalidates it by being too goofy.

Edited by MartianSpaghettiRider

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I'm interested that the 'bitten by' parts seem to be so popular. I think that part is what turned me off the most. It's so repetitive and such an annoying lyric.

 

Nevermind, the verses are the annoying part. The rest isn't as bad as it was on first listen. Still Drones level quality though, and the lyrics :$

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Don’t care about any motive or carelessness on Matt’s part, that phrase just has too many connotations for a cheap pop song.

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I certainly don’t love the song (and would rather never hear crowd-style vocals on a Muse studio track ever again), but think it might be the best post-BHAR single at capturing an essence of what I enjoy about the band. Of course, that possibly says more about my lukewarm relationship with their recent radio output than anything else :$ Most of those I find okay in context, but wouldn’t make a favourites list and aren’t the sorts of thing I’d care to see again live, for example (early performances of Madness and Survival excepted, perhaps, for other reasons).

 

I’m quite happy they’re returning to their one-song-at-a-time approach for this album – a dynamic and colourful 10 song tracklist that avoids a huge drop-off in quality would be an appealing prospect. Not expecting a return to the glory days in terms of consistency of quality, but staying cautiously optimistic for now :) !

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It does strike me as catastrophically clumsy rather than maliciously ill intentioned. But if there's one issue you would not want to be clumsy over... Their lyrical ambiguity is the reason why they have attracted fans like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck. You would have thought they'd have wanted to stamp that out, not double down on it with a line like that.

 

Sure. His intent is one thing, but the execution is... Well, a bit shite. As Martian says, the song reads as pretty blatantly anti fascist to me so I'm not too bothered by the line, but even so, it's a pretty boneheaded thing to sing about without adding much depth.

 

Considering that he's clearly against all of that, using "nuance" would mean edulcorating the concept, thus I disagree.

Even with all of its flaws and incompleteness, I think TC is a blatanly anger-fueled, dramatic song, and should be treated as quite serious for its intentions.

Yeah, even in spite of its neon tinged video, which I feel invalidates it by being too goofy.

 

Maybe nuance isn't the word. I guess as I was saying earlier, it's the lack of depth that bothers me. He's making blatant references to fascism and the holocaust, but the lyrics are too simple to really add much depth or insight, so it's easy for things to be interpreted differently, which is a problem.

 

Don’t care about any motive or carelessness on Matt’s part, that phrase just has too many connotations for a cheap pop song.

 

I agree for the most part. I think there should be room in pop to discuss weighty themes and politics, but this wasn't handled brilliantly imo, and if he wants to make an artistic statement on rising fascism and misinformation, there are probably better ways to do that.

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I think it's pretty obvious that Matt isn't condoning extremism or anti semitism, but the reference feels tacky as fuck. If you're going to reference genocide and relate it to modern politics, a little nuance would go a long way.

 

Sadly it is related to modern politics, the nazi movement is very much alive and well within the USA. It is absolutely incredible how much room for misinterpretation Matt allows, but to me the song is clearly about the current state of American politics.

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Sadly it is related to modern politics, the nazi movement is very much alive and well within the USA. It is absolutely incredible how much room for misinterpretation Matt allows, but to me the song is clearly about the current state of American politics.

 

Just American politics and society, though? The message of the song can also easily refer to many other countries in the world (and Italy, where I come from, is certainly one of those).

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The Final Solution line sticks out a fucking mile because it's the only concrete line in the song that refers to a specific thing. Other than that line the song is so vague that it's essentially about nothing. I can't believe no-one has sat Matt down and explained to him that the abstract is best expressed through the concrete. That's poetry/lyrics 101.

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I did go with my anger after hearing it for the first time there. But I expect that is something a lot of people will feel.

 

It does strike me as catastrophically clumsy rather than maliciously ill intentioned. But if there's one issue you would not want to be clumsy over... Their lyrical ambiguity is the reason why they have attracted fans like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck. You would have thought they'd have wanted to stamp that out, not double down on it with a line like that.

 

That's really the issue, whatever Matt's intent or knowledge of the situation was.

Matt's gotten in bed with the alt-right before it was mainstream, and he hasn't exactly done much to distance himself from it.

The Globalist was likely just Matt's having read Rushdie, but nationalism has taken a dark turn in the world right now, and "globalist" is up there in the alt-right lexicon with "cuck" and "snowflake." With a very racist and anti-Semitic meaning most of the time.

 

Can I reasonably believe Matt's made the same mistake twice, or am I projecting what I want to believe onto the situation? The song is too damn vague.

 

And the irony of "fake news" has always been that the right propagated most of it (or Russian propaganda, if you want) but is the same team crying out that mainstream news is "fake" so the "false beliefs" line in the song easily fits with the interpretation of being sung from EITHER side, but the "fake news" phrase has mainly been adopted by the far right.

Edited by SerpentSatellite

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The line is unbelievably clumsy and out of place. That it made it into the final song is even crazier. It's way too careless and blunt for such a sensitive topic. That being said I honestly don't see room for malicious interpretation and it seems clear to me that it's a terrible attempt at denouncing fascism.

 

I'm not aware of any acquaintanceship between Matt and the alt-right. I know right-wing politicians have used Muse songs but that the band usually turned down their requests. Can someone direct me to stuff showing Matt getting "in bed with the alt-right"? I googled it but couldn't find anything.

 

Edit: Unless by alt-right you mean conspiracy theories?

Edited by Zepp

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The line is unbelievably clumsy and out of place. That it made it into the final song is even crazier. It's way too careless and blunt for such a sensitive topic. That being said I honestly don't see room for malicious interpretation and it seems clear to me that it's a terrible attempt at denouncing fascism.

 

I'm not aware of any acquaintanceship between Matt and the alt-right. I know right-wing politicians have used Muse songs but that the band usually turned down their requests. Can someone direct me to stuff showing Matt getting "in bed with the alt-right"? I googled it but couldn't find anything.

 

http://www.nme.com/news/music/muse-394-1358164

 

Matt's conspiracy-era stuff got him pretty close to Alex Jones. It's a reputation that has never really gone away.

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I don't get any queen-wannabe vibe from this one. The millennial chants sound like a dime a dozen, but not like queen-style harmonies this time.

 

It's not harmonies or chanting. Unfortunately I'm too musically illiterate to describe what exactly I mean. There's something in the sound that I associate with Queen, but maybe it's just something generally 80s. Something Muse has started employing from The Resistance on.

 

 

I'm interested that the 'bitten by' parts seem to be so popular. I think that part is what turned me off the most. It's so repetitive and such an annoying lyric.

 

I liked it the first time I heard it, but then he sang it over and over again and I became annoyed.

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