Jump to content

Recommended Posts

No one is 'triggered' by the fact that he's rich and wealthy. No one is saying that the rich shouldn't have an opinion. We're merely responding to Matt's very own observation that if you turn off the news, things aren't so bad. Which is only an observation that people from a position of privilege can make.

 

Let me break it down.

 

Matt explains the lyrics to his song are a result of his thought process that the media are constantly broadcasting their viewpoints about Trump. And if you turn off the tv, it turns out things aren't so bad.

 

For many people living in America, this is not true. They can't close their eyes and realize that suddenly things aren't so bad, because they still can't afford to go to the doctor to get their cancer sorted out, or they're still facing deportation despite having lived in the US since they were a baby, or their kids are still dead after being shot in a school shooting, or they still see the social security they have paid for all their life taken away from them, leaving them unable to pay for basic needs at an old age, or they still see an increase in racist verbal and physical - occasionally lethal- attacks on people of a non-white background, etc, etc, etc.

 

If we say that Matt is out of touch it's not out of hatred for the rich and famous. He is, however, like many others who aren't rich and famous, privileged in a sense that he is not negatively affected by the horrors that Trump inflicts on the American people. Not just on the news, but in real life. Many can close their eyes to the news and feel better. But that doesn't change the reality that many don't have that option. These horrible stories are reality to them, they don't see it on the news, they see it in their lives. Their story needs to be told and heard, not silenced by urging people to just turn off the tv and pretend like the bad things don't exist.

 

As a Muse fan living in America, you could not have been more spot on with this post. While I enjoy the song, the message is a little lost on me because of the things you outlined above. Well done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a Muse fan living in America, you could not have been more spot on with this post. While I enjoy the song, the message is a little lost on me because of the things you outlined above. Well done.

 

Yeah, I'm pissed about Matt's explanation, even if I didn't get that that's what he was talking about in the lyrics. Either way, the lyrics still piss me off because of that casually thrown in Final Solution line.

 

In the Guardian webchat Matt puts his take on the news coverage slightly differently and, -perhaps more worryingly- it sounds like he's with Trump in essentially calling CNN and MSNBC "Fake News" by asserting that they don't provide evidence to back up their reporting and are influencing a group of people who 'don't want empirical evidence applied to their belief systems'. I'm sure he's not 100% wrong about that, but he would be 100% right if he had singled out Fox News, rather than journalistic outlets that are already under siege from the liars in charge of the country and are (empirically proven to be) more accurate in their reporting.

 

I mean, how can Matt, who runs with the nonsense conspiracy theorists toss at him all the time, now have a point to make about people not requiring empirical evidence in forming their opinions?

 

The one thing I'll agree with him on is that there's no need for 24/7 Trump coverage. To me more legitimate critique of CNN and MSNBC would be that they're commercial operations going for the ratings and therefore keep reporting on Trump as often as they can, because love him or hate him, he's ratings gold.

 

Anyway, below is Matt's quote from the webchat I'm referring to.

 

Is Thought Contagion influenced by the 2016 US presidential election?

 

Probably influenced a bit by the endless news coverage in the US about that - when you watch CNN or MSNBC, all you see is Trump 24-7, it's like they're not interested in anything else. Was the song influenced by that? I mean, it's probably more influenced by Richard Dawkins' original idea of what he described as a meme, even though that word has changed meaning over time. How he originally meant is was to describe when somebody else's ideas or beliefs, regardless of validity or accuracy, can have a way of spreading around like genes do, growing in each other's minds and surviving. Certain ideas are very robust the way genes are robust. He was trying to find a way to describe how thoughts can be contagious and spread and have strength and grow in the way genes do through evolution. And unfortunately it's particularly true for the people who don't want empirical evidence applied to their belief systems - and they tend to be the most fervent. Sometimes those belief systems are the ones who spread the most.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This interview is also a good example, and I highlighted the most relevant quote...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that's what Matt meant.

 

I turned off the news two years ago and ill tell you I am much happier. Not because I turn a blind eye but because I dont have people shouting at me 24 7 about how to think and feel about things. The news and social media tell us every day what to be outraged over and I'm sorry I cant live in a perpetual state of outrage anymore.

 

I live my life and vote my conscience and I don't feel anger and hatred for people over differences of opinion on POLICY. Its not worth it. If you took the time to unplug and engage face to face with your community I think in general you will find that people are still good, and you have more in common than you think.

 

I think he simply means to step away from the manipulation of the outrage industry and you'll find that your immigrant neighbor is a human being not a scary political figure, and your religious boss doesn't give a shit if you are gay and is perfectly happy sharing a drink after work if you want to.

 

There's a lot of people who think that's naive but I've come to start really distrusting people who want my emotional reactions all the time. The minute someone or something comes at me with an overly emotional argument my immediate response is to feel manipulated and become skeptical of what they are saying. Wait, who does my outrage really benefit? What is this person or cause gain at the expense of my emotional well being?

 

That goes in nicely to the thought contagion theory because it is very easy to manipulate public opinion by manipulating people's emotions. Trump does it when he refers to elitists and immigrants and refugees as usurping our culture, it makes people feel threatened and angry therefore they want something to be done. Make people feel a certain way you can instill opinions in them that they otherwise wouldn't have.

 

Anyway. The song certainly has a Drones era sound but I like it much better than Dig Down or that ridiculous Kinks cover. Can't wait to see it live.

 

Edit: And as usual the discussion has moved on before I get my response typed up and renders my post almost nonsensical. Whatever have a good day guys.

Edited by altbecky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This interview is also a good example, and I highlighted the most relevant quote...

 

Saying the news is feeding us false information because when you step outside you don’t personally see the bad things you saw on the news is about as stupid and/or manipulative as saying global warming can’t be real because it’s snowing outside your window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know. Media tells me everyday that I should fear my neighbor and that we've never been more divided and honestly when I step outside my social media commentary bubble and interact with people I find there's a lot to love and connect over.

 

I would not outright dismiss The idea that the 24 7 news cycle hasn't impacted the way we see the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think that's what Matt meant.

 

I turned off the news two years ago and ill tell you I am much happier. Not because I turn a blind eye but because I dont have people shouting at me 24 7 about how to think and feel about things. The news and social media tell us every day what to be outraged over and I'm sorry I cant live in a perpetual state of outrage anymore.

 

I live my life and vote my conscience and I don't feel anger and hatred for people over differences of opinion on POLICY. Its not worth it. If you took the time to unplug and engage face to face with your community I think in general you will find that people are still good, and you have more in common than you think.

 

I think he simply means to step away from the manipulation of the outrage industry and you'll find that your immigrant neighbor is a human being not a scary political figure, and your religious boss doesn't give a shit if you are gay and is perfectly happy sharing a drink after work if you want to.

 

There's a lot of people who think that's naive but I've come to start really distrusting people who want my emotional reactions all the time. The minute someone or something comes at me with an overly emotional argument my immediate response is to feel manipulated and become skeptical of what they are saying. Wait, who does my outrage really benefit? What is this person or cause gain at the expense of my emotional well being?

 

That goes in nicely to the thought contagion theory because it is very easy to manipulate public opinion by manipulating people's emotions. Trump does it when he refers to elitists and immigrants and refugees as usurping our culture, it makes people feel threatened and angry therefore they want something to be done. Make people feel a certain way you can instill opinions in them that they otherwise wouldn't have.

 

Anyway. The song certainly has a Drones era sound but I like it much better than Dig Down or that ridiculous Kinks cover. Can't wait to see it live.

 

Edit: And as usual the discussion has moved on before I get my response typed up and renders my post almost nonsensical. Whatever have a good day guys.

 

Where can I sign all of what you wrote above? :D exactly my thoughts. :)

 

I remember watching a helicopter-hunt of a car on CNN many years ago, I just zappd there. I was glued to the telly for some minutes, cause it was LIVE and the presenter was so into it, it felt like I was the hunted! I had to turn it off to breathe again.... Felt the same with the Reapers-video, but I love the video, it suits the song so perfectly.(and it's fictional ;)

Edited by Claudia O.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think that's what Matt meant.

 

I turned off the news two years ago and ill tell you I am much happier. Not because I turn a blind eye but because I dont have people shouting at me 24 7 about how to think and feel about things. The news and social media tell us every day what to be outraged over and I'm sorry I cant live in a perpetual state of outrage anymore.

 

I live my life and vote my conscience and I don't feel anger and hatred for people over differences of opinion on POLICY. Its not worth it. If you took the time to unplug and engage face to face with your community I think in general you will find that people are still good, and you have more in common than you think.

 

I think he simply means to step away from the manipulation of the outrage industry and you'll find that your immigrant neighbor is a human being not a scary political figure, and your religious boss doesn't give a shit if you are gay and is perfectly happy sharing a drink after work if you want to.

 

There's a lot of people who think that's naive but I've come to start really distrusting people who want my emotional reactions all the time. The minute someone or something comes at me with an overly emotional argument my immediate response is to feel manipulated and become skeptical of what they are saying. Wait, who does my outrage really benefit? What is this person or cause gain at the expense of my emotional well being?

 

That goes in nicely to the thought contagion theory because it is very easy to manipulate public opinion by manipulating people's emotions. Trump does it when he refers to elitists and immigrants and refugees as usurping our culture, it makes people feel threatened and angry therefore they want something to be done. Make people feel a certain way you can instill opinions in them that they otherwise wouldn't have.

 

Anyway. The song certainly has a Drones era sound but I like it much better than Dig Down or that ridiculous Kinks cover. Can't wait to see it live.

 

Edit: And as usual the discussion has moved on before I get my response typed up and renders my post almost nonsensical. Whatever have a good day guys.

There are definitely people gaining from creating this sensationalist climate where everything is an argument, but at the same time we're living in a time where people who have been marginalized for a very long time finally have an opportunity to say no. Yes it's difficult living in an age where everything is worthy of an outrage, but honestly it's been a long time coming. "Small" things like microaggressions are finally being addressed, and that WILL lead to constant callouts until we change our behaviour.

 

Because the alternative is to stop making a big deal out of these things, and we will quickly fall back into objectification, ableism and whatnot without questioning it.

 

And saying that it's a "difference of opinion on policy" is a nicer way of describing it than actually explaining what those policies are. Are those policies about infringing on the rights of marginalized groups? Are they about defunding planned parenthood? And are the opinions of the person voting actually WORSE than what can be described by the policies they stand behind? Should I just say "well agree to disagree, I won't let political policies stand in the way of our friendship" to someone who thinks that homosexual people should receive conversion therapy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah that's mostly a very specific type of news, fair enough. But I was reacting to the examples like the boss not giving a shit about you being gay (I mean...as long as you don't try anything on him)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know. Media tells me everyday that I should fear my neighbor and that we've never been more divided and honestly when I step outside my social media commentary bubble and interact with people I find there's a lot to love and connect over.

 

I would not outright dismiss The idea that the 24 7 news cycle hasn't impacted the way we see the world.

 

I’m the last one to claim that the American news media are a beacon of integrity, and I too grow tired of the same talking heads talking about the same damn thing every day. But my main criticism is not they are painting a bleaker version of reality. Quite the opposite actually. I wished they would start showing in-depth detailed on the ground reporting where real people, rather than talking heads, get to tell their story. Show us the animals that are going extinct as a result of an administration that removes protections and allows agricultural poisons that have been banned elsewhere and show us the scientists who study this. Show us the people who are dying because they can’t afford to go to the doctor. Show us the moment when ICE barges through the door and arrests parents in front of their children. Show us how the rich are spending their day after getting a tax break versus the poor who can’t feed their kids after their cost of living has gone up and their benefits have gone down. Show us the racist bullshit people of color have to deal with outside the context of political rallies.

 

For a lot people the real world isn’t better than what we hear on the news. It’s worse.

 

In addition to that. A lot of the horrors the news is warning us about aren’t visible in our every day lives. Yet. Of course we don’t see how corporations, billionaires, fascists and foreign powers are wiggling their way into our democratic process. But that doesn’t mean we won’t all suffer the long-term consequences if they get to do it unchecked. And it definitely doesn’t mean that the reason I don’t see it happening in my every day life means that it isn’t happening at all.

 

Final thing. I don’t ever get from the news that I should fear my neighbor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bolded policy because I don't see the point of demonizing people for disagreements on how to come to the same goal on an issue. I certainly think there are moral issues that I can't get behind the opposing side on, but even then it is not worth my emotional health to spend my life hating and combating them on social media, or arranging my life and communications in a way that puts their stupid asses at the forefront of my mind.

 

Spread love and love spreads. More people have their minds changed by positive interactions with people they are supposed to hate than anything I suspect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes you do. The refugee is your neighbor. The gun owner is your neighbor. The Hilary supporter is your neighbor. The Republican is your neighbor. The trans kid using the bathroom at school is your neighbor. The Christian who believes in evolution is your neighbor The Muslim who prays 5 times a day is your neighbor. The Jew who did a stint in the IDF is your neighbor.

 

Are you saying you are not getting messages about how to feel about these people on an hourly basis from mass media?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I bolded policy because I don't see the point of demonizing people for disagreements on how to come to the same goal on an issue. I certainly think there are moral issues that I can't get behind the opposing side on, but even then it is not worth my emotional health to spend my life hating and combating them on social media, or arranging my life and communications in a way that puts their stupid asses at the forefront of my mind.

 

Spread love and love spreads. More people have their minds changed by positive interactions with people they are supposed to hate than anything I suspect.

And who am I to say that you should! But the problem is that it's not just a political debate that's supposed to be fun for everyone. Some people are actually affected by which policy the people in charge decide to go with. And while arguing on the internet won't help anyone, I am most certainly gonna say "fuck off" to anyone who stands behind these ideas that infringe on human rights in all but technicalities.

 

I'm not gonna tell you to check your privilege, but you surely understand why not everyone will just be better off not caring about what certain politicians and voters stand for and what is said in the news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I do need to check my privilege.

 

I've been low income all my life and very few if any decisions made in Washington have affected my life to the point I felt powerless to combat it. I've been told I should feel that way though. I choose not to I guess. And I feel I'm happier for it.

 

I'm trying to keep this on topic so I keep trying to bring it back to the song but I can't even remember the argument I'm supposed to be making haha.

 

I don't want you to think I'm not willing to keep defending my point I'm just going to step away to gain some clarity. :)

Edited by altbecky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think what Matt is saying is "Shut off the news and be happy",And come on, do you really think that Matt was making a holocaust joke?

 

"Sometimes your anxieties about the world or your anxieties about the world of the future can be lessened by turning the news off and turning your phone off for a few days. You then realize that everything is fine!" - Matt Bellamy, Rolling Stone, a couple days ago

 

So, that's pretty much EXACTLY what he's saying. Minus the "pretty much" part.

 

He makes a Holocaust lyric in a silly song, telling people how silly it is to get worked up about current events.

Maybe "joke" wasn't the right word, but what it really is (other than fucking stupid) defies being summed up in a short word or phrase (other than fucking stupid.)

 

I also appreciate the irony of a lot of people disliking the song but recognising how it got stuck in their heads :p

 

Why is this ironic? I've had all sorts of songs that I find fucking terrible stuck in my head over my lifetime.

Being catchy doesn't make it good, or even enjoyable. Unless you think jingles for soda and kids' shoes are examples of good music.

 

Because the alternative is to stop making a big deal out of these things, and we will quickly fall back into objectification, ableism and whatnot without questioning it.

 

And saying that it's a "difference of opinion on policy" is a nicer way of describing it than actually explaining what those policies are. Are those policies about infringing on the rights of marginalized groups? Are they about defunding planned parenthood? And are the opinions of the person voting actually WORSE than what can be described by the policies they stand behind? Should I just say "well agree to disagree, I won't let political policies stand in the way of our friendship" to someone who thinks that homosexual people should receive conversion therapy?

 

Honestly, just so much this.

The fringe side of one political group's "policies" are essentially human rights violations.

This isn't a debate about fiscal policy, it's about a group of people who aren't shy to advocate for throwing brown people out of the country, blocking people of certain religions from even visiting the country, allowing stores to refuse to serve you based on sexual orientation, refusing basic healthcare needs to women, escalating kids' schools to warzone levels, and on, and on and on.

It DESERVES outrage.

People saying you can't live with a constant sense of outrage... but there's a ton of people who can't live their lives if people aren't constantly outraged and pushing for basic civil rights.

 

Yes you do. The refugee is your neighbor. The gun owner is your neighbor. The Hilary supporter is your neighbor. The Republican is your neighbor. The trans kid using the bathroom at school is your neighbor. The Christian who believes in evolution is your neighbor The Muslim who prays 5 times a day is your neighbor. The Jew who did a stint in the IDF is your neighbor.

 

Are you saying you are not getting messages about how to feel about these people on an hourly basis from mass media?

 

Almost ALL of this seems exclusive to Fox News, and places like it.

I've never even seen other mainstream media denigrate Christianity; the "attack on Christians" is more likely to be spread on Fox and for how often far right sources bring it up, it's startlingly lacking in other media, even "left leaning" stuff.

 

The only one that legitimately comes up in other major news sources is the gun ownership issues, and it's about damn time we have that conversation when our children are constantly being gunned down at school.

That's not fearmongering, that's the reality of HUNDREDS of people being shot and killed at school. Of kids going through "active shooter" drills at school. That's fucking insane.

 

And none of it, NOTHING will improve by closing our eyes to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the whole point about the media’s constant recycling of / discussion of the worldview of Trump and his ilk is that they are unwittingly doing his dirty work for him - hence Thought Contagion, for contagion is what it is.

 

(However, I do think the song is lyrically lazy, as if Matt wrote it in a hurry.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don’t get why it’s so difficult to understand that bad lyrics that are in your face can be an issue no matter how little you care about lyrics in general. Actually I’m pretty sure Tuck Norris understands this, he’s just pretending not to so his post seems more logical.

 

They really are not in your face though. The lyrics are second to the music with Muse, always have been. In 2001, he was asked what the lyrics of New Born were about, he didnt have a clue what to say. :LOL:

 

Its a great track, regardless of the lyrics. The bassline is amazing, and i love the little piano bits on the first "bitten by" section. And the "woooaaahhh" bits are catchy as hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They really are not in your face though. The lyrics are second to the music with Muse, always have been. In 2001, he was asked what the lyrics of New Born were about, he didnt have a clue what to say. :LOL:

 

Its a great track, regardless of the lyrics. The bassline is amazing, and i love the little piano bits on the first "bitten by" section. And the "woooaaahhh" bits are catchy as hell.

The importance of the lyrics have clearly changed though, which should be obvious when you listen to interviews about lyrics more current than 2001...

 

Go and listen to some interviews from 2015 and tell me if he had a clue or not.

 

Not to mention that their importance to Matt is quite irrelevant anyway. The vocals are almost always placed in the middle and are supposed to cut through the other instruments. If they’re not in your face, then someone has severely fucked up when mixing (there are of course exceptions, but very rarely with Muse). How important the lyrics are to Matt doesn’t really matter when he’s singing “your aaaass belongs to meee nooow”, because it’s still in my face.

Edited by Tjet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They really are not in your face though. The lyrics are second to the music with Muse, always have been.

 

Are muse making shoegaze? The lyrics are second to the music because Matt is awful at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys are complaining about the lyrics, yet you are having an intellectual discussion about the meaning of them, about 4 pages in this thread worth in fact.

 

So, technically, the song has created discussion about the effects of the media, so the lyrics are succesful then?

 

Back on topic though, i believe the worst media for this is in fact Facebook ( i dont use Twitter so cannot speak for that). It basically has an algorithm which works out qhich way you lean politically. For example, in the last two votes we had in the UK, i went with Remain and Labour. Guess what sort of propaganda i get on a daily basis?

 

It just concerns me that these people who went with Brexit and Trump are just in this "information bubble" where they are shown articles extolling the virtues of these ridiculous results, but they are never shown the other side of the debate, or are too set in their mentality to even consider the other sides views.

 

We have a major problem with racism in our town, in particular against our European guys. Its absolute bullshit. 90% of my staff are Lithuanian, and i often have to complain to the site manager about how they are treated. The truth is that they are absolutely fucking brilliant workers, they are reliable, and the vast majority were supplied to me by agencies, when their 6 months were up, i almost always call them up to the office and give them permanent contracts. It annoys me when some chavvy dickhead in a club starts on them, especially when they themselves have probably never worked a day in their life, but just whinge about how nobody does anything for them. Indeed has 368 jobs within 20 miles of the town, dont tell me you cant get a job. I really do believe that this hate is fuelled by things they see on Facebook like Britain First etc.

 

Sorry for the rant after a rant, but i look after my people :LOL:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The information bubble of Facebook is a natural result of its business model. As long as it continues to get support they have nostrong incentive to change. This applies to a lot of other social media. They've all been very slow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arguably the worst lyricist in popular rock music for the past few years. Impressive.

 

I dunno dude, this exists:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zcbOfVKSMkA

 

I really like Ruled By Secrecy.

 

His best, imo

 

Taking a step away from TC's lyrics specifically, on the whole his lyrics took a nose dive when he decided to make every other song a grand political statement, or condense a complicated issue or topic into a verse/chorus/verse/chorus structure. Matt has always written simple lyrics, but since The Resistance he's dumbed them down so much that it plays like a series of loosely connected catch phrases. There's nothing to read into them, even when they're so confused that they don't make much sense; pure tell, nothing to show. It's a shame, because when he was on form he wrote some really nice lyrics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You guys are complaining about the lyrics, yet you are having an intellectual discussion about the meaning of them, about 4 pages in this thread worth in fact.

 

So, technically, the song has created discussion about the effects of the media, so the lyrics are succesful then?

 

This is the Songs & Releases part of the official Muse Messageboard though. I don't think people discussing a new song here is exactly evidence of the lyrics successfully creating discussion about a given topic on a wider scale. In fact, I find it hard to imagine that most people elsewhere really care that much either way, with the exception perhaps of other old Muse fans who I've seen lamenting Matt's 'tin-foil hat lyrics' in other forums in recent years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...