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I'm pretty sure the thinking going into Drones was, "alright let's please the hardcore fanbase now, then we can continue doing music we want to do and hopefully they won't whinge."

 

Of course that line of thinking fails, because now the diehards are expecting more hard rock. Then you drop a synthpop track and they become convinced the band has sold out etc.

 

Linkin Park did pretty much the same thing. After edging towards more electronic and subdued territory for a few albums, they went full heavy metal for an album. Now they've "suddenly" gone pop and people are losing their shit.

 

Mike explained it pretty well though. They were just sick of playing the same hard-rock style of music, so the change was necessary for keeping enthusiasm alive in the band, even if it makes some fans unhappy. I imagine Muse are in a similar position.

 

Yeah except the new Linkin Park stuff is indiscernible from the trash that currently dominates the Top 40, whereas the new Muse song doesn't resemble current pop trends half as much, if really at all.

 

Also, in my humble opinion, the new Muse song is actually good, and the new Linkin Park is either totally clueless or a complete sellout, "Heavy" has been getting some decent play after all.

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Remember when Muse use to have singles like "New Born", "Stockholm Syndrome", "Hysteria"? IMHO the rot began with "Time is Running Out" - their first explicit pop song. They never should have done it in retrospect. It gave them chart success and the taste of filthy lucre.

 

You cited two songs from Abso as great singles from their glory days, then a third from Abso as the start of "the rot." You realize those were all written and released around the same time, right?

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Nah, I think they still love being a rock band at heart. They practically live for moshing crowds and you can tell from interviews and behind-the-scenes stuff that they're still very much into their riffs.

 

The real pop-y stuff over the last 10 years has always been more of an excursion imo, the odd couple or few per album (Supermassive/Starlight, UD/IBTY, Madness/Follow Me/Panic, Dead Inside/Mercy/Revolt). It's just that those taking up the majority of the singles in that time means that that's the side they've established themselves as to a lot of people which, in turn, is probs what makes Matt feel compelled to put them in the set.

 

If I didn't know who Muse was aside from Madness and Uprising, and I went to a show on a whim with a friend, and the whole set was OoS and Abso era stuff, I'd be pretty disappointed and confused.

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The problem is Dig Down is literally Madness redux. Right down to the chord progression and vocal style. Madness itself was a George Michael "Faith" ripoff. Welcome back to 1987!

 

The song structure isn't quite the same though, and neither are the melodies (between the Muse songs), so I'd hardly call them the same song. The synth-bass is slightly different in tone and rhythm as well.

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You cited two songs from Abso as great singles from their glory days, then a third from Abso as the start of "the rot." You realize those were all written and released around the same time, right?

 

Yeah I realize that, but in 2002-2003 Matt wasn't obsessed with writing pop songs. He did TIRO more as an experiment to see if he could rather than indicating that as a change in direction. Unfortunately it really was as evidenced by "Starlight", "Supermassive Black Hole", "Invincible" on the next album. Hell, 70% of the LP 5/6/7 are pop songs.

 

'Member when there used to be songs like "Falling Away With You", "Screenager", "Shrinking Universe", "Ruled by Secrecy", "Citizen Erased"? The problem is Muse understood 10 years ago that if they wrote more pop songs, they would make more money. Essentially they did what The Moody Blues did in the 1980s, sold out and made tons of money. "Your Wildest Dreams"...

 

I personally discovered the band via "Butterflies & Hurricanes", that was my gateway drug to Muse. Not pop crap.

 

At least with Radiohead, if you're 15 and the first thing you ever heard was "Burn the Witch", you didn't get robbed of artistry on the first go. "A Moon Shaped Pool" isn't Kid A/Amnesiac but it's a damn fine progressive art-rock album that shows you don't have to sell out at 40+.

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Yeah I realize that, but in 2002-2003 Matt wasn't obsessed with writing pop songs. He did TIRO more as an experiment to see if he could rather than indicating that as a change in direction. Unfortunately it really was as evidenced by "Starlight", "Supermassive Black Hole", "Invincible" on the next album. Hell, 70% of the LP 5/6/7 are pop songs.

 

'Member when there used to be songs like "Falling Away With You", "Screenager", "Shrinking Universe", "Ruled by Secrecy", "Citizen Erased"? The problem is Muse understood 10 years ago that if they wrote more pop songs, they would make more money. Essentially they did what The Moody Blues did in the 1980s, sold out and made tons of money. "Your Wildest Dreams"...

 

I personally discovered the band via "Butterflies & Hurricanes", that was my gateway drug to Muse. Not pop crap.

 

I'd hardly call any album with Exogenesis, Isolated System, or The Globalist on it a sell-out release. Imo BH&R was their most commercial album, though TR and T2L were more successful with bigger singles.

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I'd hardly call any album with Exogenesis, Isolated System, or The Globalist on it a sell-out release. Imo BH&R was their most commercial album, though TR and T2L were more successful with bigger singles.

 

It just irritates the hell out of me that Matt is chasing Chris Martin instead of the other way around like in the early 2000s.

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It just irritates the hell out of me that Matt is chasing Chris Martin instead of the other way around like in the early 2000s.

 

If Matt were chasing Chris Martin, he'd be getting Rihanna and Beyonce to guest star on Muse songs, and he'd give up all the crazy conspiracy theories for generic and generalized lovesick stuff that comprises most of Chris' lyrics.

 

Actually, when Matt does write love songs, they tend to have some of his best lyrics...maybe he should do more of that.

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If Matt were chasing Chris Martin, he'd be getting Rihanna and Beyonce to guest star on Muse songs, and he'd give up all the crazy conspiracy theories for generic and generalized lovesick stuff that comprises most of Chris' lyrics.

 

Actually, when Matt does write love songs, they tend to have some of his best lyrics...maybe he should do more of that.

 

Muse are one of the highest grossing rock acts in the last 5 years.

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Muse are one of the highest grossing rock acts in the last 5 years.

 

Modern musicians make the vast majority of their income from touring, not record sales. Muse could never release another song and still be one of those highest grossing acts for the next 5 years I bet. They are widely known as one of THE top live bands, and they're one of the youngest of that top tier as well, what with artists like Springsteen and U2 in there.

 

That said, Coldplay are also amazing live, actually better than on record.

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Modern musicians make the vast majority of their income from touring, not record sales. Muse could never release another song and still be one of those highest grossing acts for the next 5 years I bet. They are widely known as one of THE top live bands, and they're one of the youngest of that top tier as well, what with artists like Springsteen and U2 in there.

 

That said, Coldplay are also amazing live, actually better than on record.

 

Muse are all turning 40 in the next 18 months, so they are quite the 'junior' in comparison to many of the other major high revenue acts like the Stones, Springsteen. Hard to imagine Matt/Dom/Chris as 40, I always thought they'd be 22 forever like this:

 

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Hell, 70% of the LP 5/6/7 are pop songs.

 

TR: Resistance, Undisclosed Desires, I Belong To You (3/11)

 

T2L: Madness, Panic Station, Follow Me, Big Freeze (4/12)

 

Drones: Dead Inside, Mercy, Revolt (3/10)

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It seems like whenever Muse release a pop single, it's "the band has sold out!" Well, a lot of people can get dragged in by hearing one of their pop songs, then digging into their catalog. I mean, hell, found them through American Idol, and they quickly became my favorite band as soon as I listened to Absolution and Origin of Symmetry.

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It seems like whenever Muse release a pop single, it's "the band has sold out!" Well, a lot of people can get dragged in by hearing one of their pop songs, then digging into their catalog. I mean, hell, found them through American Idol, and they quickly became my favorite band as soon as I listened to Absolution and Origin of Symmetry.

 

TiRO, Uprising, SMBH, Madness, and Starlight all helped real me in.

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It seems like whenever Muse release a pop single, it's "the band has sold out!" Well, a lot of people can get dragged in by hearing one of their pop songs, then digging into their catalog. I mean, hell, found them through American Idol, and they quickly became my favorite band as soon as I listened to Absolution and Origin of Symmetry.

 

Same. First song I heard was SMBH on FIFA. Then TIRO and Uprising. And then around the time Drones came out I listened to that and decided to look into them more. Started from the beginning with showbiz, OoS, etc... I'd say I'm a pretty big fan now (not as much as most of y'all but still) and I only got into them because of their "pop" songs.

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No. Just... no.

If it must come down to this, then I prefer to keep shamelessly 80s-influenced Muse, thank you.

 

Why? At least Radiohead are still writing genuinely interesting music, not just trend hopping like Matt.

 

- new album influenced by "burning man festival", many songs with EBM elements and Hiphop beats

 

Ah shit.

 

Hell, in my honest opinion he is the best lyricist alive.

 

Not trying to be that guy, but no. As lurker said, the likes of Kendrick, Nick Cave and Darnielle could speak circles around him. Not that it matters, since in the case of Matt his lyrics are so bad that all other comparisons are immediately pointless.

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The problem is Dig Down is literally Madness redux. Right down to the chord progression and vocal style. Madness itself was a George Michael "Faith" ripoff. Welcome back to 1987!

 

Wait wait wait...as a longtime fan of George, I never heard "Faith" in Madness! Why do you think so? But, as I first heard "Dig down" it was clear to hear the part from "Freedom" in it: "Freedom,freedom,freedom you gotta give for what you take!" in Dig down it is "dig down, dig down, dig down and find Faith!" also the "gospel" part reminded me of George Michael and his eycellent backing singers. Cause he's recently died, it may be a reason for me to dislike the song, and to know George's Freedom is way better.

There is an interview with one of the Sex Pistols, he asked Matt about the George Michael reference in the song, and Matt said "Always love a bit of George. Yeah, He's always find his way in somewhere."

 

Edited by Claudia O.
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It's quite sad in retrospect that SMBH probably felt like a big 'fuck you and goodbye' to the Muse of OOS and Absolution (and was treated as such by a lot of fans) at the time, but as Muse pop-ish chart material goes, it's far heavier (and a far better song) than most of what has come since. It's still their most accomplished crossover song imho.

 

EDIT: oh, and Turner's lyrics are a bit overrated, and AM is MASSIVELY overrated - a third of the album is just the same song played at different speeds with tiny melody variations (One for the Road, Knee Socks, Arabella, WYOCMWYH)

Edited by frozenbanana
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Why? At least Radiohead are still writing genuinely interesting music, not just trend hopping like Muse.

Because I don't want to hear that goddamn claim that "Muse copied Radiohead1!1!" anymore. They moved their first step by getting panned on this baseless evidence with Showbiz. It would be like overshadowing them again.

I prefer them to stay on separate dimensions, and that's it. Muse as a more viable band that like to play around some pop influences, and Radiohead as a perfect example of a band that are successful whilst experimenting properly a lot.

And... "trend hopping"? They would make music like Imagine Dragons and such if they were doing that.

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