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but it's a normal thing for fans to do, especially in this fandom. You aren't gonna have a fandom without conversation and you can't have conversation without an ability to mock and question the band and their decisions. Hundreds of different groups of people have passed through this forum over the years and we've always had it. I spent most of tuesday with people i've never met before going 'oh FFS. THIS FUCKING BAND'. :LOL:

I know, my problem is just with the loudness and the constancy of it. Criticism is good and in this case totally justified, but it gets tiring when people feel the need to just beef. (Not directed directly at you Gems.)

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<3

 

So yeah if you've come here to bitch, or to bitch about the bitching, yay for busier forums, let's start a museboard uprising :awesome:

still haven't done my positive song posts. #soon

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It's hard to tell much from 140 characters but Matt seemed genuinely bewildered/confused last night. I guess he sees it from a different POV being the guy who is outwith the crowd so gets a different vibe from the stage.

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*peeks around the door*

 

Welll that was one for the history books, weren't it. ;) I have just about calmed down. My timelines were exploding; when I saw the setlist :eek: and then the pics & vidclips:eek::eek:, yeah I'm afraid my initial reaction was *waaaah* NOT FAIR MUSE ARE BASTARDS WHY DID THEY DO THIS AGAIN. :mad::rolleyes::'(

 

I know some people who were going, and I'm really pleased that folks had an awesome gig. And I've seen some of the rarities before: I went to Reading 2011; managed to see Muse at Exeter the other year - and that was pretty special. So I'm trying not to bitch. BUT hell: 8 rarities at ONE gig?! AND silly costumes?? AND peeps up onstage!! Aaargh. Of course I wish I had been there...:(

 

Other reason: it was a Proper Gig. I worry about the music not coming first anymore...Much as I loved the theatrics, I have to agree with whoeveritwas a few pages back about the amount of time that the band actually plays. Montreaux was practically all songs, no gimmicks - which sounded (and obv was) brilliant!

 

Are we entitled to a certain setlist? No. Do we deserve a great gig? Hell yeah at those prices! I know - you can't please all of the peeps all of the time. So yup they should just mix the songs up a bit more - something for everybody. The trouble is that you have to buy tix so far in advance and you have no idea what you're getting. Could be mundane, could be special. Could be brain-meltingly awesome. It's the randomness that drives me mad.

 

If Muse are worried that nobody knows/appreciates the old stuff, that's easy: just play them dammit. :rolleyes: Then they won't be rarities! :p

 

Other wishes: that Someone who recorded the gig will actually put it on dvd...*hopeful sigh*

 

Coda: bloody hell just found out that OH had an industry invite ticket to this. Nooooo!!! *waaah*

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It's hard to tell much from 140 characters but Matt seemed genuinely bewildered/confused last night. I guess he sees it from a different POV being the guy who is outwith the crowd so gets a different vibe from the stage.

 

I don't imagine that he was surprised. This happened exactly after the Zepp. This one was just a lot more volume.

Like Gemsey said; he was on Twitter immediately after for a reason.

 

Likewise, he knows what songs get requested; and that he's spent much of this tour deliberately ignoring them, or saying "yes" and then not playing them.

 

He gave his reason, I just am depressed by it. I believe a band should be appreciative of it's most passionate fans, not tell them they can't have a song slot or two because they have too "mainstream" of a crowd.

And it's not the first time he's told his fans this exact same thing.

 

What surprised me was his back and forth on the "what can I do?" amidst him giving reasons for not doing exactly that.

And he resorted to what he's always done, imo; getting people's hopes up about things he knows he won't follow through on (special gigs, requests, set list polls, etc) - we've been there before.

 

I'm more upset, tbh, about the things Matt said than about that actual setlist, which only really had one song on it I'd have given up seeing the Drones songs for, and his reasoning for the setlist.

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So, moving on... Someone said to do something "useful" other than forum bitching...

 

Matt left his Tweet-fest with a basically an "I don't know what to do..." Let me think. Then do nothing. As usual.

 

We've come up with a very elegant, simple solution.

 

We know Matt will check his Twitter again in four months, to either post a banal political article, or to say "awesome!" to a couple cover songs, and he will never read anything we post.

 

So... who's up for typing up a ton of papers that say "Pick 10-12 rare songs you're willing to play live. Have fans vote on them for each gig, and play the winner. Each person gets one vote. Make sure to do this at every gig; even the US. Especially the US. Fans will feel appreciated, loved and engaged."

 

... fold them all up into airplanes, and bomb the shit out the stage with them at the festivals?

 

Maybe write "READ ME" in big red letters on the tops.

 

This will also fit in with the "drones" theme of the gigs.

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Maybe his hands are tied in some way? I've never thought bands shouldn't listen to fans at all but it's got to be tiring for him getting this all the time - and I am thinking of when one of them apparently said a few years ago that they don't read this place because "they hate us" so after that I tried to imagine how I would feel - and probably not nice.

 

 

And ultimately if people didn't buy tickets they'd maybe reassess what they need to do. But that's never going to happen because there's evidently enough fans who are willing to put up with it or enough fans who would class Starlight as a song they want to hear every single time. I think we forget in all this that some of the songs we don't like as much are probably (a lot of) someone's favourite. For example, I was never keen on Citizen Erased but had to deal with people whining about not getting that one for years even though I personally was sick of it :p

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Haha!! A bunch of us did a similar thing on the Resistance tour, we bombed the stage with beer mats :chuckle: I do believe we got MK Ultra played...

 

I can't believe they really think we hate them here :chuckle: And they know what we're like, and they knew we'd all do our nut over that set list. The other day Glen told a hardcore muser friend to tell us they're going to play Showbiz in full. :LOL: I think they know we have a sense of humour about it.

 

I think the only thing that really worries them is that they'll lose the casuals if they play the deep cuts, and they worry about crowd response etc. But they don't have to substitute the standards, just add a bit of hardcore seasoning.

Edited by Gemsy

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Haha!! A bunch of us did a similar thing on the Resistance tour, with beer mats :chuckle: I do believe we got MK Ultra played...

Beer mats fly quite well.

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"Pick 10-12 rare songs you're willing to play live.

 

Only thing there is you'd be relying on Matt/Muse to pick those songs using their own definition of 'rare', which could easily end up being Eurasia, Map, Blackout, Animals, Supremacy, Panic Station, UD, Revolt and Defector :chuckle: On a personal level as well, if there can be only one winner, I'd be worried about it just being CE at every gig.

 

If they were to do a small tour specifically dedicated to the idea, I might suggest doing a single poll of every song bar the every-gig-ers (Knights, Uprising, etc.) and any outright unplayable stuff. Whatever the Top 10 is, rotate between them throughout the tour with, say, 4 every night. Or just use the Top 5 and play all of them at every gig.

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Maybe his hands are tied in some way? I've never thought bands shouldn't listen to fans at all but it's got to be tiring for him getting this all the time - and I am thinking of when one of them apparently said a few years ago that they don't read this place because "they hate us" so after that I tried to imagine how I would feel - and probably not nice.

 

 

And ultimately if people didn't buy tickets they'd maybe reassess what they need to do. But that's never going to happen because there's evidently enough fans who are willing to put up with it or enough fans who would class Starlight as a song they want to hear every single time. I think we forget in all this that some of the songs we don't like as much are probably (a lot of) someone's favourite. For example, I was never keen on Citizen Erased but had to deal with people whining about not getting that one for years even though I personally was sick of it :p

 

I really stopped caring about the band's feelings when they said they hated playing in the US, and disliked all their mainstream fans.

 

I absolutely don't think it's unreasonable to ask for balanced set lists. At all.

Crossing a song off the US setlists that you know fans are begging and begging for because casual fans didn't know it, and then dropping the slot because you're out of hits the "masses" know is petty, and unacceptable.

 

Anyways, tying in with point A there... if they're disdainful of their new Madness-style fans... Why on earth are they so determined to please them, and only them, at the same gigs they're complaining about?

If it were me, I'd want to reach out to the people who care.

 

Haha!! A bunch of us did a similar thing on the Resistance tour, with beer mats :chuckle: I do believe we got MK Ultra played...

 

There you go!

Who's on it? :chuckle:

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I've been on the other side of trying to please an audience that is never pleased, from having friends that deal with that sort of thing, in different media though. I can sympathize with the confusion.

 

It's not really worth trying to figure out what Matt was thinking during his twitter posts. It's Twitter, not a conference. It's telling enough that everyone's interpretation of what was between the lines has fallen nicely with all the other arguments they've made on this issue. I'll see where it goes.

 

Hard to find universally liked fan favorites, but in general people seem to want rock. There was even the recent consensus that Starlight would be more acceptable if it was played the way it was a decade ago. The arena tour had a lot of downtime, both literally and just energy-wise.

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Only thing there is you'd be relying on Matt/Muse to pick those songs using their own definition of 'rare', which could easily end up being Eurasia, Map, Blackout, Animals, Supremacy, Panic Station, UD, Revolt and Defector :chuckle: On a personal level as well, if there can be only one winner, I'd be worried about it just being CE at every gig.

 

If they were to do a small tour specifically dedicated to the idea, I might suggest doing a single poll of every song bar the every-gig-ers (Knights, Uprising, etc.) and any outright unplayable stuff. Whatever the Top 10 is, rotate between them throughout the tour with, say, 4 every night. Or just use the Top 5 and play all of them at every gig.

 

Even if Matt picked those songs you listed, I'd be okay with it. I don't LIKE most of them, but they've become rarities this tour, and it would show the band is trying to reach out, at least.

They know what rare stuff people want to hear, imo, they successfully pull them out at the (non-US) Psycho Tour, and Zepp and Zepp 2.

I'd be willing to trust Matt to pick some decent ones.

And if CE gets voted in every single gig... that's still democratic, and I'd stand by it.

 

They're never GOING to do a "rarities tour" and it will be limited to a couple of off the cuff or last minute gigs in one geographic area, that no one can really get to.

 

I'd much, much rather have the band show that they're willing to show their appreciation in some way to their dedicated fan base at all gigs, even if it's just one song that I didn't vote for and don't care for.

That's enough for me.

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Only thing there is you'd be relying on Matt/Muse to pick those songs using their own definition of 'rare', which could easily end up being Eurasia, Map, Blackout, Animals, Supremacy, Panic Station, UD, Revolt and Defector :chuckle: On a personal level as well, if there can be only one winner, I'd be worried about it just being CE at every gig.

 

Considering he just played what he considers a "rarities setlist", and what most of us considers a "rarities setlist", I think he knows. And as a side, when CE became more common in the arenas and festivals people were pleased, so it's better than nothing if the only outcome is a nice staple.

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They know.

 

And honestly, I'm sick of hearing about what this band hates.

They hate their message board.

They hate playing in the US.

They hate when casuals don't sing along to the songs.

They hate having to just play songs everyone knows.

 

Bands are in this to please the fans. It shouldn't be so obvious that they're disdainful of them.

 

This has struck a nerve with a lot of people, and it's not reading into the Tweets to take away the fact that Matt has said he's unwilling to put himself out there and play something that might be new to some people.

 

The band is of course free to do what they want, but I find that a piss poor attitude for them to have.

 

Fans are the reason bands exist... I don't think it's out of line to wish that this one would be willing to make a small gesture to make fans feel appreciated for their money and support. (and not hated)

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And if CE gets voted in every single gig... that's still democratic, and I'd stand by it.

 

Oh yeah, it'd be democratic, can't argue with that. Nowt wrong with people voting for it either, if that'd be their choice. Just might feel like a bit of a waste, considering it's usually in rotation to a reasonable extent anyway. Maybe I only feel like that because of I feel about CE live in general though :chuckle:

 

They're never GOING to do a "rarities tour" and it will be limited to a couple of off the cuff or last minute gigs in one geographic area, that no one can really get to.

 

To be fair, the Psycho Tour wasn't far off being an out-and-out rarities tour. Around 4 rarities/oldies a night isn't too far off what I suggested either so I don't think it'd be too unrealistic. Just maybe make it a teensy bit longer and not UK-focused.

 

Considering he just played what he considers a "rarities setlist", and what most of us considers a "rarities setlist", I think he knows.

 

Oh, he definitely knows. Given free rein though, it'd be easy for him to skimp out and choose easier stuff over anything he just can't be arsed with. The 2010 polls were evidence enough of that.

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It isn't 2010 though, and since the last tour every song that has been requested that wasn't flat out refused has shown up somewhere.

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I absolutely think the Psycho Tour qualified as a "rarities" type thing... I'm just not sure it qualified as a "tour." :chuckle:

 

It was a handful of gigs, announced at the last minute, that still no one really suspected would be filled with rarities, all in one basic area.

 

I have a very hard time lumping the two US ones in with that, because they just weren't the same. They were more on par with the songs Europe was getting anyways, and really showed Muse's opinion of even their "hardcore" US fans.

Also, two gigs for the entire US, with one having drastically less tickets available, was quite the ball punch.

 

Which also raises the issue, even if they did this "rarities" tour... would anyone be able to get in?

It's not like they're going to magically enforce this "hardcores only" thing, and there would never be enough tickets to go around.

 

I still think sucking it up and playing a song or two at every gig is the perfect balance. And like I've said... one that nearly every single other band I've ever gone to see has actually done. It doesn't end the band; the casuals don't revolt.

 

If Matt would be willing to extend the olive branch to all the gigs, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on not intentionally fucking it up.

(Classic abusive relationship stuff. :chuckle: )

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If they did a rarities tour they'd need a sizable step-up in venue size from the Psycho Tour - 5000 capacity should do okay I think.

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Matt's original "arena tour and clubs/theaters" would work pretty well, too.

 

Play an arena gig in a city, play a theater gig in the same city or nearby with a better setlist, give them time in between to set up their overbearing stage show for the next city.

 

Could be great in the US; play the arena gigs in the few cities they still can, play clubs in all the rest of the country in between the big cities.

Spread out the arena ones enough that it's not too terrible of a drive between them.

 

But, again, Muse was playing US arena gigs that barely broke 6,000 tickets sold... would a gig of that size put them back into the "falls flat" territory?

Because yeah, 1500 capacity gigs didn't, and isn't going to, cut it.

 

Rock bands here typically play 3k-4k capacity clubs, and play tons and tons more gigs. I've seen one band play Iowa four times in one album cycle. Iowa.

 

(It's just all... never going to happen.)

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Say they do start playing idk Spiral Static every few gigs. How long before someone starts moaning "that's great but I really want to hear Con-Science instead" - btw I looked it up and that one has never actually been played live at least not in the era when anyone cared enough to record it was played. Even with my 16 years in fandom I learned something today! Anyway, that says to me it's unlikely to ever be played. Or how about some gigs get Spiral Static but your gig gets Futurism but you like Spiral Static more. It's happened to me...songs I like have been played at gigs I wasn't at but equally I've heard stuff other people didn't necessarily get.

 

I feel like Muse can't actually win this one with everyone unless they do end up doing a one-off tour of request gigs. And even then I reckon there'd still be complaints if they had to bin off one or two because they're out of practice or don't really want to play that one for whatever reason.

 

This, really. I swear that yesterday after futurism (or micro cuts, can't remember), some people were yelling "DEAD STAR". Really?!

 

Also, not saying that they shouldn't try and include more rarities (whatever that means) at regular gigs, but saying that this was done on purpose to piss off everyone that went to the arena shows is just ridiculous. They actually wanted to do something special for Montreux, but were quite anxious/nervous about the reaction they would get from the crowd.

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That's a problem, if everytime they do a special thing a shitstorm is going to happen,, then these baddass gigs are likely to disappear.

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So... they wanted to do something special for Montreux... but not on purpose...

:chuckle:

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