MartianSpaghettiRider Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I'm English and I agree they give the US a hard time. I think in general they tend to play their weaker tracks live as staples and that is furstrating Oh... I really thought you were American (I'm navigating the forum through a data-saving browser for smartphones, so I can't see all the details about IDs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Little Animal Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I moved to the US from Holland 10 years ago. I went from amazing OoS and Absolution tours (seriously, best concerts of my life) to a mediocre BHaR tour (the sound and crowd were shit) to this crap. No fair Here's to hoping tonight's set will be unexpectedly brilliant. It's sad when I look forward most to the visuals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraffah Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 That's what sucks about this tour, sure TiRO and Hysteria are alright, but the only killer songs are The Globalist/Reapers (if it's played lol)/Psycho/Knights of Cydonia and possibly Dead Inside depending on the vocals that night. That's less than a third of their current set. Actually, I'll add in Mercy just because of the streamers and it being a good, heavy pop rock song. Handler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halo eighteen Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Except that's not true. Drones was the first #1 in America and the arena shows have the same crowds they've had, just deceptive due to the stage size. Muse is losing the die-hards in the US and their more musically inclined crowds. Instead, they're getting the pop fans, thus the dead crowds and shitty sets. #1 album but less sales than the 2nd law. Drones just happened to not have as much competition the first week of release, hence a higher chart position. Phoenix is the only show to have official boxscore info for this tour so far, and it was 3,000 less people than their 2012 show, 6K vs 9K. That's a significant decrease to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander DeLarge Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Handler? Forgot about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It's a sense of frustration rather than injustice. People get weirdly worked up about this issue. My original point, which sparked the discussion, was actually even more directed towards other fans; I get a bit pissy when non-US fans are so blasé about "well, it's the US - it'll get better when it gets to us." But, the prevalence of that sort of statement really does bring home that there *is* a difference. (Also, as far as "inferior" I purely meant set length; getting a shorter gig would always be inferior, unless you're bored and want to go home... and then you don't count in my argument.) There isn't really any reason for doing shorter US set. Not a good or acceptable one. Even if we say "sure, they have to do different sets" there's still nothing in there saying they can't play the same length, which would solve the problem entirely, because they'd have more room for different songs. It's not like they're not playing Madness, Starlight, SMBH and KoC in Europe/UK. The difference lies in the greater flexibility with longer set length. Not to say there haven't been discrepancies in UK sets; just that the poor ones tend to be better than our good ones. I don't like hearing the band say "oh, we'll play that once we get to another country." Hearing them complain about paying fans in the US gigs disgusts me to the point I didn't really enjoy my first T2L gig because of it. I was iffy about the 2nd night song requests in NA, because it shows the band knows what fans want, but is only willing to play them under weird circumstances. (And is also hilarious that there's a good overlap with the crowd that got their requests played, and the ones saying "fuck off, they don't play to the 10 fans, they play to the 10,000 fans. Gotta love it.) As for corporate "conspiracy" honestly the UK is getting the brunt of that, no? These gigs cost exactly as much as they think they can get an arena full of people to reliably pay. UK is a ton more than the US for that reason alone. They don't deserve something better, they've just been sending the message to management that they're willing to pay. Same with VIP, sadly. They saw a niche to charge people extra and they took it. The SA gigs prove it; they charged a sick amount of money for 15/16 songs, and a festival stage set up, and the reason was "isn't this what other bands charge?" I don't LIKE shit like that going down, but it would be more easy to swallow if it wasn't the same band getting people to buy albums by appealing to anti-corporate sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 #1 album but less sales than the 2nd law. Drones just happened to not have as much competition the first week of release, hence a higher chart position. Phoenix is the only show to have official boxscore info for this tour so far, and it was 3,000 less people than their 2012 show, 6K vs 9K. That's a significant decrease to me. Drones #1 was impressive, but it was also yeah, due to great release timing and diminished album sales across the board (unless you're Taylor Swift.) And a few weeks after release it was off the Top 200 entirely. Sales were definitely softer than previous albums. Gigs are selling well in some areas, still. And there's a lot of "what if" variables that make it too hard to tell. A gig sold out in a town, how many tickets WOULD they have sold? Would that have filled the 360 arena? If there's a second show, how many were repeat people? etc They're not selling as well in all areas, clearly, even with the increased capacity figured in. And if they thought ticket sales were strong, or equal to T2L, they wouldn't have cut out so much of the country. And radio impact was much, much lower for Drones' singles, unfortunately. I respect the band's desire to do their own thing, and not become a "mainstream singles band," actually. I know they could do it if they wanted to go that way, and their producer this time could have made that a reality. I just wish they would do a tour in line with the reality over here, and maybe then they'd be less disappointed with the crowds, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) As for corporate "conspiracy" honestly the UK is getting the brunt of that, no? These gigs cost exactly as much as they think they can get an arena full of people to reliably pay. UK is a ton more than the US for that reason alone. They don't deserve something better, they've just been sending the message to management that they're willing to pay. Same with VIP, sadly. They saw a niche to charge people extra and they took it. The SA gigs prove it; they charged a sick amount of money for 15/16 songs, and a festival stage set up, and the reason was "isn't this what other bands charge?" I don't LIKE shit like that going down, but it would be more easy to swallow if it wasn't the same band getting people to buy albums by appealing to anti-corporate sentiments. I agree with most of what you're saying. The stuff the band/management/whoever have pulled with regards to VIP tickets, prices and sets at times this year has really disappointed me. In fact, I can't think of anything they've done that's disappointed me as much as those SA gigs. I'm far from being a Muse evangelist but even I didn't think they'd ever stoop to effectively treating their gigs and fans like cash cows like that. That said, I do think we (the UK) deserve a bump up in sets when they come over here next year, considering the prices. The US shouldn't get shit on at all in the first place, don't get me wrong, and I hate that they're charging more here 'just because they can' but I'd say it'd be fair if we get a little bit extra to compensate for how much extra we've had to pay. If we got exactly the same despite being forced to pay around £20+ more, that'd be a bit harsh imo. Edited December 16, 2015 by Jobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander DeLarge Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I respect the band's desire to do their own thing, and not become a "mainstream singles band," actually. I know they could do it if they wanted to go that way, and their producer this time could have made that a reality. I just wish they would do a tour in line with the reality over here, and maybe then they'd be less disappointed with the crowds, too. That's what's mind boggling to me, they release this weird concept album about a heartbroken sap that gets sucked into the military after a terrible relationship, becomes a global superpower, destroys the planet and ends with a hymn you'd hear as ambiance in a cathedral, then fans are supposed to accept that the live shows are attempting to cater to a different audience (the ones that don't know anything that isn't played on KISS FM, let alone listen to their latest release in entirety). Am I supposed to separate their releases from their live stuff? If so, why? That sucks. A lot of people make the reference to Coldplay, but I have yet to hear Coldplay's Origin of Symmetry so I don't think that's a decent comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frutiger75 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Phoenix is the only show to have official boxscore info for this tour so far, and it was 3,000 less people than their 2012 show, 6K vs 9K. That's a significant decrease to me. do you think that announcing the gig 5.5 months ahead of time (2012) vs. 2.5 months (2015) had any impact on attendance figures? i do. granted, i admit there are other things at play that factored into the decrease, but the lead time difference can't be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 That's what's mind boggling to me, they release this weird concept album about a heartbroken sap that gets sucked into the military after a terrible relationship, becomes a global superpower, destroys the planet and ends with a hymn you'd hear as ambiance in a cathedral, then fans are supposed to accept that the live shows are attempting to cater to a different audience (the ones that don't know anything that isn't played on KISS FM, let alone listen to their latest release in entirety). Am I supposed to separate their releases from their live stuff? If so, why? That sucks. A lot of people make the reference to Coldplay, but I have yet to hear Coldplay's Origin of Symmetry so I don't think that's a decent comparison. I didn't realize how much I'd gotten my hopes up about Matt blathering on about playing a set based around the Drones concept, using other songs to supplement a sort of loose narrative until the Mexican gigs. I love the album, and it would have been so cool to try and bring that theme and atmosphere to a concept gig. I'm still not horribly upset about the current content of the setlists, tbh, just the length of the gigs themselves, and the fact that they do treat us differently, and barely conceal the fact, sometimes. Hurtful. do you think that announcing the gig 5.5 months ahead of time (2012) vs. 2.5 months (2015) had any impact on attendance figures? i do. granted, i admit there are other things at play that factored into the decrease, but the lead time difference can't be ignored. Yes. Absolutely. Still the band's management's fault. And doesn't explain why they did such a short tour of dates clustered in certain areas. They had projected sales being lower, and made decisions to cut those areas for a reason. Jobby, I don't disagree with you, at heart, but it shouldn't be an arms race of "get what you pay for." I think they should play consistently to their fans no matter where they perform. I'm as much or more of a fan (of the albums) as most of those UK crowds, and I wasn't given an option to pay more for a longer gig, or a rarities slot or something. I'd have paid those prices in a heartbeat. It's the $2000 flights that are the limit there. Shit, the $300 flight to see them in the US is a bit hard. Shit, if they did that, and the US crowds voted "no, knock off $30 and let me go home early..." that would deflect the blame and I'd have to go along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel_Tufnel Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So Oakland is getting Hysteria, PIB, Resistance and USOE? No Reapers, Bliss, Citizen Erased, Apocalypse Please? Uh oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPickles-- Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 do you think that announcing the gig 5.5 months ahead of time (2012) vs. 2.5 months (2015) had any impact on attendance figures? i do. granted, i admit there are other things at play that factored into the decrease, but the lead time difference can't be ignored. The Phoenix gig was actually announced less than 1.5 months away. So even less ahead of time than the other US gigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Little Animal Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So Oakland is getting Hysteria, PIB, Resistance and USOE? No Reapers, Bliss, Citizen Erased, Apocalypse Please? Uh oh. Nono. Feeling fucking Good in the piano slot. I'm done. Only European gigs from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozza Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Nono. Feeling fucking Good in the piano slot. I'm done. Only European gigs from now on. But did the crowd sing-along to their unexpected Buble cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander DeLarge Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So, Sacramento 2010 was universally cited as the worst set ever played. Can we agree that we'd all die for Sacramento 2010 now that we've seen this tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozza Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So, Sacramento 2010 was universally cited as the worst set ever played. Can we agree that we'd all die for Sacramento 2010 now that we've seen this tonight? Matt hates California Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solemndrummer Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Look at Sacramento 2010 set... Ok no rarities but NB, SS, US, Hysteria, PIB, all in the same set.. It's still FAR better than what we have now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanp16 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Lol Bliss was on the set but was crossed out and replaced with PIB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozza Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Look at Sacramento 2010 set... Ok no rarities but NB, SS, US, Hysteria, PIB, all in the same set.. It's still FAR better than what we have now It's all relative. At the time that was the low point Also shows Muse haven't really made any 'killer' songs since 2006 Lol Bliss was on the set but was crossed out and replaced with PIB. Could have played both and seriously get rid of Resistance and UD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kueller Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Matt hates California Bay Area and LA are one of the more consistent areas, even if they don't get the absolute best it's rarely ever the worst. Lol Bliss was on the set but was crossed out and replaced with PIB. The fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regilistic Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Lol Bliss was on the set but was crossed out and replaced with PIB. Wat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maaria Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So dropping Reapers wasn't just a one-off. Lol Bliss was on the set but was crossed out and replaced with PIB. Oh wow. Fucking rekt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kueller Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 To be fair, PiB was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Little Animal Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Matt's voice was great throughout as well I think. Bass was a bit low in the mix except for TIRO. Chris' harmonies in Psycho were way off, but he was great everywhere else. Hysteria was actually a highlight for me, which is sad, but it was solid. Apart from the broken drones, the screen projections broken on two sides during UD, which made it even more dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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