Turkeyleader Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 More like Irrational Defenders vs. Irrational Criticizers With the moderates on either side sitting it out Contrary to popular belief around here, the critics don't have a monopoly on rationalism nor do the defenders have one on over-reaction and hyperbole. I just wanted to quote this, some of the criticism is a bit much on here at times. I came away from Glastonbury very happy despite Guiding Light and then coming on here afterwards and seeing all the criticism almost spoils the memory, I think I just need to stop reading the festival/stadium thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 For me, personally, I've been lucky enough to see a LOT of gigs in the past few years so I now have a good idea in my mind of what makes a good gig. The last three times I've seen Muse - all on the tour for The Resistance - have all been massively flawed. I reckon the review in the NME could, give or take some sentences, apply to almost any of the gigs that I saw. What's more frustrating was that Muse were actually a much better live band because of the things that most of us are criticising - setlist rotation, energy in their performances etc. If you're upset by mine and anyone else's criticisms, then by all means disagree. I think what's annoying is some of the styles of argument that's going on i.e. the heart ruling the head. I also don't think a lot of the people appalled by the naysayers realise exactly that a lot of the naysayers have been (and, in some cases, still are) Muse fans for years, so we've got previous knowledge/experience of Muse live to base judgement on. It doesn't make us better people, but it does give us more perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Regret Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 This isn't really a setlist complaint, but if I were a member of Muse I would be fuck bored of playing NB, FG, PIB TIRO, SS and Hysteria by now, and would have to mix up the sets just for my sanity, not even for the fans, but so touring wasn't a drag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maneachicken Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 This isn't really a setlist complaint, but if I were a member of Muse I would be fuck bored of playing NB, FG, PIB TIRO, SS and Hysteria by now, and would have to mix up the sets just for my sanity, not even for the fans, but so touring wasn't a drag. I made the point a while back that the same old setlists were probably contributing to their bored appearances throughout the arena tour. The early/mid BHaR tour was much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I made the point a while back that the same old setlists were probably contributing to their bored appearances throughout the arena tour. The early/mid BHaR tour was much better. Agreed. The European arena tours was probably the best tour they've ever done. So much setlist rotation and variation and the three nights I saw them at Wembley Arena were all top performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyleader Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Well I'm not really new to Muse, this was my 8th time seeing them since 2003 and I fully agree with all the criticisms of the last 2 albums and the poor setlist choices, I just don't think it's quite as dramatically bad as it's made out on here. Certainly not 2/5 stars bad as this review states, all though I wasn't at T so maybe that was an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Well I'm not really new to Muse, this was my 8th time seeing them since 2003 and I fully agree with all the criticisms of the last 2 albums and the poor setlist choices, I just don't think it's quite as dramatically bad as it's made out on here. Certainly not 2/5 stars bad as this review states, all though I wasn't at T so maybe that was an exception. The review was never given a rating. You might be confusing the NME review with the one in Metro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyleader Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I guess so, my bad, way past my bed time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobius Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 You reckon its a kind of "trouble at the top" syndrome they are having? They have nothing left to conquer in terms of festivals and tours that they are just well, stagnating as they no longer have nothing to aim for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 You reckon its a kind of "trouble at the top" syndrome they are having? They have nothing left to conquer in terms of festivals and tours that they are just well, stagnating as they no longer have nothing to aim for? It's definitely a factor I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Chizzlebrox Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 You reckon its a kind of "trouble at the top" syndrome they are having? They have nothing left to conquer in terms of festivals and tours that they are just well, stagnating as they no longer have nothing to aim for? It's definitely a factor I think. There's still that gig on the moon to aim for. Perhaps we can give them just enough fuel to get there, then leave them there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 You reckon its a kind of "trouble at the top" syndrome they are having? They have nothing left to conquer in terms of festivals and tours that they are just well, stagnating as they no longer have nothing to aim for? I think it's part of the problem. I think there is also an issue of having a lot of pressure and high expectations and not always knowing how to handle them, so mistakes/missteps are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dip Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 It'd help if they fucked off for 5 years or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 About the differences between Phoenix and Vegas - in Phoenix you had issues with security getting in, didn't you? While in Vegas things went smoother? So your individual situation was different at the two gigs, wasn't it? You don't think that made a difference? Also, if I recall, people said that the crowd in Phoenix was fairly dead but not so in Vegas - do you think that also may have had an impact on the show? Finally, there was only a difference of one song, but wasn't that one song a song you kinda hate? Not really. Security really spoiled my first Stade de France gig and I admit for that one for the first couple of hours I just wanted to go back to the hotel and not be there. Tbh the security was bad at Pheonix but I still got the barrier spot I wanted and I had security issues in Vegas when the woman couldn't work her scanner and I saw about 20 people pass in front of me when she was trying. Yes the crowd was different but so was I because of Muse's performance I was bored and couldn't real get into it as it felt like a pretty mechanical and paint by numbers performance. To both Mozza and L I think there are a lot of factors that go into making one show more enjoyable than another, and then of course one person can enjoy a show while another person didn't. So I don't think laying all (or most) of the blame on the band's performance/perceived laziness is right. Don't get me wrong, I've seen valid criticisms, and I have a few myself, but I think that people are oversimplifying it when they say that mixing up a setlist is all that needs to be done in order to "fix" it so that every show all three of us go to is equally enjoyable for each of us. Yeah, the performances were different but also you got CE and Bliss instead of GL and FG... I did enjoy the mixed up setlist, though. I <3 plug in baby, so I'd love to see it open.... .......and with that I've written a book of a response. This is what happens when I get sidetracked and then come back to a post - it gets longer If I was this prolific with my thesis, I'd have graduated by now We all have different perception of what an enjoyable gig is and what should be changed and I can only comment on what I believe needs to be improved. Yes we got CE and Bliss tbh the first time I heard CE was at Glastonbury so I should have been very excited when I heard it back then but the performance meant that I didn't, I enjoyed it a lot more the 2nd time around at Oxegen because the performance of that song was a lot tighter. I am giving you an unofficial Museboard Phd for that thesis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saracene Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 This review doesn't seem to be criticising Muse's performance at T in the Park alone. It's saying that they've saturated the market by headlining every festival and by playing the same older songs and blasting out the new songs that the reviewer doesn't like. Yes, that's pretty much it. It just seems that for some people Muse have either become overly familiar altogether, or they just don't like the new material which is bound to affect their view of the live show. And I think it is especially a factor for a magazine like NME which thrives on "new". Oh, and I automatically dislike a writer that puts "we" and "us" into their review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozza Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Nothing worse than coming back from a gig slightly disappointed and then discovering a few days later that another gig got the exact same setlist but with 2 extra older songs tagged on in another encore. Still bitter about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uccellino Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 I just wanted to quote this, some of the criticism is a bit much on here at times. I came away from Glastonbury very happy despite Guiding Light and then coming on here afterwards and seeing all the criticism almost spoils the memory, I think I just need to stop reading the festival/stadium thread. Yeah, it's pretty crap when loads of people slag off something you enjoyed but you have to remember that the likelihood is that there are loads of people who loved the Glasto performance as much as you, they're just not board members or can't be bothered to post. There were some very positive posts from some of the people who went though and it looked excellent on TV. I've seen Muse 5 times and loved every second of every gig. It's gonna be so weird seeing what people have to say about the LCCC gig after I've been, especially if I love it (which I probably will) and they all say it was terrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Not really. Security really spoiled my first Stade de France gig and I admit for that one for the first couple of hours I just wanted to go back to the hotel and not be there. Tbh the security was bad at Pheonix but I still got the barrier spot I wanted and I had security issues in Vegas when the woman couldn't work her scanner and I saw about 20 people pass in front of me when she was trying. Yes the crowd was different but so was I because of Muse's performance I was bored and couldn't real get into it as it felt like a pretty mechanical and paint by numbers performance. We all have different perception of what an enjoyable gig is and what should be changed and I can only comment on what I believe needs to be improved. Yes we got CE and Bliss tbh the first time I heard CE was at Glastonbury so I should have been very excited when I heard it back then but the performance meant that I didn't, I enjoyed it a lot more the 2nd time around at Oxegen because the performance of that song was a lot tighter. I am giving you an unofficial Museboard Phd for that thesis! yay honorary degree For your gigs, I guess I'd think that it's a bit of a "which came first" sort of thing... was the crowd dead because of the band, or was the band struggling because of the lack of enthusiasm from the crowd? I can't say, of course, because obviously I wasn't there. I know that my experience and enjoyment at 3 gigs varied because of my situation, while I think the band was fairly consistent (as was the setlist ) I have to be honest, I've never really seen any of the "dead" performances that people talk about. Some are more lively than others, but from vids and what I've seen in person, it seems like the lowest amount of energy is still pretty high.... i see people complaining and wonder if we're looking at the same videos. It reminds me of one TV appearance they did on the BBC, I was reading comments as it was happening and people were going on about how dead and tired the guys looked. By the time the vids finally made it to youtube I was expecting to see freakin' zombies, but I watched it and was like "umm... wat?" I didn't see it. When I looked hard I thought "well, yeah, I guess Matt's eyes are a little puffy :erm:" but if I hadn't read other people's comments beforehand, I wouldn't have noticed any issue with the performances at all. Maybe people are focusing on different things than I am, I don't know.. To some extent, it boils down to opinion and perception, and that's why I say that there's only so much the band can do. They're them, I'm me and you're you... all 5 of us could be in the same place, doing the same thing and have very different reactions to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forevermusic Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 This review doesn't seem to be criticising Muse's performance at T in the Park alone. It's saying that they've saturated the market by headlining every festival and by playing the same older songs and blasting out the new songs that the reviewer doesn't like. It therefore appears to apply to every gig since the start of The Resistance tour, because every one has had the standard SMBH, KOC, TIRO, PIB etc which she says are too familiar (although still great) and every one has had songs from The Resistance (which the reviewer can't stand by the sound of it). Oxegen would fall in the same category, unless the addition of Bliss and CE were 'unfamilar' enough to make a change from the usual suspects and didn't fall into the 'all systems constantly at full-on' performances that she complains about. I'm not criticising the review btw, just trying to understand what the reviewer would like to see from Muse. It may be that she thinks they should just play fewer festivals or mix up the set lists more or both. Maybe they should move from the festivals to their own shows exclusive barring one or two festival shows, like what U2 or AC/DC normally do. The fact this is a TR + greatest hits tour though is going to be a bore. After all there's only so long you can play Hysteria, TiRO, SMBH, Starlight et all at every gig before it becomes monotonuos, espicially to fans (this maybe why new New Born and Stockholm have been dropped at various points on the tour). Hopefulyl for next tour they'll realise this and be more ready to rotate hits. But what if they don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeSides Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 "run through of the familiar" well don't that say it all? meh i'm sort of dreading fall. someone asked me if i was going to the second staples center show. i'm not going to either one. anaheim and new mexico is really frakking pushing it sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiko Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Hmm... I always wondered why people who had something against Matt Bellamy, actually had something against Matt Bellamy, but with a quote like that, it's almost understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Hmm... I always wondered why people who had something against Matt Bellamy, actually had something against Matt Bellamy, but with a quote like that, it's almost understandable. heh... I was wondering what the context of that quote was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeSides Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 heh... I was wondering what the context of that quote was... which quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 which quote? I may have misunderstood Raiko, but I meant the one in the last pic of the original post About being unique... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeSides Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I may have misunderstood Raiko, but I meant the one in the last pic of the original post About being unique... oooh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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