NME: T in the Park review

[Mozza]

Tbh the only media type folk that have turned on them are NME and they still occasionally write nice stuff on their site and magazine. I haven't seen anybody else change their mind.

 

They may have lost a lot of fans in the past year but they've also gained a lot.

 

I've seen Q and the Metro be a bit iffy on Muse, and The Times.

 

Oh and Pitchfork but then unless you're Radiohead Pitchfork will hate you.

[Yellow Regret]

Single for the Olympics?

 

I was diving, you were in a position

Then our start gun fired like a neutron star collision

I have nothing left to lose

You took your time to choose

Then we told each other with no trace of fear that

 

The hurdles don't last forever forever

And if they fall, we'll look foolish together

Well I, I said never

Cause our run wouldn't be forever

 

The pole vault is broken, javelins fail to distance

We try to make get a gold in the boxing but no one wants a silver in discuss

Hail the showjumpers, padded and proud

Their horses will be loud

Then they'll overtake like the swimmers in an ocean

 

London is forever and we’ll try

We’ll try together

Well I, I said I could never

Cause our judo, could last forever

 

Now I’ve got nothing left to lose

You take your time to choose

I can release the hammer without a trace of fear

 

That my cycling won a gold medal

And Britain, we’ll be fourth together

Will I, I will never

Cause our olympics will be forever

 

Brilliant.

http://entertainment.stv.tv/music/160718-muse-want-to-rock-olympics/

[Max]

I've still seen a lot of Music publications wanking over them and their live shows.

 

I don't think they were ever treated as the best thing ever.

 

They were. Trust me, the NME of 2004-2007 was all over them like a bloody rash. They've also been in the good books of Q for a number of years as well being adored by websites like Drowned In Sound and newspapers like The Guardian (and their Sunday edition, The Observer).

[control]

Seems fair enough.

 

There was alot of positive media hype before The

Resistance, and they were riding on a wave of popularity due to Twilight and Guitar Hero etc. The media now seem to be turning on them, and I think their popularity will decrease. Which is a shame, as I think the next album will be far better than The Resistance.

 

Well, that's not going to be that difficult as a lot of TR is pretty awful IMO

And there's always been mixed media reviews for Muse, I read a lot of the UK, US and continental Europe music mags/sites and Muse are not exactly 'universally loved'.

 

I don't think they would pull out a performance because loads of people of the board would be there... since when do they care if we are at a gig and care about pleasing us. I think it was down to the fact that they were just back from Greece and just couldn't be asked that day.

 

Did you mean 'arsed'? Anyhoo, I think that is exactly the reason behind the T performance...

[Ross]

Tbh the only media type folk that have turned on them are NME and they still occasionally write nice stuff on their site and magazine. I haven't seen anybody else change their mind.

They may have lost a lot of fans in the past year but they've also gained a lot.

How many of them are going to stick around after the twilight furore's died down though? that could be an "interesting " development

[Mozza]

How many of them are going to stick around after the twilight furore's died down though? that could be an "interesting " development

 

Depends how far into that area they go. They could lose a huge chunk of their old fanbase but gain so many 'other' fans that it's a win for them. This place will be hideous for all the fighting but Muse aren't going to care

[nohopeinfear]

I hear that Radiohead are recruiting more worshippers.

 

Or "cunts" as they're formally known

[bliss.]

Maybe they were in a bad day or something.. too much drinks in Greece

who went to the Oxegen are saying that they were amazing and I ready a lot of good reviews about them in other festivals too

 

But I hope that Matt is being serious about the new album direction and I think that they need to take a rest and desapear a bit before release a new album (and after come to my country ) so people will miss them a little...now they are all over the place, maybe some people are getting tired of them (I'm not )

[Yellow Regret]

D This place will be hideous for all the fighting but Muse aren't going to care

 

Has there ever been a full on Banter vs Main?

[L.]

Maybe they were in a bad day or something.. too much drinks in Greece

who went to the Oxegen are saying that they were amazing and I ready a lot of good reviews about them in other festivals too

 

But I hope that Matt is being serious about the new album direction and I think that they need to take a rest and desapear a bit before release a new album (and after come to my country ) so people will miss them a little...now they are all over the place, maybe some people are getting tired of them (I'm not )

 

But that's one of the problem there are either really good or bad and there is no telling what kind of performance you will get, it is luck of the draw... It is not a one off it has been happening a few times now.

 

I too though hope that they take a long break after the end of the tour so they can properly work on the new album and don't do a rush job.

[Mozza]

Has there ever been a full on Banter vs Main?

 

Quite a lot of people in banter still absolutely love Muse so I doubt there will be. It's more the irrational defenders v criticisers, which can't be neatly drawn into a simple banter/main muse divide.

[Pip]

I think that anyone expecting great things at Wembley will be bitterly disappointed.

By 'great' I mean something different to the other stadium gigs. I've been to three already and enjoyed them but they were not outstanding in terms of setlists, not at all.

 

I'm really looking forward to Manchester and Wembley but I know the shows will differ barely at all from the stadium gigs I've already attended.

[dead-duck]

But that's one of the problem there are either really good or bad and there is no telling what kind of performance you will get, it is luck of the draw... It is not a one off it has been happening a few times now.

But is this something that has happened in the past? I've only been following them since toward the end of the BH&R tour, so I can't say...

 

All I know about "old muse" is what I've seen on youtube - but then, the ones I'm going to find and remember are going to be the ones that are special. If someone looked at clips from Rock in Rio, SDF night 2 and Oxegen, they wouldn't see anything wrong with what the band is doing right now.

 

To be honest, I think it's asking a bit much for every single performance to be groundbreaking and unique and completely different and above everything everyone's seen before. It's sad, but it's true. There are going to be off nights, average nights, and blow-everyone-away nights. Which one of those gigs you go to is the luck of the draw.... I don't see that as being a flaw in the band, but more like reality. I'm not sure I would believe that 95% of the performances that they did prior to the release of TR were amazing and life altering, then suddenly since last Sept 75% have been suckage.... I think part of the complaint has to do with people's opinions of the newer music rather than the band's performances.

 

Like for me, I think at this point I'd rather hear an average performance of Dead Star than a groundbreaking performance of Guiding Light.... I think in the end a lot of it boils down to the songs themselves...

[L.]

I think that anyone expecting great things at Wembley will be bitterly disappointed.

By 'great' I mean something different to the other stadium gigs. I've been to three already and enjoyed them but they were not outstanding in terms of setlists, not at all.

 

I'm really looking forward to Manchester and Wembley but I know the shows will differ barely at all from the stadium gigs I've already attended.

 

+1

 

I am not expecting anything different for Wembley, it will be the same as the other stadium gigs. I imagine one night will get Bliss and the other CE and then one will get MOTP and one will get MK. I just hope they bring it on performance wise.

[dead-duck]

Quite a lot of people in banter still absolutely love Muse so I doubt there will be. It's more the irrational defenders v criticisers, which can't be neatly drawn into a simple banter/main muse divide.

More like

 

Irrational Defenders vs. Irrational Criticizers

 

 

With the moderates on either side sitting it out

 

Contrary to popular belief around here, the critics don't have a monopoly on rationalism nor do the defenders have one on over-reaction and hyperbole.

[Mozza]

But is this something that has happened in the past? I've only been following them since toward the end of the BH&R tour, so I can't say...

 

All I know about "old muse" is what I've seen on youtube - but then, the ones I'm going to find and remember are going to be the ones that are special. If someone looked at clips from Rock in Rio, SDF night 2 and Oxegen, they wouldn't see anything wrong with what the band is doing right now.

 

To be honest, I think it's asking a bit much for every single performance to be groundbreaking and unique and completely different and above everything everyone's seen before. It's sad, but it's true. There are going to be off nights, average nights, and blow-everyone-away nights. Which one of those gigs you go to is the luck of the draw.... I don't see that as being a flaw in the band, but more like reality. I'm not sure I would believe that 95% of the performances that they did prior to the release of TR were amazing and life altering, then suddenly since last Sept 75% have been suckage.... I think part of the complaint has to do with people's opinions of the newer music rather than the band's performances.

 

Like for me, I think at this point I'd rather hear an average performance of Dead Star than a groundbreaking performance of Guiding Light.... I think in the end a lot of it boils down to the songs themselves...

 

It's more consistency. From my part, I went to one gig on the arena tour on the BHAR tour. Every other gig in the UK got at least 18 songs with Forced In as an extra. Some got 19. Every gig got Bliss and something like CE or Butterflies and Hurricanes or Apocalypse Please as well as a lot of BHAR stuff and the usuals (New Born, PiB, TIRO, SS, Hysteria). I got BHAR in order plus the regulars and Sunburn (which was so regularly played on that tour anyway). So 17 songs with nothing special bar a hideous performance of Exo-Politics and no Bliss. That was them being consistent at every gig except the one I went to which was flat and had a poor setlist. So already my opinion of Muse wasn't very high after that.

 

On this tour, some gigs get 18 songs, some get 16. Then some just get new album stuff plus greatest hits. Others get Ruled By Secrecy, Bliss, CE. It's that lack of consistency across the gigs that winds people up. I don't think there would be so much setlist beef if people could see that they were giving other things a go, obviously everyone has their favourites but to see say Dead Star being given a run out after being overlooked would be nice (Cave is a good example of this, never been my favourite but seeing the Teignmouth set I was impressed 'wow Cave'). If the band play the same songs every night then they'll get bored and it wont excite them, every gig is just going through the motions and that increases the chances of a dud gig.

[Don'tPostThePear]

that suit is horrible

[L.]

But is this something that has happened in the past? I've only been following them since toward the end of the BH&R tour, so I can't say...

 

All I know about "old muse" is what I've seen on youtube - but then, the ones I'm going to find and remember are going to be the ones that are special. If someone looked at clips from Rock in Rio, SDF night 2 and Oxegen, they wouldn't see anything wrong with what the band is doing right now.

 

To be honest, I think it's asking a bit much for every single performance to be groundbreaking and unique and completely different and above everything everyone's seen before. It's sad, but it's true. There are going to be off nights, average nights, and blow-everyone-away nights. Which one of those gigs you go to is the luck of the draw.... I don't see that as being a flaw in the band, but more like reality. I'm not sure I would believe that 95% of the performances that they did prior to the release of TR were amazing and life altering, then suddenly since last Sept 75% have been suckage.... I think part of the complaint has to do with people's opinions of the newer music rather than the band's performances.

 

Like for me, I think at this point I'd rather hear an average performance of Dead Star than a groundbreaking performance of Guiding Light.... I think in the end a lot of it boils down to the songs themselves...

 

I personally don't ask for groundbreaking performance every night, what I am talking about is a lack of consistency. I am talking about TR tour and performance not the choice of songs. For example Pheonix and Vegas had pretty much the exact same setlist (apart from 1 song). The performance at Phoenix was abysmal (Muse just going through the motions) whereas Vegas was fantastic (real energy on stage)... needless to say which I enjoyed the most.

 

And to be fair Oxegen didn't get any songs they haven't played at festivals before but a bit of shake up of the order and an energetic performance (see KoC video) shows that it can make a hell of a difference.

[shadowkay]

I predict a return to form on the next album given what they've been saying recently in interviews.

 

I thought that for the last two albums

[New Born Lee]

Well when you're a great live band like Muse who will be asked to many different venues because of their bombastic live shows, the regular is bound to feel it's a bit familiar, and Muse probably don't see any reason to change since the crowd's still cheering. For that reason that's a pretty fair review. It just makes me eager for new, different material.

[Idiot Drugs]

Has there ever been a full on Banter vs Main?

 

A while back there was some pretty heavy amounts of beef going down, almost daily I seem to remember. Basically MM argue was Banter were elitist cunts and Banter's argument was MM was full of Muse Bum lickers I think

[Yellow Regret]

Quite a lot of people in banter still absolutely love Muse so I doubt there will be.

 

Oh I know, but lots of people in Main Muse don't know this. Oh dear, I already sound like an elitist cunt (which conveniently leads into the quote below)

 

A while back there was some pretty heavy amounts of beef going down, almost daily I seem to remember. Basically MM argue was Banter were elitist cunts and Banter's argument was MM was full of Muse Bum lickers I think

 

I get the impression that Banter is full of people who adore Muse (see above above quote), but just don't feel the need to make a song and dance out of it. The stereotypes listed do seem pretty accurate though in parts

[dip]

NME got it bang on. Gratz

[dead-duck]

It's more consistency. From my part, I went to one gig on the arena tour on the BHAR tour. Every other gig in the UK got at least 18 songs with Forced In as an extra. Some got 19. Every gig got Bliss and something like CE or Butterflies and Hurricanes or Apocalypse Please as well as a lot of BHAR stuff and the usuals (New Born, PiB, TIRO, SS, Hysteria). I got BHAR in order plus the regulars and Sunburn (which was so regularly played on that tour anyway). So 17 songs with nothing special bar a hideous performance of Exo-Politics and no Bliss. That was them being consistent at every gig except the one I went to which was flat and had a poor setlist. So already my opinion of Muse wasn't very high after that.

 

On this tour, some gigs get 18 songs, some get 16. Then some just get new album stuff plus greatest hits. Others get Ruled By Secrecy, Bliss, CE. It's that lack of consistency across the gigs that winds people up. I don't think there would be so much setlist beef if people could see that they were giving other things a go, obviously everyone has their favourites but to see say Dead Star being given a run out after being overlooked would be nice (Cave is a good example of this, never been my favourite but seeing the Teignmouth set I was impressed 'wow Cave'). If the band play the same songs every night then they'll get bored and it wont excite them, every gig is just going through the motions and that increases the chances of a dud gig.

I'm in with the general part of the "mix up the setlists" thing, but then I'd think there's only so many times you can play New Born before you start to become a bit numb, regardless of where it is in the setlist. It would be better if they were playing things that are newer, but a lot of the new stuff just doesn't have the same power. This is where it becomes a bit hard for me to comment on things, because I am biased in that I don't like TR very much, and I especially dislike the two standard "rock" songs. So, for example, NB and Hysteria are >>>> MKU and US IMO, so even though on paper they could be thought of as similar, if they were swapped out, I don't think it would be an even trade.

 

I'm not generally in agreement with the arguments about the number of songs in the setlist, to me it's more about the gig time. When discussing this before, people were insisting that the 16 song sets meant very short gigs so I checked the timestamps on my pics from the VA and MD gigs, where we got 17 songs one night and 16 the other, and they were both about 1hr45mins. In NYC, we got 18 songs, and that gig was a little longer, closer to 1:50-1:55.... to me, it matters more that there's a consistent amount of time rather than counting off songs. For example, if they did two 3 song gigs where at one they did SS, KoC and CE and the other they did SMBH, TIRO and FG, you'd have the same number of songs but the one gig would be significantly longer because of the songs chosen. The two would also have a very different "vibe" to them.

 

For your complaint about your bad setlist - it seems a bit inconsistent to me. On the one hand, you say they should be changing things more and that would make it better, but on the other you point to an example where they were generally playing the same things but then at a gig that you went to they changed things drastically and you didn't enjoy it. You got a fairly unique gig that night, and it wasn't any good for you.

 

Same thing with Glasto - you got a setlist there that was different than any of the other festival setlists up until that point... i.e. it had GL and FG! You didn't enjoy the gig.

 

I personally don't ask for groundbreaking performance every night, what I am talking about is a lack of consistency. I am talking about TR tour and performance not the choice of songs. For example Pheonix and Vegas had pretty much the exact same setlist (apart from 1 song). The performance at Phoenix was abysmal (Muse just going through the motions) whereas Vegas was fantastic (real energy on stage)... needless to say which I enjoyed the most.

I was referring more to the tone of the review there, I think the person hit on something - they play so far over the top every night, people become numb to it and they need to be more groundbreaking and more over the top to keep up. At that rate, they're bound to run out of steam...

 

About the differences between Phoenix and Vegas - in Phoenix you had issues with security getting in, didn't you? While in Vegas things went smoother? So your individual situation was different at the two gigs, wasn't it? You don't think that made a difference? Also, if I recall, people said that the crowd in Phoenix was fairly dead but not so in Vegas - do you think that also may have had an impact on the show? Finally, there was only a difference of one song, but wasn't that one song a song you kinda hate?

 

To both Mozza and L

 

I think there are a lot of factors that go into making one show more enjoyable than another, and then of course one person can enjoy a show while another person didn't. So I don't think laying all (or most) of the blame on the band's performance/perceived laziness is right.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've seen valid criticisms, and I have a few myself, but I think that people are oversimplifying it when they say that mixing up a setlist is all that needs to be done in order to "fix" it so that every show all three of us go to is equally enjoyable for each of us.

 

And to be fair Oxegen didn't get any songs they haven't played at festivals before but a bit of shake up of the order and an energetic performance (see KoC video) shows that it can make a hell of a difference.

Yeah, the performances were different but also you got CE and Bliss instead of GL and FG... I did enjoy the mixed up setlist, though. I <3 plug in baby, so I'd love to see it open....

 

 

.......and with that I've written a book of a response. This is what happens when I get sidetracked and then come back to a post - it gets longer If I was this prolific with my thesis, I'd have graduated by now

[Uccellino]

This review doesn't seem to be criticising Muse's performance at T in the Park alone. It's saying that they've saturated the market by headlining every festival and by playing the same older songs and blasting out the new songs that the reviewer doesn't like.

 

It therefore appears to apply to every gig since the start of The Resistance tour, because every one has had the standard SMBH, KOC, TIRO, PIB etc which she says are too familiar (although still great) and every one has had songs from The Resistance (which the reviewer can't stand by the sound of it).

 

Oxegen would fall in the same category, unless the addition of Bliss and CE were 'unfamilar' enough to make a change from the usual suspects and didn't fall into the 'all systems constantly at full-on' performances that she complains about.

 

I'm not criticising the review btw, just trying to understand what the reviewer would like to see from Muse. It may be that she thinks they should just play fewer festivals or mix up the set lists more or both.