Simulation Theory tour discussion

[Jobby]

Again, it’s not so much the specific number of songs as it is the length of the gig, to me at least.

 

2017’s shows tended to average between 1hr30 and 1hr40 I think and the Drones WT probs more consistently hit the 1hr40 and just over mark. To me, that’s not bad at all and what I’d expect of most acts I see tbh, some just go the extra mile. I think it seemed a lot worse than it was ‘cos the band didn’t use that time well. Drones’ songs were already generally pretty lengthy by Muse’s standards (Mercy being the only one just below 4 minutes long and The Globalist obvs being bloody 10 mins) so they already took up more time than another album might, then you add in the obvs excess of non-songs.

 

T2L’s shows were a bit of an exception tbf, that album’s songs were generally a bit shorter than Drones and I think most the arena shows consistently hit over 1hr50, some approaching the 2 hour mark, so they could fit more in (with only one jam as well). Matt’s voice has clearly taken a bit of a hit since then though, so a ~15 minute drop in length isn’t too dear imo.

 

So far, we’ve yet to see a song hit the 4 minute mark on ST, so it’s already looking quite short by their standards but we’ll have to see. If it is and the shows remain around 90-100 mins, which I’d expect, then they should hopefully be able to fit a bit more in if they use their time better as well. If you think - they only had around ~65 mins at the Reeperbahn(?) and they managed 16 songs in that tbf. Don’t get carried away but add an extra 30/35 mins on that? Should be ok.

[shostakobitch]

since reddit shadowbanned me i can only use this graveyard but i’m glad some of you are still using it... but i would like we are the universe to reappear and be used as a vocal break and i hope unsustainable stays. i want isolated system dropped. i want mercy dropped. matt is going to hurt himself by keeping it in the set. it’s beyond taxing to sing and if you have starlight, madness, dig down in the set already why does the set need mercy? those are all songs that basically evoke the same emotion and i think the set is flooded with flat emotion.

 

i’d rather hear unintended if i want love or an attempt to evoke it. i’m definitely worried if this is the tour’s formula. i’m legitimately concerned bc that set is typically the US formula of dumping on hits and leaving out anything with soul.

[serpentsatellite]

Lads - they had a 60/70 minute slot, it was a label showcase and the album’s still over a month away. Can we at least save the moans for when the actual gigs start?

 

Has the band really given us much reason to hold out hope at this point? Especially as a US fan. I think this setlist is very indicative of what's going to happen all tour. I'm actually shocked about Handler.

How many songs were played? 13? 14? Not counting filler. That's only a couple less songs than they were playing on the US arena tour on a 90 minute slot.

 

Out of curiosity - what would make y’all happy regarding the upcoming tour? I’m talking the big one in spring, not lil gigs where they’ll play whatever.

 

Edit: like bare minimum, not in an ideal world

 

More than 15-16 songs when they're charging arena prices and have as many albums/hits as they do

 

Quit relying on the visuals (which often aren't as amazing as they make them up to be) to energize the show, put some energy into the performance, and stop looking like it's a bore to perform

[Jobby]

Has the band really given us much reason to hold out hope at this point? Especially as a US fan. I think this setlist is very indicative of what's going to happen all tour. I'm actually shocked about Handler.

How many songs were played? 13? 14? Not counting filler. That's only a couple less songs than they were playing on the US arena tour on a 90 minute slot.

 

Well, my point was more about how you can’t really get ornery over a set under those conditions, I’m not necessarily advising optimism

 

This does kinda pertain to my last post though tbf. They played 16 at the Reeperbahn show (14 if you wanna count Unsus and IS as filler, I’ve started to feel that’s kinda unfair though tbh) with a 60/65 minute slot. With a 90-100 minute slot? Who knows. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not naive enough to say there’ll be absolutely no filler taking up that extra 30/35 minutes. I can see Prelude staying, potentially JFK and obvs there’ll be a jam. But with ST seemingly having generally shorter songs than Drones and presumably less concept-based playback, there could be room for slightly more than last time. Shedding The Globalist and 2 plays of Drones alone would make room for all 4 ST songs we’ve heard so far.

[serpentsatellite]

Well, my point was more about how you can’t really get ornery over a set under those conditions, I’m not necessarily advising optimism

 

This does kinda pertain to my last post though tbf. They played 16 at the Reeperbahn show (14 if you wanna count Unsus and IS as filler, I’ve started to feel that’s kinda unfair though tbh) with a 60/65 minute slot. With a 90-100 minute slot? Who knows. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not naive enough to say there’ll be absolutely no filler taking up that extra 30/35 minutes. I can see Prelude staying, potentially JFK and obvs there’ll be a jam. But with ST seemingly having generally shorter songs than Drones and presumably less concept-based playback, there could be room for slightly more than last time. Shedding The Globalist and 2 plays of Drones alone would make room for all 4 ST songs we’ve heard so far.

 

Counting IS/Uns, they played 16 in a short slot.

Counting those same songs (when played) and NKOK (which, as we can at least agree, wasn't really a played song) they played 17 on their last tour, for the most part. I suppose you could argue for counting the Jam as a song?

They played the same amount when I saw them on the proper Drones tour (yes, yes, Globalist is long...), looking at the first time I saw them at home (2010) was 15 (16 if you count a piano interlude.)

Considering that's counting all the "filler" tracks except the Jam... that's really made me wonder what exactly is filling that extra time.

[Zephymastyx]

Just to be precise with set length comparisons, the Reeperbahnfestival Set was 75 minutes

[jonisdead]

the dark side sounded good but there’s a couple of things to work out. i feel pain for chris because i think he may have needed more time to rest but seeing as he is doing the tv gig early this upcoming week too i suppose there is no way out now...

 

i think the drumming could be a little lighter in the sense where some beats need space between them for that rolling interplay between the bass and synth lines in this song. the three parts should fit in between each other completely nested and synchronous. i think bass could benefit from more of a staccato execution as if it does not have that punch of the album it will disappear and it is a necessary component of disruption in this song. i hope the “save me from the dark side” lower harmony comes into the live performance as i believe it was sung as just an octave below matt’s vocal line rather than the painful, dissonant harmony of the album version. there is also a minor drum part in the second verse of the song that didn’t make it live and i hope it gets worked in.

 

i know it was the first performance so i am not mad or annoyed. these are just some final wishes.

 

Wow you really changed your skeleton icon huh

[01FromFinland]

Out of curiosity - what would make y’all happy regarding the upcoming tour? I’m talking the big one in spring, not lil gigs where they’ll play whatever.

 

Edit: like bare minimum, not in an ideal world

 

Minimum 18 songs per gig, shortening Isolated System even more(or dropping it), stop using Interlude before Starlight or any song for that matter and play more than one old song per gig. That means ones not in regular rotation so fuck off with PiB.

 

Seriously, having 2/17-18 be reserved for stuff like Showbiz/MM/Sunburn/CE/Bliss/HM/SD/AP/TSP/TOADA/Fury/TAB/MOTP/Exo/COD/Assassin/MKU/Unnatural Selection can't be too much to ask.

 

That's fucking 18 songs to choose 2 from and while some of them are deep cuts for sure, they're not The Gallery-tier obscure. Plus there's variety in them for Matt's voice. If he's not feeling it or wants to be bit more chill for a while, they can go with Hyper Music and TOADA and if he feels like going way back, just throw in Showbiz and The Small Print.

[Jobby]

It’s not easy tbf, at least with how we know Muse approach it. With every record they put out, the number of ‘essentials’ can only grow. If you estimate a number like 18, within that you’ll be looking at probably 7 or 8 new songs, every gig staples (Knights, Supermassive, TIRO, Uprising, Psycho, Madness, Starlight, possibly Mercy) and at least 1 instrumental (Unsus/IS). That’d leave you with about 2 slots left to potentially mix things up with and, for those, more common stuff like Hysteria, Stockholm, PIB, UD, Resistance or Drones leftovers like DI and TH are always gonna lead the pack over more obscure older stuff.

 

I think they do slightly better with that than they get credit for tbh (crucify me). If you think, last tour they did still manage to squeeze stuff like CE, AP, TAB, B&H, Map, Bliss, Sunburn, Blackout and Assassin in on occasion by sacrificing some traditional staples and new songs. Outside of the US only, I know, and that is a flaw but, in the grand scheme of things I don’t think that’s too bad.

 

So basically I guess what I’m saying is I’m sure stuff like that will be knocking about again but you’re probs never gonna dedicated slots rotating between them ‘cos there’s just not enough space in a 90-100 minute set. As it is, they just have to battle it out with previous staples that’ve had to be relegated a smidge to give them a chance.

[kueller]

The 2nd Law tour had comparable percentages but the overall show was just more exciting even with the staples.

[kueller]

Outside of the US only, I know, and that is a flaw but, in the grand scheme of things I don’t think that’s too bad.

 

It's pretty bad if that's all you can get in reasonable cost. Take A Bow felt more like a proper set revelation though. It came up later in the tour and did actually make its way to the US.

[Jobby]

Getting a lot of T2L vibes from this album tbh so hopefully that follows through with the tour as well (just w/ better new songs). Except in length, I wouldn’t expect us to see 110-120 minute shows again unless they went back to stadiums.

[01FromFinland]

every gig staples (Knights, Supermassive, TIRO, Uprising, Psycho, Madness, Starlight,

 

Are you gonna crucify me for saying that SMBH is the one that needs to go on the shelf for a tour?

[kueller]

Getting a lot of T2L vibes from this album tbh so hopefully that follows through with the tour as well (just w/ better new songs). Except in length, I wouldn’t expect us to see 110-120 minute shows again unless they went back to stadiums.

 

I don't think the album's style will somehow dictate that.Even on the last tour I never saw Reapers or Defector but did see Drones twice. For a rockier album the show was really lacking in the heaviest songs.

[Jobby]

Are you gonna crucify me for saying that SMBH is the one that needs to go on the shelf for a tour?

 

From those songs? YES honestly Supermassive’s maybe my favourite of the every gig staples

 

The staples most in need of a refresher course are TIRO and Uprising imo. I’d say Knights as well but I think the only thing that needs refreshing about that is MWAH and it’s possible positions in the set, not how often it’s played. I feel like the other 2 are about as expendable as Hysteria and they’ve shown a willingness to rotate that.

 

I don't think the album's style will somehow dictate that.Even on the last tour I never saw Reapers or Defector but did see Drones twice. For a rockier album the show was really lacking in the heaviest songs.

 

Oh yeah, there was no logic behind that train of thought. I just hoped it’d be a good omen

Edited September 25, 2018 by Jobby

[forevermusic]

I mean, I'm doubtful they'll rest any of the usuals just yet, and it seems as though Plug in Baby, Hysteria and Mercy remain as staples, or at least, more often than not performed.

 

One or two could use a rest. I agree Uprising lacks power it used to have, and I'm really not a fan of the guitar-less Starlight, although I've said before I'd like to see a version where Matt plays the piano part, just for something different.

 

Also could take or leave Plug in Baby, which is currently a staple of all the times I've seen Muse, although if they can get the punchiness back, I can still dig it. Or failing that, the weird 8-bit effect at La Cigale, which I thought sounded unexpectedly impressive. I still enjoy SMBH, TIRO and Knights live, so I'm cool with those, although agreed for something other than the Harmonica... maybe an 80s movie theme could take its place to fit in with the new album's reference theme.

[01FromFinland]

From those songs? YES honestly Supermassive’s maybe my favourite of the every gig staples

 

The staples most in need of a refresher course are TIRO and Uprising imo. I’d say Knights as well but I think the only thing that needs refreshing about that is MWAH and it’s possible positions in the set, not how often it’s played. I feel like the other 2 are about as expendable as Hysteria and they’ve shown a willingness to rotate that.

 

 

 

I mean, I would've said Madness, but I've got a feeling Dick Down and Dead Inside are gonna help phasing it out for this tour. There's no way in hell they can play all three at every gig and not have people fall asleep. Starlight needs to be made to a rock song again. And as someone who is in the front row whenever possible, I don't mind Knights and Uprising, they always get people going.

[OriginOfAbso]

I mean, I would've said Madness, but I've got a feeling Dick Down and Dead Inside are gonna help phasing it out for this tour. There's no way in hell they can play all three at every gig and not have people fall asleep. Starlight needs to be made to a rock song again. And as someone who is in the front row whenever possible, I don't mind Knights and Uprising, they always get people going.

 

I don't think Dead Inside will stick around. They haven't been playing it recently.

[shostakobitch]

i think a mix-up of the order of the staples in the set would be helpful. the set needs the staples to be better balanced with deeper cuts. mercy needs to be dumped into the sea. the end of the set has nothing exciting about it because it is a domino effect of megahits until the end. the energy gets lost with the best of format muse have been using.

[jonisdead]

It’s not easy tbf, at least with how we know Muse approach it. With every record they put out, the number of ‘essentials’ can only grow. If you estimate a number like 18, within that you’ll be looking at probably 7 or 8 new songs, every gig staples (Knights, Supermassive, TIRO, Uprising, Psycho, Madness, Starlight, possibly Mercy) and at least 1 instrumental (Unsus/IS). That’d leave you with about 2 slots left to potentially mix things up with and, for those, more common stuff like Hysteria, Stockholm, PIB, UD, Resistance or Drones leftovers like DI and TH are always gonna lead the pack over more obscure older stuff.

 

I think they do slightly better with that than they get credit for tbh (crucify me). If you think, last tour they did still manage to squeeze stuff like CE, AP, TAB, B&H, Map, Bliss, Sunburn, Blackout and Assassin in on occasion by sacrificing some traditional staples and new songs. Outside of the US only, I know, and that is a flaw but, in the grand scheme of things I don’t think that’s too bad.

 

So basically I guess what I’m saying is I’m sure stuff like that will be knocking about again but you’re probs never gonna dedicated slots rotating between them ‘cos there’s just not enough space in a 90-100 minute set. As it is, they just have to battle it out with previous staples that’ve had to be relegated a smidge to give them a chance.

 

wrong

[01FromFinland]

i think a mix-up of the order of the staples in the set would be helpful. the set needs the staples to be better balanced with deeper cuts. mercy needs to be dumped into the sea. the end of the set has nothing exciting about it because it is a domino effect of megahits until the end. the energy gets lost with the best of format muse have been using.

 

They could literally just slap Bliss between Uprising and Knights on the encore and it would be so much better.

[kueller]

wrong

 

I see you're still mad about that.

 

 

So am I.

 

[shostakobitch]

They could literally just slap Bliss between Uprising and Knights on the encore and it would be so much better.

 

 

exactly. i think there would be less complaints if the end-of-set hit parade was disrupted a bit

[Mozza]

The problem for Muse live now for me is the majority the staples aren't really the style of their output that I really enjoy. Other bands play the same staples every tour but it doesn't matter so much if you think that they are their best songs

[RobM220]

Welp, bloody hell the boys are gonna do it. Seems like we're getting a European Stadium tour in 2019 (Wembley pls)