simplytom Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Just wondering if there is a difference between what you think are their best songs and your favourite songs. For example, Reapers is probably the best song in Drones because it is technically brilliant, but The Handler is my favourite song because of all the feels it gives me, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 For example, Reapers is probably the best song in Drones because it is technically brilliantAnd technical brilliance is objectively good? How do you compare the technical aspect of one song with that of another? Is there any empirical evidence? Or are you just... using subjective ideas to determine which song deserves credit for being the best? I mean for this to actually be a valid discussion, music would have to be MADE with a purpose of technical brilliance. Fact is that when Muse (and most other bands) write songs, they write them with the intention of making good songs, but it has nothing to do with technicality. It might as well be that emotion that you connect with in The Handler, or the personal lyrics of a song like Dead Inside, along with it's minimal approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nature2 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 And technical brilliance is objectively good? How do you compare the technical aspect of one song with that of another? Is there any empirical evidence? Or are you just... using subjective ideas to determine which song deserves credit for being the best? I mean for this to actually be a valid discussion, music would have to be MADE with a purpose of technical brilliance. Fact is that when Muse (and most other bands) write songs, they write them with the intention of making good songs, but it has nothing to do with technicality. It might as well be that emotion that you connect with in The Handler, or the personal lyrics of a song like Dead Inside, along with it's minimal approach. I'll just add, that I never understood why people (most notably metal fans, but obviously it would an exaggeration to say it's only them) tend to say that if something is "complicated technically and hard to play" it's automatically better than a 3 chord song. In my opinion music is about emotions, a message or simply about fun. And I'd take a fine Ed Sheeran's ballad over emotionless 10 minute metal song anytime even though I generally enjoy metal music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplytom Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 I regret this thread already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Erased 01 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 enough fucking threads. Desist, or I shall kill you and eat you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopix Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I'll just add, that I never understood why people (most notably metal fans, but obviously it would an exaggeration to say it's only them) tend to say that if something is "complicated technically and hard to play" it's automatically better than a 3 chord song. In my opinion music is about emotions, a message or simply about fun. And I'd take a fine Ed Sheeran's ballad over emotionless 10 minute metal song anytime even though I generally enjoy metal music. Fair point, but it's about both to me. I appreciate a song more if I see strong musicianship, levels of talent, or skill involved, as you can relate with the individual's perseverance, commitment and effort to reach that level of competency, but then I can also appreciate the level of emotional input, story, or the way the song makes me feel on a psychological level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I regret this thread already WHAT HAVE YOU STARTED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I think in my long years thinking deeply about music and my feelings towards it, I've discovered that, while we can only analyze subjects such as "best" and "favorite" subjectively, we each have different subjective criteria for "best" versus "favorite." Thus, in my humble opinion, it should be permissible to discuss the dichotomy between the two and to discuss each as a separate, but possibly similar, idea, so long as we all fully understand our interpretations of "best" in these instances do not imply objectivity. I like this thread! In most cases, no, my favorite material does not match up with what I personally consider to be Muse's best material, as I have different criteria for each. My criteria for what is the best music are more mentally focused and clearly defined than my criteria for my favorite music, which are based solely on my emotional feelings towards the music. For example, I think The Handler is a much better quality song than Revolt based on my criteria for Muse's music (and yes, there are different sets of criteria for different bands or artists based on what I expect from them), including aspects such as having the "Muse" sound, lyrical depth, interesting instrumental work, quality and effectiveness of song structure and feel, etc. However, Revolt is my second favorite song off of Drones whereas The Handler ranks at number three. How is this possible? Simple: I like Revolt better, it affects me more, it makes me want to smile and laugh and dance. Certainly I could analyze what aspects of Revolt cause me to like it more than The Handler, but I would likely find they do not match my ideal criteria for quality in a Muse song, as listed in part above. Perhaps they better match my criteria for quality in another kind of song, a Queen song or a Journey song perhaps, and considering Queen are my favorite band whilst Muse are only my third favorite band, it makes some logical sense that, when Muse appeal to the musical qualities I love most about Queen in a flattering way, I appreciate the sound perhaps more than when Muse appeal to the musical qualities I love most about Muse themselves. The mind and the emotions form many tricky mazes of thought and feeling to navigate and find the logical sense in, especially on more subjective topics such as favoritism or artistic ideals, however, sense can still exist, if one takes the time to find it. That's all I've got. Feel free to try and tear down my arguments, I'm sure I've missed something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I regret this thread already Don't regret buddy! I think this is actually one of the least understood topics in music discussion everywhere and likely one of those which most needs to be discussed and sorted out. I've submitted my opinion, so I hope maybe we can get to some real discussion about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairolfitri Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Let's take my personal favourites into account – the songs that I rate 10/10 (i.e. my favourite songs) are Citizen Erased, Stockholm Syndrome, Take a Bow, Dead Inside, Hysteria, Exogenesis 3, Megalomania, FAWY, The Handler, Supremacy, Showbiz, Starlight and Muscle Museum. I guess most fans may consider the likes of Citizen Erased, Stockholm Syndrome, Hysteria and perhaps The Handler to be some of Muse's best songs, but I can already say, by observation, that Falling Away with You and Starlight are poorly received by fans on this board. And granted, perhaps these two songs do not display Muse at their finest. That being said, I still love these songs because of personal preference; I thought FAWY is Muse's best "softer" songs and I love that middle part of Starlight so much that I could repeat those 10 seconds over and over again. Nonetheless, I do not believe that any of Muse's other songs could be legitimately called their "best" (not even Knights of Cydonia, Map of the Problematique, and MK Ultra – which I personally do not enjoy and believe are overrated), so to speak. So, to a certain degree, I do consider my 13 favourite songs to be their best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonodillieono Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 No, Butterflies and Hurricanes is my favourite song (subjective fact) and Citizen Erased is their best song (objective fact) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Citizen Erased is their best song (objective fact) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 No, Butterflies and Hurricanes is my favourite song (subjective fact) and Citizen Erased is their best song (objective fact) Many fans would agree with you, but I've not yet been shown any objective proof that CE is objectively Muse's best song. Care to share whatever evidence you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurkinglurkerlurksagain Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I would say Exogenesis is their objective best in terms of it's scope, and it's one of my favorites. Thing is, I've listened to most of their other songs many more times than I have to Exso. So IDK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I would say Exogenesis is their objective best in terms of it's scope, and it's one of my favorites. Thing is, I've listened to most of their other songs many more times than I have to Exso. So IDK. Exogenesis doesn't really have much scope though, it's essentially an extended piano ballad with a 4 minute symphonic rock intro. I think the fact that it's separated into 3 parts and has a fancy title leads people to feel like it's more complex and ambitious than it actually is. It's not really worth discussing what's 'objectively' their best anything though, 'cause there's no such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Exogenesis doesn't really have much scope though, it's essentially an extended piano ballad with a 4 minute symphonic rock intro. I think the fact that it's separated into 3 parts and has a fancy title leads people to feel like it's more complex and ambitious than it actually is. It's not really worth discussing what's 'objectively' their best anything though, 'cause there's no such thing. I disagree on the first statement but second the second. I think we could have a really neat discussion if we all agreed that no song is "objectively" the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum IV Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 using subjective ideas to determine which song deserves credit for being the best? Can we ban Tjet for bringing the word 'subjective' into the thread? I'll just add, that I never understood why people (most notably metal fans, but obviously it would an exaggeration to say it's only them) tend to say that if something is "complicated technically and hard to play" it's automatically better than a 3 chord song. In my opinion music is about emotions, a message or simply about fun. And I'd take a fine Ed Sheeran's ballad over emotionless 10 minute metal song anytime even though I generally enjoy metal music. There needs to be a mixture of both. The first thing I ever heard out of this band was the bassline to Hysteria, and it blew my mind. B&H made me decide to become a pianist. Complexity is interesting, it's a universal way to grab and keep your attention. Emotional appeal is also necessary, but also fickle, prone to familiarity. I've spent so much time listening to Muse over the years that I can get into most of their songs quite easily, but Matt has to meet me half-way with a message I can relate to. Exogenesis doesn't really have much scope though, it's essentially an extended piano ballad with a 4 minute symphonic rock intro. I think the fact that it's separated into 3 parts and has a fancy title leads people to feel like it's more complex and ambitious than it actually is. It's easily the most complex and ambitious thing they've ever done. You've likely been desensitised to the peculiarities of their music through repeated listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 There needs to be a mixture of both.Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Exogenesis doesn't really have much scope though, it's essentially an extended piano ballad with a 4 minute symphonic rock intro. I think the fact that it's separated into 3 parts and has a fancy title leads people to feel like it's more complex and ambitious than it actually is. It's not really worth discussing what's 'objectively' their best anything though, 'cause there's no such thing. haters... etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum IV Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Why? I find both are necessary for lasting appeal. Musical depth is what keeps the song interesting, and without it the result is often forgettable, generic. Emotional depth is what keeps the song relatable, and without it the result is often sterile, lifeless (TR had this problem for me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I find both are necessary for lasting appeal. Musical depth is what keeps the song interesting, and without it the result is often forgettable, generic. Emotional depth is what keeps the song relatable, and without it the result is often sterile, lifeless (TR had this problem for me).Shame that both musical and emotional depth are baseless concepts that people make up to feel superior about the music that they listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I know Muse don't consider my faves to be their best songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn. Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 People are obsessed with others opinions and classifications What is your favourite song? What is your 4th favourite song? Rank the songs... Rank the albums... Do you think The Handler deserve 4 stars or 4.25 stars? I know all are legit questions, but, jeez, form your own opinions based on your own thoughts, not what others have to say. Sorry, cynical rant of the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopix Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Shame that both musical and emotional depth are baseless concepts that people make up to feel superior about the music that they listen to. Or people just have different interpretations and reasons for enjoying music...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukester911 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Soaked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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