Psycho/Drones General Tour Discussion Thread

[Jobby]

Concerts are always a crap shoot, but I think it's pretty fair to say not a lot of people should be personally held accountable for buying tickets sight unseen to this tour expecting:

- heavier album, maybe heavier set (backed up by the festival tour!)

- more thematic, less like a slapped together cluster of hits (Matt himself talked about it)

- functioning stage props

- it wouldn't consist of less songs than the last arena tours in the same country; pretty much only as long as a festival

 

And, based on last tours, I would have expected at least a decent shot at seeing a cool older song or two that I hadn't seen before.

 

^^

 

I don't think anyone expected or could've predicted this sudden nosedive given the band's track record in recent years, especially 2015. I wasn't expecting Uno, Futurism or Micro Cuts to be in regular rotation or anything but I was expecting decent length sets (at least as long as the festival tour, I mean come on) and a reasonable balance between pop + heavier stuff with maybe the odd rarity/oldie popping up on occasion.

[Museman8989]

 

Concerts are always a crap shoot, but I think it's pretty fair to say not a lot of people should be personally held accountable for buying tickets sight unseen to this tour expecting:

- heavier album, maybe heavier set (backed up by the festival tour!)

- more thematic, less like a slapped together cluster of hits (Matt himself talked about it)

- functioning stage props

- it wouldn't consist of less songs than the last arena tours in the same country; pretty much only as long as a festival

 

And, based on last tours, I would have expected at least a decent shot at seeing a cool older song or two that I hadn't seen before.

 

I've seen a grand total of three gigs and I've gotten TaB, Sunburn, US, Map, and GL (which I guess was rarer in the US.)

And one of those sets was only 15 songs long.

This tour, there was a good chance I wouldn't see a single non-Drones song I have seen at least twice already.

 

Call it expectations all you want, but all you're doing is making guesses. no one tour (and this goes for any band) can ever predict what a future tour will bring. From what I've seen Muse never plays the same shows for festivals as they do stadium tours, so idk why everyone thought that would magically change this time. As I said before, if you're throwing down big bucks for multiple shows you need to acknowledge the risks inherent, not hope/guesstimate/predict that the shows are going to be what you want and then get pissy when they're not.

Edited January 19, 2016 by MusersAdvocate

[JessicaSarahS]

But aren't the latest setlists a step up in the right direction? Or are they still in a nosedive.

[Jobby]

But aren't the latest setlists a step up in the right direction? Or are they still in a nosedive.

 

The last couple have been better with AP, Map and CE coming back and Feeling Good and Resistance possibly starting to die away again, without a doubt, but I still can't call them 'good' yet, personally. 17 songs (probably around 1hr30 without all the filler) is just too short to warrant that label for me.

 

The fact that it's slowly but surely getting better is a good sign but they've got a way to go yet imo.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Jobby

[serpentsatellite]

But aren't the latest setlists a step up in the right direction? Or are they still in a nosedive.

 

You're probably talking to Jobby and not me, but yeah, a step in the right direction. Still disappointingly short for expensive arena gigs, though.

I didn't think the first setlists were bad, other than short, either; Houston or Dallas would have made me very happy despite the length. (Although I'd probably have had to leave before people got into Dallas.)

It was that gig where Bliss was literally crossed off where things started to go horribly wrong.

 

Call it expectations all you want, but all you're doing is making guesses. no one tour (and this goes for any band) can ever predict what a future tour will bring. From what I've seen Muse never plays the same shows for festivals as they do stadium tours, so idk why everyone thought that would magically change this time. As I said before, if you're throwing down big bucks for multiple shows you need to acknowledge the risks inherent, not hope/guesstimate/predict that the shows are going to be what you want and then get pissy when they're not.

 

Every single person, everywhere, who buys concert tickets is "guessing."

I would say a person buying tickets to Muse expecting Starlight and KoC would be more than in their rights to be pissed if they weren't played, too.

All I said was, based on previous tours and recent gigs (and things Matt himself stated) it's completely fair to not expect "hey, I bet this tour is going to be WAY shorter than the last ones! "

 

I don't know where you got the idea we're comparing stadiums to arenas, because we aren't.

Europe's arena gigs are longer than ours, and last tours arena gigs were too.

That's what people are talking about.

 

Honestly, the stadium T2L visuals sucked compared to the arena ones, imo, anyways.

[JessicaSarahS]

It was that gig where Bliss was literally crossed off where things started to go horribly wrong.

 

Oakland.... :'( And we got Revolt. But it was still surprisingly good performance wise -- even with all of the broken stuff.

[Museman8989]

You're probably talking to Jobby and not me, but yeah, a step in the right direction. Still disappointingly short for expensive arena gigs, though.

I didn't think the first setlists were bad, other than short, either; Houston or Dallas would have made me very happy despite the length. (Although I'd probably have had to leave before people got into Dallas.)

It was that gig where Bliss was literally crossed off where things started to go horribly wrong.

 

 

 

Every single person, everywhere, who buys concert tickets is "guessing."

I would say a person buying tickets to Muse expecting Starlight and KoC would be more than in their rights to be pissed if they weren't played, too.

All I said was, based on previous tours and recent gigs (and things Matt himself stated) it's completely fair to not expect "hey, I bet this tour is going to be WAY shorter than the last ones! "

 

I don't know where you got the idea we're comparing stadiums to arenas, because we aren't.

Europe's arena gigs are longer than ours, and last tours arena gigs were too.

That's what people are talking about.

 

Honestly, the stadium T2L visuals sucked compared to the arena ones, imo, anyways.

 

You might not have mentioned it specifically but I've seen other people mention that, so apologies. I still stand by my statement though. Plus the last time I checked Matt is only accurate with what he tells us about 3% of the time, feel like people take things said much too seriously, and again; if you're buying $100's worth of tickets based on words and past tours, you're setting yourself up for trouble. I'm not saying you can't be annoyed, but you took the risk so you gotta go with it.

[Jobby]

I don't know where you got the idea we're comparing stadiums to arenas, because we aren't.

Europe's arena gigs are longer than ours, and last tours arena gigs were too.

That's what people are talking about.

 

Even then, they're playing 3 or 4 less songs than they were on those arena tour legs iirc. If anything, surely they should be playing more if they've got more material.

 

I'd agree that the initial gigs weren't that bad, just short. Add in two more songs like Stockholm and maybe Map or New Born and those sets would've been decent, if not spectacular. It was that horrible patch that started with the gig where Bliss was crossed off where things started to really look dire, as you say.

[kueller]

Oakland.... :'( And we got Revolt. But it was still surprisingly good performance wise -- even with all of the broken stuff.

 

Also had Feeling Good.

[kueller]

I'd hold expectations as I would to both the band's potential and also other arena concerts I've seen. The two things that bothered me the most were length, but I'll let Jobby continue going on about that, and probably larger, energy. The large chunk of slow to mid intensity songs just really kills the energy of the concert.

 

They have an album that's wonderfully rock-oriented and I didn't even get to see some of rockier songs from that. As bitter as I was about it I knew there wasn't going to be a concert on the level of the small venue gigs but after a few gigs it's fair to say I would at least expect to not get bored at a Muse gig since I never have before. Those kind of expectations are going to happen. I know they're better than this.

[JessicaSarahS]

Also had Feeling Good.

 

Holy hell, how did I like even enjoy this gig?! I guess seeing them with the new stage setup really did help. The working visuals were so good. I only remember being super bummed that Reapers wasn't played. That was my only true complaint. OH! And Drones being played twice.

[serpentsatellite]

Oakland.... :'( And we got Revolt. But it was still surprisingly good performance wise -- even with all of the broken stuff.

 

I'd be personally a bit miffed with broken props, tbh, except the dildrone. They're such a huge focus of the show it would be a bit of a downer.

It could also be my background as a complaint department retail drone; people get really bent out of shape for things a lot less severe than a blank gig screen or crashing balloons. Stuff must work.

 

Knowing Revolt isn't coming back was the last straw with my still wanting to go to this tour. :'(

 

You might not have mentioned it specifically but I've seen other people mention that, so apologies. I still stand by my statement though. Plus the last time I checked Matt is only accurate with what he tells us about 3% of the time, feel like people take things said much too seriously, and again; if you're buying $100's worth of tickets based on words and past tours, you're setting yourself up for trouble. I'm not saying you can't be annoyed, but you took the risk so you gotta go with it.

 

I guess my thoughts are, if all people should be able to expect from the gigs are just the big radio hits... well, that's going to alienate enough people that it's a problem in the long run, and Muse is already having problems here in the US.

Losing fans with each subsequent album is something every single band goes through, but a lot of those fans will still go to gigs if they feel like the show still caters to old fans in any way. Those fans will spread word of mouth to others, who'll go to the gigs.

 

Muse is dragging around a show that's massively outmatching their popularity in this country... as proven by just how few cities this tour is hitting... they really need all the support they can get.

 

And we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I cannot agree that getting 15-17 songs for a $75 arena gig from a band on it's 7th album is an acceptable "risk" for people buying tickets.

Just because people have to take a risk and get tickets before seeing what the tour is about isn't an excuse for the band to be lazy or shortchange certain areas.

[JessicaSarahS]

I'd be personally a bit miffed with broken props, tbh, except the dildrone. They're such a huge focus of the show it would be a bit of a downer.

 

It is a bit disappointing, but it's not something where I was going to say "the floating balls aren't working? Fuck this shit, might as well go home." It was also the first gig after the most disappointed I've ever been with the band -- canceled Vegas show -- so I was just crossing my fingers and toes that the show would start on time and that they'd actually show up. So a couple of floating balls were the least of my worries.

[wiske]

Apologies. Fixed.

 

Apologies accepted

[serpentsatellite]

It is a bit disappointing, but it's not something where I was going to say "the floating balls aren't working? Fuck this shit, might as well go home." It was also the first gig after the most disappointed I've ever been with the band -- canceled Vegas show -- so I was just crossing my fingers and toes that the show would start on time and that they'd actually show up. So a couple of floating balls were the least of my worries.

 

You went to multiple gigs, right? Would you have been more disappointed do you think if the balls didn't work and it was your only shot to see them?

That was something I was really worried about.

 

I had a weird relationship with my last gigs, I guess I should say.

I enjoyed Map and Sunburn at my first one, but I was a bit put off because of hearing the band had badmouthed the US crowds from someone nearly right as I walked into the gig, and I most remember being uncomfortable with being still at the gig, and trying to "get into it" more, and just being embarrassed and distracted.

 

I went to a second gig for that reason, not "expecting" any different songs, but because I'd cooled down a bit and wanted to actually enjoy one of the gigs.

If I'm being honest, I enjoyed myself a lot more (even if I got US instead of SS or NB) but two gigs on the same tour made me aware that the hits didn't feel like they had much energy to them, they were exactly the same down to the way Matt held himself and walked, and I was just waiting until they were over and we got to something I actually liked.

And I thought the T2L songs came off rather flat live, too, even though I really liked the album. Just not much energy, maybe too mechanical.

 

Visuals were absolutely perfect, though.

 

So, I'd wonder if someone who thought that about T2L thinks the performances are more lively on this tour, but that's a very specific, narrow question.

I at least like the Drones songs very much.

[JessicaSarahS]

You went to multiple gigs, right? Would you have been more disappointed do you think if the balls didn't work and it was your only shot to see them?

That was something I was really worried about.

 

Nah. I knew the stuff wasn't going to work and I was already anticipating everything to go wrong and that it might be canceled. I was just happy to see the band to be honest-- I guess being pessimistic has its perks.

 

My brother is a huge fan and usually goes with me to all of the shows that I go to, but he's had some major health problems lately and Oakland was the only show he could go to. He wasn't put off because of the broken visuals, but he was disappointed that Reapers and SS didn't appear. He laughed and said the two working drones were nice looking enough. He was just thankful that he could even make it to the gig at all, given his health problems and situation. **edit: And he said this was his favorite setup yet.

Edited January 19, 2016 by JessicaSarahS

[serpentsatellite]

I don't know if I'd be more disappointed if I went, or not. I know if I go all the way out to a gig my health issues flare up so suddenly and severely that I could still miss the gig, and end up having a hard time getting home.

My new new manager (yay 83% turn over!) is *furious* that I'm off on a weekend, even though it was ok with the old new boss... will this make my job more miserable in the long run? Probably.

I have this unshakable personal bias that center stages can burn in the pits of hell...

 

Having to admit, in front of friends and loved ones, that I enjoyed a Linkin Park gig more than I did a Muse one was a real eye opener.

I had to apologize for the years and years I spent making fun of them and their terrible musicianship.

[Alexander DeLarge]

But out of all the shows I've been to that's the only complaint I have, so I'd say that's pretty good. DeLarge on the other hand has been to numerous shows with rare songs played (and according to his gigs attended list, has suddenly been to shows as far back as 2004 when he was 11 years old) and yet still complains. He even found a way to complain about the Webster Hall gig, which in my estimation is the best concert I've ever been and will go to. Some people just can't be pleased, ever.

 

Stating the fact that The Groove, a song that is like two and a half minutes long is not equal to Assassin is not a complaint. It's a statement that's quite true and I think it would've been nice to see you guys get 17 songs since the crowd was amazing and it'd be nice to have parity across the Psycho tour sets since some people were upset with how the Mayan got a better show.

 

Also who cares if I've seen them in 2004? Gives me all the more reason to be disappointed in the direction they've gone (from a room of the most die hard fans that knew every damn word to every song and went nuts, could've played the most obscure b-side and we'd know it) and to see those same people drop off the face of the earth after a certain album in 2009/2010?

 

Its amazing how I was happy with the festival sets but I'm magically unhappy with what I got five times three months later. It's as if they went in a different direction than expected.

[Casteja]

The downtime is pretty sad. Drones is pretty long, and cut one of those and the playback stuff and it's already 1-2 more songs in there.

And why does it take Matt 2 minutes to plonk as ass down at the piano?

 

That is one of the problems that I see... Long time between songs (screens up, screens down, central piramid, destroy all hullaballons before next song... Drones song 2 times??? + rest before Mercy.... drones on and drones off 2 times too? They are wasting time!!!)

 

This can be fixed with some changes:

 

[The Second Law: Unsustainable (short) (Drones on)]

(Drones are 3 minutes, this intro are 38 seconds, so they win 2 min 30 sec)

1.Psycho

2.SBH

3.Citizen Erased

4.The Second Law: Isolated (Drones off)(Screens on)

5.The Handler

6.[interlude] (Central Pyramid on)

7.Hysteria / Map / Futurism / TSP / Fury / The Groove...

8.Plug In Baby / Bliss (With Hullabaloons)

9.Drones D&B (time to break Hullabaloons and go to the piano (I saw them wasting 1 or 2 minutes in some videos waiting here))

10.Piano song (pref showbiz)

11.Starlight / Resistance

12.UD / Madness

13.Dead Inside

[JFK]

14.Defector

15.Revolt

16.TIRO / Map / Futurism / TSP / Fury / The Groove...

¿SS / Dead Star / Assasin?

17.Reapers (With Dildrone)

18.The Globalist

[Drones]

(they rest after Drones 1 minute aprox. They can use it to put Prelude (1 min)....)

19.Prelude

20.Survival / New Born

-----------------------------

[We Are The Universe (Sirens version 1:40 min or shorter)]

21.Uprising / Map

22.Mercy

[MWTH]

23.Knights Of Cydonia

 

Now, they play 21 songs and with this set they can play 23 in only +5 minutes

[jonisdead]

numbers? in absolutely no way can you assume that there is a correlation between lower ticket sales and the fans annoyance at the sets being played from your "research". you're a statisticians worst nightmare.

 

You're actually entirely wrong. An assumption of correlation doesn't assert causation, anything can correlate with hard data like sales.

[Jobby]

[The Second Law: Unsustainable (short) (Drones on)]

1.Psycho

 

6.[interlude] (Central Pyramid on)

7.Hysteria / Map / Futurism / TSP / Fury / The Groove

 

16.TIRO / Map / Futurism / TSP / Fury / The Groove

 

19.Prelude

20.Survival / New Born

 

These transitions/rotations don't make a lot of sense to me.

[Museman8989]

You're actually entirely wrong. An assumption of correlation doesn't assert causation, anything can correlate with hard data like sales.

 

right; "anything" could correlate. absolutely no way to prove what that variable(s) could be. especially as something as flimsy as " i talked to some people at 3 or 4 shows and they said different things about the setlists"

[Museman8989]

Stating the fact that The Groove, a song that is like two and a half minutes long is not equal to Assassin is not a complaint. It's a statement that's quite true and I think it would've been nice to see you guys get 17 songs since the crowd was amazing and it'd be nice to have parity across the Psycho tour sets since some people were upset with how the Mayan got a better show.

 

Also who cares if I've seen them in 2004? Gives me all the more reason to be disappointed in the direction they've gone (from a room of the most die hard fans that knew every damn word to every song and went nuts, could've played the most obscure b-side and we'd know it) and to see those same people drop off the face of the earth after a certain album in 2009/2010?

 

Its amazing how I was happy with the festival sets but I'm magically unhappy with what I got five times three months later. It's as if they went in a different direction than expected.

 

 

news for you buddy, life ain't fair. get used to it. not happy with the product (which it seems you never are) don't buy it. don't know more simply it can be put

[serpentsatellite]

news for you buddy, life ain't fair. get used to it. not happy with the product (which it seems you never are) don't buy it. don't know more simply it can be put

 

Not to keep being devil's advocate... but there's absolutely no way to know if you like the product ahead of time. A case which is getting more and more unique in this day and age, where you can even return food if you didn't like it, after you eat it.

[Museman8989]

I haven't been on the boards in a long time and I'm mad at myself for coming back. This place is an absolute mess of negativity and complaining. Its the same lot of you (for the most part) complaining about the same things in the most cyclical fashion possible. Either come to grips with what the band is or don't. It's not like were a union that can go on strike against an unjust employer, Muse is gonna do what Muse is gonna do. Unhappy with the sets? Don't go to 7 consecutive shows. Europe shows seem better? Save the money from doing 9 shows here and take a trip there to see one. Feel slighted the shows aren't long enough or there aren't enough rotations? Well, tough luck. If life's biggest problem is Muse then I'll let you know, you're pretty lucky. Yeah, I know I chime in on stuff with my own opinions but I know I'm not on anywhere near the level some of you are. I feel bad that some can't genuinely enjoy the show and experience without ripping it to pieces, which not only casts the band in a negative light but gives others trepidation as well. We all have visions of what we want the band to be but at the end of the day it's out of our control. I hope everyone enjoys their shows going forward and that everyone gets what they want