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Origin XX


Jobby
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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Jobby said:

I’m not and will probs never be an audiophile so I won’t claim to be a wealth of knowledge on mixing and master but that sounded like just a big nope to me

Completely blown out, the harmonics and snare in the intro sounded horrible. So many things felt like they just got lost in the “TURN IT UP” sesh. This felt like CE if it gorged itself on an all-you-can-eat buffet for a month straight. The outro felt so much...heavier and ploddier, rather than tender and vulnerable. The chorus/flange effect on the clean solo honestly made me chuckle in a kinda morbid way. Literally the only thing that I heard and found in anyway cool were the tweaked falsettos in the chorus, but even then I wouldn’t say I preferred them to the original’s.

I legit saw some people hyping this up as a better mix than the original CE and this is officially my new #1 most confusing Muse opinion after the people who claimed Mercy sounded like Dead Star. Just...bloated. Like, I have to listen to the rest of the record out of morbid curiosity at the very least but my christ am I kinda dreading it. Why would you do this to my favourite child moose?

 

edit: I’m at least 80% sure they ran this through audacity, clicked “amplify” by x% and just laughed when the “this will cause some clipping” warning popped up

Oh boy. I haven't listened to it yet. Now I'm scared. Original CE mix is probably my favourite of all Muse's dicog. 

Edit: just listened. Not a huge fan of the new drum sound, but I do really like the tone of the clean guitar after the first chorus. I love the original, but it's cool to hear a different version.

Edited by Timbo59
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11 hours ago, Claudia O said:

Do you know what would‘ve been a much better release? Oos live, in full, at Reading 2011 - on Vinyl. For Record  Store Day or not, I don‘t care. Yes, the one from the boxset. Why not do the fans a favour? There are many who couldn‘t afford the boxset..

Who‘s drunk idea was it to mix a masterpiece?? Or did Warner say „Let‘s make it modern!“ 😳😕 

edit: for me a remix is changing a song, like they did remixes of songs on b-sides! Change them to reggae, or techno or whatever, done by DJs... I get it that this remixing means something else, ok! 

seems like a cash grab tbh

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Claudia O said:

My idea? Or do you mean the actual remix..

I meant the actual remix. But after hearing the new CE I take it back. I'm actually excited to hear the rest. I don't think this will ever replace the original OOS, but it's cool to hear the other ideas they were playing around with at the time. I see it more like that Abbey Road super deluxe album thing that was released by The Beatles a few years ago. What big fan of the album WOULDN'T want to hear some alternate/early takes of it? IMO it's a great experience for the more invested fans. It gives you some insight into the creative process and the other ideas that were rejected or played around with. So I take back my criticism. I'm more excited for this than I was for ST or OOM.

Edited by Timbo59
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1 hour ago, Jobby said:

My toys are well and truly out of the pram and they’ll keep on flyin’

In all seriousness, there are a couple of reasons. For a start, Origin is my favourite album of all time and one of my favourite things in life full stop, has been for 12 years now. I’m naturally hesitant to say the least about the idea of it being significantly retouched in any way, rather than a simple remaster (which we already had and was unnecessary but harmless and fine). Especially when, after listening, I already reeeeally don’t like the result after one song. And, like I said before, personally I don’t really like the way it’s being billed so far. I do get the vibe that it’s being marketed as an “updated” version of the album that’s how it ‘should’ve’ sounded. Yes, the original will always be there, but is that now gonna get left in the dust with this album’s changes becoming the ‘canon’ Origin, especially for the band and younger fans? Is it gonna change live performances of the songs? When I talk about loving something from the record with another fan, are they actually gonna be thinking/talking about the newer version?

Basically, this is something I’m incredibly attached to and I’m getting a bad vibe atm that it’s being somewhat invalidated, or at least at risk of it, by a very different band who wanna retroactively mould it to fit something closer to what they would make now.

If there wasn't the word remix in the title, you might have a point. I've seen other bands re-release albums with different tracklists substituting b-sides for album tracks. There's not even a cd release of this so I don't see this an attempt to rewrite history. The original still exists as something you buy and listen to. The marketing spiel is just that, spiel. It's just another cash crab to keep the coffers from emptying out before the next album. I've lived with this album since the day it was released, so I'm happy to see the band muck about with it just as they had been when they toured it live where the songs seemed to change from gig to gig.

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Posted (edited)

This reddit post shows a cool comparison between the two mixes. Hearing them side to side really makes the differences stand out, and makes me appreciate what I like about each version.

I'm trying to decide which song I'm most excited to hear in this updated sound. Maybe Megalomania? 

Edited by Timbo59
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On 5/20/2021 at 2:07 PM, Timbo59 said:

I'm sure these won't become the "official" versions. Hopefully will remain just an alternative version. I'm excited to hear this. Like a harpsichord in Micro Cuts? Hell yeah.

And 100% if this had happened in 2011 the hype on this board would have been awesome. RIP.

It's a bit like what Nirvana did with the In Utero 20th anniversary remixes, where Steve Albini redid the mixes using alternate takes and never-used elements that ended up on the cutting room floor.  They released them as a box set added as a second disc to accompany the original (albeit remastered) mixes. I still listen to those new mixes every now and then, as well as the original album. 

Since box sets don't make much sense in the digital age, this vinyl OoS release makes a lot of sense. Of course it's not meant to replace the original or official versions. You'd have to travel back in time to do that. 

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While I am similarly reluctant about these new mixes but I must admit that I've been playing the new CE pretty much daily thanks mostly to the fact that I have really cheap ear buds for running and the cleaner, cranked up mix of CE hits just right atm.

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I like the CE mix. It uses way more stereo field, it has a lot more guitar power in the riff which I never really liked with the keyboard, and the drums really punch more. Just a lot more clarity to the OoS mix. It does take some of the "spacey" feel the album is known for though. Notably through toning down the synths at the end but also by generally making it feel more like a live performance that sacrifices the interesting sonic character of the album. I like that both exist so I can get both takes.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, kueller said:

I like the CE mix. It uses way more stereo field, it has a lot more guitar power in the riff which I never really liked with the keyboard, and the drums really punch more. Just a lot more clarity to the OoS mix. It does take some of the "spacey" feel the album is known for though. Notably through toning down the synths at the end but also by generally making it feel more like a live performance that sacrifices the interesting sonic character of the album. I like that both exist so I can get both takes.

I think the mix in the riff comes closer to the RATM feel I imagine they were trying to go for back in the day. I really like this mix, can't wait to get a proper high quality listen. Only gripe is that it sounds like it doesn't bleed over into Micro Cuts anymore. Oh well... 

EDIT: Oh crap, it IS available on Amazon Music. It wasn't popping up in my search results. Having a high def listen now. 

Edited by That Little Animal
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Posted (edited)

Matt saying in the BTS video that they basically deleted the phasing siren transition between CE and Micro Cuts so you could hear the strings better, and that it’s what they originally “meant” exactly sums up the bug bear I have about this project

🤢

I’m less opposed to the mix at this point (my first listen was a weirdly bad rip I think but I still *vastly* prefer the normal version) but the vibe/implication that this is actually the ‘real’ Origin that they meant to make all along is still all the yuck

Edited by Jobby
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1 hour ago, Jobby said:

Matt saying in the BTS video that they basically deleted the phasing siren transition between CE and Micro Cuts so you could hear the strings better, and that it’s what they originally “meant” exactly sums up the bug bear I have about this project

🤢

I’m less opposed to the mix at this point (my first listen was a weirdly bad rip I think but I still *vastly* prefer the normal version) but the vibe/implication that this is actually the ‘real’ Origin that they meant to make all along is still all the yuck

I don't really mind. I'm sure there were many things they "meant" or wanted to do back then that they didn't have the means or skills or time to pull off, and thank God they didn't, cause it turned out perfectly. 

If they want to make a less-perfect rendition today --with a silly name and a crappy version of the original album artwork-- thinking it's what the album should have been, who cares? We get an extra interpretation to listen to and neither our memories, nor the original recording will be replaced. 
 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, That Little Animal said:

I don't really mind. I'm sure there were many things they "meant" or wanted to do back then that they didn't have the means or skills or time to pull off, and thank God they didn't, cause it turned out perfectly. 

If they want to make a less-perfect rendition today --with a silly name and a crappy version of the original album artwork-- thinking it's what the album should have been, who cares? We get an extra interpretation to listen to and neither our memories, nor the original recording will be replaced. 
 

It’s not the feeling that Origin is being replaced, I’m seeing that often from people online. So many newer/younger gen fans telling “cringe” fans who daren’t kiss Muse’s arse with everything and post Matt fancams all day to just “go listen to the original lol, it’s still there”.

I think it’s a combination of knowing things like that just aren’t true in the first place (I’m pretty sure there’s interviews you can find where they talked about consciously choosing to leave off the strings, and is Matt trying to imply that transition was like an accident or something? lmao) and it just feels kinda shitty/rude to imply that this version of the album and these details that people treasured all these years wasn’t actually the intended ‘proper’ version, which they’re now restoring. It feels...idk, maybe delegitimising is the word.

I know they’re not intentionally meaning to do that but just bill it as an alternative “what if?” and leave it at that. We all know that modern Muse would absolutely do something like take that harsh siren out in favour of strings but that’s been an iconic transition on the record for us lot since it released, why demean it by implying it never should’ve been there just because you’re different artists 20 years later? Just a small (but big) example really.

Maybe this is my Han Shot First lmao

Edited by Jobby
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14 hours ago, Jobby said:

Matt saying in the BTS video that they basically deleted the phasing siren transition between CE and Micro Cuts so you could hear the strings better, and that it’s what they originally “meant” exactly sums up the bug bear I have about this project

🤢

I’m less opposed to the mix at this point (my first listen was a weirdly bad rip I think but I still *vastly* prefer the normal version) but the vibe/implication that this is actually the ‘real’ Origin that they meant to make all along is still all the yuck

Yeah the disrespect he showed to that phasing siren made me a little sad.

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Posted (edited)

ok. Finally got round to listening to it, in no rush. It‘s more heavy which is good, I always wondered why it is more rocking live! The mix sounds like they recorded it now, with Matts younger vocals 😅 

But I often frowned, when suddenly there were more drums, or guitars going up the scale until it squeaked 🤨 and I say a straight NO to the ending with the strings! I would‘ve kept the dreamy phasing siren plus the strings, how would this sound like?! I still got goosebumps but it just didn‘t sound right, the dreamy atmosphere was missing.
 

All in all I‘m happy that the original version isn‘t gone, I wouldn‘t trade it for anything! It‘s my fave Muse-song for a  reason! I‘m not angry they did this mix, but as some already said here, Matt sounded like he disrespected their younger selves and their, or the record company‘s,  decision back then.. or this is his good marketing stragedy 😜

 

All in all, nice to have but not really necessary for me.. let‘s see how the other songs turn out! 

Edited by Claudia O
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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Jobby said:

It’s not the feeling that Origin is being replaced, I’m seeing that often from people online. So many newer/younger gen fans telling “cringe” fans who daren’t kiss Muse’s arse with everything and post Matt fancams all day to just “go listen to the original lol, it’s still there”.

 

God forbid anyone has a different opinion to you. As someone who bought the album the day it came out and pretty much shitpost on most things Muse do these days, I find the above amusing. I can't really tell if you're doing a meta joke of Citizen Erased lyrics or if you're just really stressed about something and using this as a pressure valve. 

I have to say I'm really happy we finally have someone who witnessed the recording of OoS to tell us what really went down and that they people who literally wrote and recorded the album are lying to us because they have a 20 year grudge against a synthesiser track. Are you really sure you're not doing a meta joke of the Citizen Erased lyrics, it would be epic if you were.

Break me in, teach us to cheat

And to lie, cover up

What shouldn't be shared

And the truth's unwinding

Scraping away at my mind

Please stop asking me to describe

Edited by Silentgod86
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Posted (edited)

What‘s happening here right now 🤔 

Ah! A glimpse of the board I got to know some years ago, when it was still alive, with fights !I don‘t want them back, no thanks!
 Everybody’s got their own opinions ... 

Edited by Claudia O
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Silentgod86 said:

God forbid anyone has a different opinion to you. As someone who bought the album the day it came out and pretty much shitpost on most things Muse do these days, I find the above amusing. I can't really tell if you're doing a meta joke of Citizen Erased lyrics or if you're just really stressed about something and using this as a pressure valve. 

I have to say I'm really happy we finally have someone who witnessed the recording of OoS to tell us what really went down and that they people who literally wrote and recorded the album are lying to us because they have a 20 year grudge against a synthesiser track. Are you really sure you're not doing a meta joke of the Citizen Erased lyrics, it would be epic if you were.

I’m honestly not really sure what you’re saying.

If you’re implying that I have a problem with other opinions, it’s exactly the opposite. I’ve said more than once in here that, if other people like the new mix, more power to them. Here, I’m highlighting how other fans are dismissing the opinions of those who don’t like it. People should be allowed to not like it without being called “cringe” and being told to just go listen to something else.

If you’re also implying that I’m pretending to know everything that went into their decision-making for OOS, I’m not and that’d obviously be ridiculous. I base what I know on what they themselves said at the time the album was released, and the information that’s available from the making of the record. As I pointed out, I’m pretty sure (it’s been a while since I went through all their interviews so would have to refresh my memory) they specifically talked about leaving the strings off because it was too much. Now, it’s apparently what they always “meant”, in favour of something else that was obviously consciously included on the song at release. That’s nothing to do with Matt “lying”, I haven’t said or implied that. But it’s completely possible to forget or colour your memory of something after decades of personal change.

Edited by Jobby
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On 5/29/2021 at 9:11 PM, Silentgod86 said:

God forbid anyone has a different opinion to you. As someone who bought the album the day it came out and pretty much shitpost on most things Muse do these days, I find the above amusing. I can't really tell if you're doing a meta joke of Citizen Erased lyrics or if you're just really stressed about something and using this as a pressure valve. 

I have to say I'm really happy we finally have someone who witnessed the recording of OoS to tell us what really went down and that they people who literally wrote and recorded the album are lying to us because they have a 20 year grudge against a synthesiser track. Are you really sure you're not doing a meta joke of the Citizen Erased lyrics, it would be epic if you were.

Break me in, teach us to cheat

And to lie, cover up

What shouldn't be shared

And the truth's unwinding

Scraping away at my mind

Please stop asking me to describe

Frankly, you seem to be the only one unwilling to accept other people's opinions. Jobby hasn't questioned anyone other than Matt himself, because what Matt's saying now is directly contradicting what he said back when the album was released. 

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On 5/29/2021 at 3:47 PM, Claudia O said:

What‘s happening here right now 🤔 

Ah! A glimpse of the board I got to know some years ago, when it was still alive, with fights !I don‘t want them back, no thanks!
 Everybody’s got their own opinions ... 

:srsb33f:

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