VIP/CID - Early Entry Disaster woes

[drksid3]

3 hours ago, ncla said:

I don't understand why there is arguing about the premium tickets. Whether or not it is the right thing to do for fans is irrelevant, the early entry in this case has been false advertising, not specific and/or vague. I bought premium tickets for Finland because I can't be bothered to deal with the extra amount of people in standing. The venue is open air, and there will be no seats, meaning more people. I don't know about you folks in U.S. with consumer laws, but pretty sure in EU they would have tougher time denying refunds, but who knows with these concert tickets and them being non-refundable because it's an event..

Not trying to be pessimistic on purpose but I don't think refunds in Europe work any differently. If anything, it's worse over here... US consumer laws are pretty hardcore. 

Though there is really nothing you can do in both cases if think about it. That's the worst part of it. Say, if someone with a GA ticket is let in the golden pit even though they don't have a pass for that (how many times does that happen... that's why I don't buy golden pit tickets anymore. You just need to be there early to get a wristband, save money and run for the barrier like anyone else) you wouldn't have any right to complain either because that's management's call. Same here with letting GA in at the same time as 2nd trier VIPs. The organizer (CID) doesn't have any power over management and management doesn't owe you anything. It's like complaining because they use different props or change the set. 

[ncla]

7 minutes ago, drksid3 said:

you wouldn't have any right to complain either because that's management's call. Same here with letting GA in at the same time as 2nd trier VIPs. The organizer (CID) doesn't have any power over management and management doesn't owe you anything. It's like complaining because they use different props or change the set.  

So just because it's someone else who made the call, that makes it acceptable? And your example is invalid, because they are not advertising those props or specific set when selling the ticket.

Tell you what, as I was thinking of writing/calling up the consumer protection government place thing anyway, I'll ask them about this situation and if there is any chance of recourse.

[drksid3]

7 minutes ago, ncla said:

So just because it's someone else who made the call, that makes it acceptable? And your example is invalid, because they are not advertising those props or specific set when selling the ticket.

Tell you what, as I was thinking of writing/calling up the consumer protection government place thing anyway, I'll ask them about this situation and if there is any chance of recourse.

Idk I'm not an attorney but there are precedents for this and it was always concluded that you can't dispute management decisions. 

Especially since what they give you (vips) is still early access even though the terms aren't specified in the conditions....but they weren't very specific for the drones tour either. It's up to them to decide how they want to execute it but it's early access in both cases, if you only skip GA queue or you actually get inside before everyone else. Top trier VIPs DO get inside before anyone else so it's just those middle bundles that are executed in a different way. I think it's both because of the initial protest (and backlash they got for the drones tour early access) and because they sold too many and didn't want to make things worse (or get in trouble...don't think you can reserve the whole front without a vip pit policy)  but kinda not illegal because they're still "technically" giving early access.

Edited March 3, 2019 by drksid3

[dreamyana]

On 3/3/2019 at 3:08 PM, drksid3 said:

Again I think they changed it since last tour because of both the backlash they got for it and because they sold more bundles than they were expecting and feared causing a real storm (the petition was already enough... I will never forgive the people holding up those signs at the Royal Albert Hall. That was just rude and Matt was pissed about it, thinking the motion didn't reach the band is just naive at this point). They're still not breaking any law because line skipping is early access but hell, I understand that people are pissed about it. I would be mad too if I had paid extra thinking I would be let on the floor before the others and then seeing it reduced to me having to run for a spot as GA comes in from the other side. It would still be only my assumption because the conditions are not clear about this (do I enter before GA? How early is the access?)....and that's why they're allowed to do this.

I get it that on one side they're trying to make everyone happy. Imo, next time, they should just NOT have early access bundles. It's really not worth the price and the drama. 

Nothing against the EE bundles instead, that looks cool although overpriced.

I agree with that completely - that's why I'm done arguing about it. There's nothing to be done, sadly, and we have to get over it. The only think I wish could happen is to make sure that 2tier VIP with 'early access' won't happen next time. 

Totally agree about RAH - I was so in for the petition, but the signs were way too much. 

I think the issue with the backlash and mentioned lack of coherence comes from the fact, that even though we did the petition and tried to make them aware, they have never officially replied, commented or even gave us a sign that they know. That's why I personally decided to buy that bloody ticket in the end. It wasn't something I was happy doing (obviously), but since I couldn't fight them, I've joined them. Not the best philosophy and I'm not particularly proud of it, but I also don' regret it. I stand by choice - I did what I had to do, to make sure I get to the front. Sure thing that I won't do that ever again now - lesson learnt, never again VIP for early access bullshit. 

And I know I'll still get there, even with GA coming in at the same time - I don't want that to change, I don't want to be seen as the one who fights against GA goers. I'd much rather get a refund and go queuing as I've always had! My anger and disappointment is only in the WAY they "fixed" it. Behind our backs.  That was a shitty move. And I would like them to at least fix it by making sure that won't happen again. Do VIP, Enhance Experiences and what not all you want, but leave access to the floor to GA. That;s my wish. If I can't get the refund, I'd like to get that at least, for the future shows. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by dreamyana

[hyena17]

Well in SD, it sounds like VIP got in early, so I guess problem solved?  Now we're back to wondering if normal GA will have any barrier space left!!  Pretty skilled of Muse to create a situation where there will be an angry mob of people no matter what you do.  😅 And they could have avoided it all, but *shrug*

[dreamyana]

4 hours ago, hyena17 said:

Well in SD, it sounds like VIP got in early, so I guess problem solved?  Now we're back to wondering if normal GA will have any barrier space left!!  Pretty skilled of Muse to create a situation where there will be an angry mob of people no matter what you do.  😅 And they could have avoided it all, but *shrug*

Oh well. Not that I'm surprised 😛 

[Claudia O]

I read on Twitter that Muse did this move, letting  VIP and GA in at the same time, but now decided to not do it anymore because some VIP‘s complained. .. guys, never sell Early Access - tickets again, problem solved (at least for the next tour) 

[Jobby]

31 minutes ago, Claudia O said:

I read on Twitter that Muse did this move, letting  VIP and GA in at the same time, but now decided to not do it anymore because some VIP‘s complained. .. guys, never sell Early Access - tickets again, problem solved (at least for the next tour) 

What’s the source on that though, or is it just speculation?

[Claudia O]

i don‘t know it, sorry. I read this and several other tweets .. but I‘m trying to find it out.

 

edit: apparently some guy from CID talked about this to some ppl in the vip-queue at yesterdays gig ..

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Claudia O

[MAurelia]

So if the band decided that the VIPs entered the floor at the same time as GA...I will get angry and I will ask for a refund. 

 

[Jobby]

Yeah, unfortunately they’ve backed themselves into a situation they really can’t win with now. Change it either way and you’re fucking off one side, now the GA fans are pissed again (understandably). Hopefully the hassle will indeed persuade them to avoid it in future.

Think this coulda worked out perfectly if they’d just addressed it online when (assuming this is true) the decision was made. I get that they’ve always stayed quiet publically when it comes to any remote controversies but something as simple as “Look, we’ve heard complaints from hardcore fans about the early access and we understand so we’re gonna scrap it. Anyone who bought VIP solely for the early access can swap to a normal GA ticket and have the price difference refunded.” would’ve settled it fine.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Jobby

[plastic passion]

2 hours ago, Jobby said:

 

Think this coulda worked out perfectly if they’d just addressed it online when (assuming this is true) the decision was made. I get that they’ve always stayed quiet publically when it comes to any remote controversies but something as simple as “Look, we’ve heard complaints from hardcore fans about the early access and we understand so we’re gonna scrap it. Anyone who bought VIP solely for the early access can swap to a normal GA ticket and have the price difference refunded.” would’ve settled it fine.

Exactly. So maybe next time dont sell vip, sell less, or block off a section for them. Easy. 

That comment thread associated with that above tweet is ridiculous. How are people mad that VIP want what they pay for?

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by plastic passion

[Jobby]

8 hours ago, plastic passion said:

That comment thread associated with that above tweet is ridiculous. How are people mad that VIP want what they pay for?

Because while VIPs are now getting what they paid for, they’re back to being screwed. It’s p understandable.

Ideally the complaints would’ve resulted in offered refunds and an explanation that the early access has been diluted because of backlash but I always feared that the most likely outcome was just gonna be “let them in earlier”.

[Meisver]

I had VIP tickets a few years ago. It cost me a lot of money for nothing special. After that I went back to GA tickets. Muse as a band is now a money making machine...so be it...bound to all sorts of contracts. Of course we don't want only the rich and famous on front row or in the royal lounge. It is good that the fancommunity protested. Question is: will they stop this train? I think: yes, because it's Muse.

[frutiger75]

the band gets their typical cut of a general GA ticket, a very small slice of the VIP upcharge, and CID gets the remainder.  most of the premium goes to CID. 

also, the "barrier" is very large when considering the existence of a ramp, so, easily, a few hundred VIPs (both tiers) and a good number of lucky lottery GA peeps can get "barrier" spots.  

so long as five minutes successfully gets VIPs on to the floor prior to any general GA peeps, i think that's sufficient.

execution, however, is another topic altogether.

Edited March 8, 2019 by frutiger75
grammar

[hyena17]

IMO your estimates are way off.  Just from my experience in Dallas, by the time I got to the floor, there was maybe the 15 spots on Matt's side of the catwalk, half the b-stage tip, and a handful of spots on chris's catwalk that were open.  Maybe 30 spots total?  Maybe more than that in the corners at the main stage -- I didn't look there.  I mean, just by looking at photos of the gigs you can count heads and the barrier only holds about 100. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by hyena17

[frutiger75]

13 minutes ago, hyena17 said:

IMO your estimates are way off.  Just from my experience in Dallas, by the time I got to the floor, there was maybe the 15 spots on Matt's side of the catwalk, half the b-stage tip, and a handful of spots on chris's catwalk that were open.  Maybe 30 spots total?  Maybe more than that in the corners at the main stage -- I didn't look there.  I mean, just by looking at photos of the gigs you can count heads and the barrier only holds about 100. 

depending on the size of the arena floor, the "barrier" holds closer to 200 from the far edge of stage right, along/around the catwalk, and to the far edge of stage left (also dependent on the girth of the people on the "barrier", ha).  

'hundreds' may have been overstating a bit, but there is definitely enough room for both tiers of VIPs and at least a few lucky GAs to get to the barrier, if coordinated correctly.

[hyena17]

I would love to believe your estimate -- I will use that to make me feel better for the gigs left that I have GA for.  😁

[frutiger75]

11 minutes ago, hyena17 said:

I would love to believe your estimate -- I will use that to make me feel better for the gigs left that I have GA for.  😁

all kinds of weird logistics have been in play at various gigs to date as far as GA/floor/pit entry is concerned, so...until a further course of facilitating a consistent, coordinated entry is employed, it's a crapshoot.

Edited March 8, 2019 by frutiger75

[OriginOfAbso]

So does anyone know about how many VIP floor ticket holders there usually are? Like do they fill up most of the barrier? With how much barrier there is at these shows, I'm gonna be bummed if I can't get to any of it. I was even planning on standing back at one of the sides of the B-stage.

[JessicaSarahS]

1 minute ago, OriginOfAbso said:

So does anyone know about how many VIP floor ticket holders there usually are? Like do they fill up most of the barrier? With how much barrier there is at these shows, I'm gonna be bummed if I can't get to any of it. I was even planning on standing back at one of the sides of the B-stage.

Last I heard, it was estimated about 100 VIP floor people? I could be wrong though. 

Because of the height of the stage, you'll have a pretty good view from anywhere. As a shorty, I'm actually worried being too close now. I feel the area at the end of the B-stage is the best for show viewing. 

[OriginOfAbso]

1 minute ago, JessicaSarahS said:

Last I heard, it was estimated about 100 VIP floor people? I could be wrong though. 

Because of the height of the stage, you'll have a pretty good view from anywhere. As a shorty, I'm actually worried being too close now. I feel the area at the end of the B-stage is the best for show viewing. 

Yeah I did think about that. Just really was hoping to have that prime spot for the ultimate experience. Plus I've been wanting any sort of interaction with the band for a decade now and that would be my one chance to high-five Matt haha.

[plastic passion]

42 minutes ago, JessicaSarahS said:

Last I heard, it was estimated about 100 VIP floor people? I could be wrong though. 

Because of the height of the stage, you'll have a pretty good view from anywhere. As a shorty, I'm actually worried being too close now. I feel the area at the end of the B-stage is the best for show viewing. 

 

Someone said they are 5'4 and could barely see over the b stage to the main stage. I'm 5'0 so I'm sad. I literally went online and bought boots with a 4 inch heel so I could maybe have a chance to see over the stage. ugh.

[OriginOfAbso]

6 minutes ago, plastic passion said:

 

Someone said they are 5'4 and could barely see over the b stage to the main stage. I'm 5'0 so I'm sad. I literally went online and bought boots with a 4 inch heel so I could maybe have a chance to see over the stage. ugh.

Yeah that's where I originally was planning for, but decided to go with the side of the B-stage instead. If I can even get to it.

[MrsRaven]

On 3/3/2019 at 3:08 PM, drksid3 said:

I get it that on one side they're trying to make everyone happy. Imo, next time, they should just NOT have early access bundles. It's really not worth the price and the drama. 

I agree with this - I have queued lots of times for hours to get barrier but this time felt the only way this was going to happen was to get a vip ticket - on other tours I have gone to more than one gig but this time can only afford to do one if I want to get on the barrier, I am not loaded and it upsets me that I am being accused of buying my way to the front.  I would much rather have bought “normal” tickets and take my chances with everyone else at two gigs.  Hope everyone enjoys themselves anyway !