VIP/CID - Early Entry Disaster woes

[Jobby]

3 hours ago, ben637 said:

However, unlike a lot of the current generation I don’t spend money on tv packages and expensive phones/contracts, Prime etc. So I don’t consider myself to be one of the “rich” people a referring to that buy the VIP tickets, genuine fans buy them too.

That’s only a small part of it for me tbh. My issue with the concept is that fans who religiously queue up for entire days, sometimes overnight, will start potentially missing the spots they work so hard to get simply because someone else paid an amount of money they can’t afford to drop on one ticket. Regardless of whether the person in what could’ve been their spot is a diehard fan or only knows 1 song, it’s still almost inevitably coming at the expense of someone who put in the physical effort queueing.

I don’t like getting overly emotionally invested in things like this but maybe ‘cos I’d actually consider myself of these people, it genuinely gets to me a lot to say the least. Personally, if I’d queued up since 6am or earlier and missed out on a barrier spot ‘cos of a VIP, them being a big fan wouldn’t make me feel much better.

[hyena17]

1 hour ago, Jobby said:

That’s only a small part of it for me tbh. My issue with the concept is that fans who religiously queue up for entire days, sometimes overnight, will start potentially missing the spots they work so hard to get simply because someone else paid an amount of money they can’t afford to drop on one ticket. Regardless of whether the person in what could’ve been their spot is a diehard fan or only knows 1 song, it’s still almost inevitably coming at the expense of someone who put in the physical effort queueing.

I don’t like getting overly emotionally invested in things like this but maybe ‘cos I’d actually consider myself of these people, it genuinely gets to me a lot to say the least. Personally, if I’d queued up since 6am or earlier and missed out on a barrier spot ‘cos of a VIP, them being a big fan wouldn’t make me feel much better.

This isn't a new thing.  I generally queue for 10-12 hours for every Muse gig I go to because I have to be on barrier in order to see.  I did in fact miss out on barrier spots on the Drones tour as well as during the amphitheater tour due to VIPs.  It sucks.  I have also gotten screwed at gigs where there was no VIP at all because the venue messed up the entry procedures.  It happens.  Any gig you go to you are taking a risk that you're not going to get what you want.

[Jobby]

36 minutes ago, hyena17 said:

This isn't a new thing.  I generally queue for 10-12 hours for every Muse gig I go to because I have to be on barrier in order to see.  I did in fact miss out on barrier spots on the Drones tour as well as during the amphitheater tour due to VIPs.  It sucks.  I have also gotten screwed at gigs where there was no VIP at all because the venue messed up the entry procedures.  It happens.  Any gig you go to you are taking a risk that you're not going to get what you want.

Course there’s always variables, someone could push in up the queue, doors could open at different times, etc. etc. but those are all accepted risks that are mostly out of anyone’s control. It’s happened to most people who queue up like that at some point but all you can really do is say “shit happens”.

It’s obviously different when you make it organised and money-based though. It’s not one arsehole pushing in or pot-luck with the doors, it’s a predeterminate chunk of people being handed barrier spots over other fans ‘cos they can afford to pay more. People who have no option but to queue up shouldn’t have to worry about that. But like you say, it sucks so I don’t need to explain it to you. Unfortunately it looks like it’s here to stay since the backlash was never really loud enough and people ended up feeling like they had no choice but to cave and buy in.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Jobby

[hyena17]

Honestly I think there's a decent chance that with all the upset people that they change it for the next tour.  There's other ways to make extra $$ - there are plenty of VIP packages they can come up with that don't include early entry.  Other bands seem to be able to come up with plenty of ideas.

[elvvis]

Email from CID 

“Thank you for reaching out to us! As fans ourselves, we completely empathize with wanting to be as close to the stage as possible, and with this understanding in mind, we put a high emphasis on providing the entry before door time to our VIPs, as well as providing the dedicated entrance to further limit queuing time for the folks participating in our packages. While we do not oversee any guests that purchased standard show tickets (as opposed to VIP), we can assure you that we will continue to provide our guests with early and efficient access to the floor. If you need anything more, please don’t hesitate to let us know.“

[ben637]

On 2/27/2019 at 11:03 PM, hyena17 said:

section

 

On 2/27/2019 at 11:03 PM, hyena17 said:

this is a good description, but in dallas, there was no delay.  They let GAs into the bowl at the same time as the top-tier VIP.  I was at the front of the line of the 2nd-tier group and there were about 40 top-tiers total in front of us.  By the time I got far enough past the section entrance to see the lower bowl and the floor, there were already GAs streaming in from the other side.  At this point there were about 20 people still in front of me going down the steps (it was a single-file line). 

Do you have an idea of how many 2nd tier there were? To give an idea of how many of these tickets they are selling. 

[Gemsy]

On 2/28/2019 at 1:53 PM, Jobby said:

Course there’s always variables, someone could push in up the queue, doors could open at different times, etc. etc. but those are all accepted risks that are mostly out of anyone’s control. It’s happened to most people who queue up like that at some point but all you can really do is say “shit happens”.

It’s obviously different when you make it organised and money-based though. It’s not one arsehole pushing in or pot-luck with the doors, it’s a predeterminate chunk of people being handed barrier spots over other fans ‘cos they can afford to pay more. People who have no option but to queue up shouldn’t have to worry about that. But like you say, it sucks so I don’t need to explain it to you. Unfortunately it looks like it’s here to stay since the backlash was never really loud enough and people ended up feeling like they had no choice but to cave and buy in.

Yeah there were only 300 signatures on the petition. That's like... not even one front row.

[hyena17]

6 hours ago, ben637 said:

 

Do you have an idea of how many 2nd tier there were? To give an idea of how many of these tickets they are selling. 

I counted our line about 10 mins before we went into the building and there were 70 give or take a few.  About 10 of these ended up being separated out bc they had seats.  I also was sort of keeping track of the top-tier VIPs as they checked in and it was a larger number - maybe 80?  But keep in mind a larger percentage of those people have seats.  When we got inside the building and were lined up on the concourse, there were about 40 top-tier VIP in front of us to go down to the floor.

Ofc I have no idea if they have a hard cap on the number for sale or if it fluctuates with each gig.  I would kind of think 100 is a good estimate of total floor VIP. 

[ben637]

28 minutes ago, hyena17 said:

I counted our line about 10 mins before we went into the building and there were 70 give or take a few.  About 10 of these ended up being separated out bc they had seats.  I also was sort of keeping track of the top-tier VIPs as they checked in and it was a larger number - maybe 80?  But keep in mind a larger percentage of those people have seats.  When we got inside the building and were lined up on the concourse, there were about 40 top-tier VIP in front of us to go down to the floor.

Ofc I have no idea if they have a hard cap on the number for sale or if it fluctuates with each gig.  I would kind of think 100 is a good estimate of total floor VIP. 

Thanks, good to have an idea, I have 2nd tier which I only bought for the early access but with all the controversy of early access not being honoured I’m trying to understand how much it matters. In my mind if the vip queue is only around that many then you should be able to get a good spot even if entering at the same time as GA. for me, I’m going to Bristol and the plans imply a golden circle presumably based on first come first served (like I experienced at Foos London Stadium). If this is the case it feels like it should not be a problem if they continue to not honour early access. It’s still not acceptable though as they are sellling something they are not giving. Although reading the tweets from CID it sounds to me like they are counting on not breaking contract as long as they let you in even seconds before advertised doors time. They are using the same language and insisting they are letting in before doors time. There’s nothing stopping GA being let in a min or two early as technically CID aren’t saying you get in before GA (just before advertised doors time).

last question, do you get the poster/lunch box before entry and therefore able to take it back to your car to store? Or are you stuck with it inside?

[hyena17]

1 hour ago, ben637 said:

last question, do you get the poster/lunch box before entry and therefore able to take it back to your car to store? Or are you stuck with it inside?

I was there early enough to check in as soon as they started processing people (3pm).  You have plenty of time to go back to your hotel or car and come back.  2nd tier was supposed to be let in at 5pm.

Edited March 2, 2019 by hyena17

[dreamyana]

On 2/28/2019 at 7:43 AM, ben637 said:

However, unlike a lot of the current generation I don’t spend money on tv packages and expensive phones/contracts, Prime etc. So I don’t consider myself to be one of the “rich” people a referring to that buy the VIP tickets, genuine fans buy them too.

Yeah, that's kind of obvious to me. However people still give me shit for actually buying it and it simply pisses me off.

The more time passes though, the more I accept that was a lesson to be learnt. The hard way. 

On 2/28/2019 at 5:30 PM, hyena17 said:

Honestly I think there's a decent chance that with all the upset people that they change it for the next tour.  There's other ways to make extra $$ - there are plenty of VIP packages they can come up with that don't include early entry.  Other bands seem to be able to come up with plenty of ideas.

That's precisely what I'm hoping for. My correspondence with CID is fruitless, just as all their social media replies are. It's become obvious that we won't get any refunds and we'll have to stick with ridiculously overpriced poster and fucking lunchbox (actually, today is the day when it actually makes me laugh at myself). It's a shame, it still makes my blood boiling, but I'm getting over it. And the only GOOD thing that can come out of it now, is to try to channel people's anger into sabotaging the idea of VIP in the first place. Made more noise. I kind of see it as a chance for something we never managed to achieve before tickets went on sale. 

I'd like to make everyone aware what the problem with the premium ticket is - it's obviously not worth the price and people should be discouraged from buying them. If we can't help those who already bought them, lets prevent anyone else to buy any more of them.

Also, would be great to make management / band aware of the general (I hope) disagreement with it. I mean, I hope that it will be a chance to unite the fans rather than divide them. Instead of just sitting here and hope it will change next tour, we could maybe try to make our point more visible? 

I know some people still look at me angrily as I did give in and bought them (fair enough, I kinda look at myself like this as well atm), but let's move on from that, okay? My mistake and I'll deal with it on my own. Lesson learnt, won't ever do VIP for early access again. 

Instead of judging each other and sharing opposite opinions on this, maybe we could find some common cause in here and execute it...?

7 hours ago, hyena17 said:

I counted our line about 10 mins before we went into the building and there were 70 give or take a few.  About 10 of these ended up being separated out bc they had seats.  I also was sort of keeping track of the top-tier VIPs as they checked in and it was a larger number - maybe 80?  But keep in mind a larger percentage of those people have seats.  When we got inside the building and were lined up on the concourse, there were about 40 top-tier VIP in front of us to go down to the floor.

Ofc I have no idea if they have a hard cap on the number for sale or if it fluctuates with each gig.  I would kind of think 100 is a good estimate of total floor VIP. 

Yeah, I heard it was 107 exactly. Not sure how true, someone commented about it on one of the million posts on fcb  

[dreamyana]

6 hours ago, ben637 said:

In my mind if the vip queue is only around that many then you should be able to get a good spot even if entering at the same time as GA. for me, I’m going to Bristol and the plans imply a golden circle presumably based on first come first served (like I experienced at Foos London Stadium). If this is the case it feels like it should not be a problem if they continue to not honour early access.

Btw, I'm thinking along the same lines! And I'm going to Bristol gig as well, alone. Would like to have someone like-minded in the VIP line with me  are you going solo or with someone?

[hyena17]

1 minute ago, dreamyana said:

Btw, I'm thinking along the same lines! And I'm going to Bristol gig as well, alone. Would like to have someone like-minded in the VIP line with me  are you going solo or with someone?

I'll see you both there 😁

[dreamyana]

Just now, hyena17 said:

I'll see you both there 😁

I'd love a meet up before or after  or both

Edited March 2, 2019 by dreamyana

[elvvis]

This one is from Twitter  Muse group: 

“Since my delivery method for my ticket was will call, I first picked up my ticket from the box office before looking for the VIP line. I checked in with the staff, and they gave me the lunchbox with the poster inside along with a bracelet that indicated I was VIP and General Admission. Then I waited in line until they allowed us inside the arena for early merch shopping. After shopping, they had us wait before entering the floor until the doors opened to the public. Although there were a couple of people in front of me, I was able to make it to the barricade and the very end of the walkway! I hope this info helped!“

Sounds pretty good to me 

Edited March 3, 2019 by elvvis

[ben637]

It’s worth pointing out that for those of us in the UK, if you paid on a credit card you may be able to use section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. It makes the credit card company jointly responsible for resolving breach of contract. There are some exceptions and It may be that because we had to buy through Ticket Master and not CID it may not apply. Of course it may all be resolved by then and UK dates may have early access honoured. Important to note though that they only say early access before doors so evidence you would need is entry not being allowed before advertised doors time I imagine.

[MAurelia]

So, did VIP’s with early access enter the floor at the same time as GA? It’s seems that VIPs enter the arena for early merchandising shopping and not for the floor. This is not what I wanted and I  bought for. 

And yes, we are real fans and we bought VIPs tickets. We bought VIP tickets for the Drones Tour but seat tickets. This time we wanted another experience so we bought  stand tickets. We are not as young as before so we thought the  early access tickets were  perfect for us. Now I am expecting the worse.

I asked CID  to ensure early entry into  the gig I will attend and they told me that early access is granted and they will send me a mail with all the details a week before the gig. Fingers crossed! If not I will fight for a refund.

 

[ncla]

I don't understand why there is arguing about the premium tickets. Whether or not it is the right thing to do for fans is irrelevant, the early entry in this case has been false advertising, not specific and/or vague. I bought premium tickets for Finland because I can't be bothered to deal with the extra amount of people in standing. The venue is open air, and there will be no seats, meaning more people. I don't know about you folks in U.S. with consumer laws, but pretty sure in EU they would have tougher time denying refunds, but who knows with these concert tickets and them being non-refundable because it's an event..

[Jobby]

Christ, 100 standing VIPs? I had no idea but was sort of hoping it was limited to around 30, 50 at the absolute max. I’m estimating big time but, if they did all get a good amount of early entry time, that’d be like 1/3 of the barrier gone at these arenas, surely?

[drksid3]

49 minutes ago, Jobby said:

Christ, 100 standing VIPs? I had no idea but was sort of hoping it was limited to around 30, 50 at the absolute max. I’m estimating big time but, if they did all get a good amount of early entry time, that’d be like 1/3 of the barrier gone at these arenas, surely?

I think that is exactly why they're letting GA in at the same time.... people first protested against VIP assuming they would take up the whole barrier (that's never been the case imo, I don't even think they can actually reserve the barrier to VIPs only) and then bought VIP tickets anyway because what is coherence. So they basically ended up selling a lot of them... Since they have so many VIP GA standers and they can't risk them occupying the whole barrier (now that would be a reason to complain or even sue imo) they're letting GA in at the same time to make things fairer. 
I don't think it's either a scam or fake advertisement either, because skipping the line is still early access. You don't have to queue for hours for a chance to get a front spot, but once you're inside you're just like any other GA stander. That's fair, imo. I would get VIP only because I hate queueing. It's simply different from previous tours (drones) and no wonder there either, the GA early access caused a small riot on that tour (though the stage was 360° and the barrier space could accommodate everyone, vip and "peasants"). They actually did not have early access for general standing in the european vip packages (or at least most of them), VIPs got seats.

[hyena17]

4 minutes ago, drksid3 said:

I think that is exactly why they're letting GA in at the same time.... people first protested against VIP assuming they would take up the whole barrier (that's never been the case imo, I don't even think they can actually reserve the barrier to VIPs only)

That's exactly what happened with the amphitheater tour.  I only got barrier once and it was so far to the right of Chris that nobody wanted that spot - that area stayed empty for a while after doors. 

And, they didn't advertise just "early access" - it specifically said "early access to the floor" -- which on previous tours meant physically on the floor first.  Whether this is a 30 second head start or a 5 min head start, that can be up for debate. 

[drksid3]

19 minutes ago, hyena17 said:

That's exactly what happened with the amphitheater tour.  I only got barrier once and it was so far to the right of Chris that nobody wanted that spot - that area stayed empty for a while after doors. 

And, they didn't advertise just "early access" - it specifically said "early access to the floor" -- which on previous tours meant physically on the floor first.  Whether this is a 30 second head start or a 5 min head start, that can be up for debate. 

Yeah but they had a proper VIP pit there (it was one of 30STM VIP bundles) so the policies are very different... 

 

The ticket says "early access to the floor before doors", right? I haven't been following this closely but it seems like VIP were given access to the venue before doors and then waited there in line to be let on the floor, am I correct? According to some they had a full minute headstart on GA and some others say they were let in at the same time or 20 seconds apart. Though they still accessed the floor from another side in any case. 

If so, it's still the same... skipping the GA line does give you early access to the floor (because you don't go through the GA line), and before doors because you're already inside the venue (I'm guessing they do security checks before doors so that also counts as early entry). It's just a different system than that applied on the previous tour but still early access. 

One question, do the VIPs who get the EE package have a bonus headstart? So far I haven't seen any of them complaining...

Edited March 3, 2019 by drksid3

[hyena17]

Just now, drksid3 said:

The ticket says "early access to the floor before doors", right? I haven't been following this closely but it seems like VIP were given access to the venue before doors and then waited there in line to be let on the floor, am I correct? According to some they had a full minute headstart on GA and some others say they were let in at the same time or 20 seconds apart. Though they still accessed the floor from another side in any case. 

If so, it's still the same... skipping the GA line does give you early access to the floor (because you don't go through the GA line), and before doors because you're already inside the venue It's just a different system than that applied on the previous tour but still early access. 

One question, do the VIPs who get the EE package have a bonus headstart? So far I haven't seen any of them complaining...

Yes, that's what it says on the website.  And also yes to the second part (except in Dallas where the doors were delayed.  2nd tier VIP were supposed to get an hour inside the building (per CID staff) to get merch, etc, and we only got about 10 minutes where we couldn't actually do anything because we didn't know when they'd be letting us down to the floor).

And it does seem that so far the head start has ranged from zero to 20 seconds according to reports.  I have to disagree with your argument that it is still early access to the floor.  It's just not. They've offered the packages with the same wording on previous tours, and it established a precedent that early access to the floor meant "literally be on the floor to choose a spot before GA was allowed in" - I never timed it, but it was usually around 5 minutes, maybe longer.  This is excessive ofc, but this thread isn't to debate how wrong this is.

I've seen conflicting reports on FB about what happened last night.  Someone with EE said that GA were let in *before* they were, despite the CID people telling them that Tier 1 VIP *always* gets in first, and that when she got to the floor, there were a lot of GAs already there.  But someone else that had GA said that they were first in line and as they were entering, there were already VIPs coming down on Matt's side.

And, idk if I've said this on this thread, but I am fine with this "solution" to the problem OTHER THAN THE FACT it screwed over the people that paid money for Tier 2 explicitly for something they advertised and didn't get.  Those people should all get partial refunds.  On the next tour, they should do away with VIP early entry completely, or change the wording on the ticket to something like "access to the floor via a separate entrance from general GA at doors."

[drksid3]

1 minute ago, hyena17 said:

Yes, that's what it says on the website.  And also yes to the second part (except in Dallas where the doors were delayed.  2nd tier VIP were supposed to get an hour inside the building (per CID staff) to get merch, etc, and we only got about 10 minutes where we couldn't actually do anything because we didn't know when they'd be letting us down to the floor).

And it does seem that so far the head start has ranged from zero to 20 seconds according to reports.  I have to disagree with your argument that it is still early access to the floor.  It's just not. They've offered the packages with the same wording on previous tours, and it established a precedent that early access to the floor meant "literally be on the floor to choose a spot before GA was allowed in" - I never timed it, but it was usually around 5 minutes, maybe longer.  This is excessive ofc, but this thread isn't to debate how wrong this is.

I've seen conflicting reports on FB about what happened last night.  Someone with EE said that GA were let in *before* they were, despite the CID people telling them that Tier 1 VIP *always* gets in first, and that when she got to the floor, there were a lot of GAs already there.  But someone else that had GA said that they were first in line and as they were entering, there were already VIPs coming down on Matt's side.

And, idk if I've said this on this thread, but I am fine with this "solution" to the problem OTHER THAN THE FACT it screwed over the people that paid money for Tier 2 explicitly for something they advertised and didn't get.  Those people should all get partial refunds.  On the next tour, they should do away with VIP early entry completely, or change the wording on the ticket to something like "access to the floor via a separate entrance from general GA at doors."

Seems like Dallas was a mess all around (the lottery fu*kery too)... but that was all on the venue I think? Though I think I would be pissed if I had paid 500$ to play some VR games and then see my time there reduced to 10 minutes. How much time do top trier VIP actually have with the games? I've read of someone who couldn't even play a round before it was time to line up to access the floor... that is simply robbery.

IMO they should have not had the 2nd level VIP package. It creates confusion because of the way it was advertised and generated discontent among the folks before tickets went on sale because to be completely candid,they were really making it sound like it was the only shot to a barrier spot. IIRC the VIP packages on the Drones tour all included the museum experience...that made sense. Paying extra only to skip the line and get a tin lunchbox? Greedy and unfair to people who can't afford the price and are still very deserving of a front spot like anyone else.

Again I think they changed it since last tour because of both the backlash they got for it and because they sold more bundles than they were expecting and feared causing a real storm (the petition was already enough... I will never forgive the people holding up those signs at the Royal Albert Hall. That was just rude and Matt was pissed about it, thinking the motion didn't reach the band is just naive at this point). They're still not breaking any law because line skipping is early access but hell, I understand that people are pissed about it. I would be mad too if I had paid extra thinking I would be let on the floor before the others and then seeing it reduced to me having to run for a spot as GA comes in from the other side. It would still be only my assumption because the conditions are not clear about this (do I enter before GA? How early is the access?)....and that's why they're allowed to do this.

I get it that on one side they're trying to make everyone happy. Imo, next time, they should just NOT have early access bundles. It's really not worth the price and the drama. 

Nothing against the EE bundles instead, that looks cool although overpriced.

[hyena17]

4 minutes ago, drksid3 said:

Seems like Dallas was a mess all around (the lottery fu*kery too)... but that was all on the venue I think? Though I think I would be pissed if I had paid 500$ to play some VR games and then see my time there reduced to 10 minutes. How much time do top trier VIP actually have with the games? I've read of someone who couldn't even play a round before it was time to line up to access the floor... that is simply robbery.

I'm not sure that anyone only got 10 mins with the games.  You saying someone only got one round in is the first I'm hearing of that.  In Dallas they were let in at 4pm despite the door delay due to soundcheck.  I assumed those people got to play games the whole time they were inside.  And yeah, I'd be asking for a full refund if that happened to me.

4 minutes ago, drksid3 said:

IMO they should have not had the 2nd level VIP package. It creates confusion because of the way it was advertised and generated discontent among the folks before tickets went on sale because to be completely candid,they were really making it sound like it was the only shot to a barrier spot. IIRC the VIP packages on the Drones tour all included the museum experience...that made sense. Paying extra only to skip the line and get a tin lunchbox? Greedy and unfair to people who can't afford the price and are still very deserving of a front spot like anyone else.

 

That's the thing.  A lot of people that don't normally buy VIP bought the 2nd tier because it sounded like it would be the only way to get barrier, especially since the stage would not be 360 like Drones. 

4 minutes ago, drksid3 said:

Again I think they changed it since last tour because of both the backlash they got for it and because they sold more bundles than they were expecting and feared causing a real storm (the petition was already enough... I will never forgive the people holding up those signs at the Royal Albert Hall. That was just rude and Matt was pissed about it, thinking the motion didn't reach the band is just naive at this point). They're still not breaking any law because line skipping is early access but hell, I understand that people are pissed about it. I would be mad too if I had paid extra thinking I would be let on the floor before the others and then seeing it reduced to me having to run for a spot as GA comes in from the other side. It would still be only my assumption because the conditions are not clear about this (do I enter before GA? How early is the access?)....and that's why they're allowed to do this.

Ugh thanks for reminding me about those signs at RAH. I thought I put it out of my mind.  I still can't get over how many people thought that was an OK thing to do -- at a freaking charity gig.