halo eighteen Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 ^The fact that nothing from 2007+ made the top 10 vote list kind of suggests otherwise. Anyone could have grabbed tickets to the SBE show and placed a vote, casual/hardcore/old/new/whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czuczu Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 ^The fact that nothing from 2007+ made the top 10 vote list kind of suggests otherwise. Anyone could have grabbed tickets to the SBE show and placed a vote, casual/hardcore/old/new/whatever. Cos casual fans really hit that 40 second window when tickets were actually available? The only non-hardcore fans there were the +1s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Either you alienate older fans, or fans who prefer the riffier stuff, by playing the 'pop' singles. Or you alienate the potentially bigger audience by throwing in a rarity or 5 that only gets a limited response. Or... You keep making good songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanp16 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 ^The fact that nothing from 2007+ made the top 10 vote list kind of suggests otherwise. Anyone could have grabbed tickets to the SBE show and placed a vote, casual/hardcore/old/new/whatever. Or people who won competitions, knew venue staff, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Why not accept that it is now a minority of Muse fans who want to hear the older stuff? It just feels really obvious. . It doesn't make the new stuff any better or the old stuff any less magnificent, it's just the way it is. No-one's making them write and release Dig Down and they're playing stadiums based on their reputation. They are a 'Glastonbury headliner, as seen on TV' and up there with Adele, Coldplay, Foo Fighters etc. They're overdue a big hits/compilation album, the song selections on that are gonna define the audiences they get for pretty much the rest of their career... Because Muse themselves clearly enjoy playing to hardcore fans much more, something they've quite explicitly said on several occasions. And that's why it's harder to let go, because there is obviously an incentive from Muse to play a wider variety of songs. ^The fact that nothing from 2007+ made the top 10 vote list kind of suggests otherwise. Anyone could have grabbed tickets to the SBE show and placed a vote, casual/hardcore/old/new/whatever.Yeah like czuczu said, this is obviously because it was a very small venue. Do you not remember the 2010 polls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Howe Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 The answer to this is to do exactly what Matt Bellamy claims he wants to do (speaking on Twitter after the sbe gig) "In future we will do other shows like this I'm sure. Maybe 'on the side' to accompany big shows. " Simple as that. So they could do say Manchester Arena for two nights and a fans night at the Manchester Academy on a third night. Of course whether they actually follow through with that idea is another thing entirely. I don't know why I bothered posting this. Or bothered with this forum. Toodlepip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czuczu Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Because Muse themselves clearly enjoy playing to hardcore fans much more, something they've quite explicitly said on several occasions. And that's why it's harder to let go, because there is obviously an incentive from Muse to play a wider variety of songs. Yeah like czuczu said, this is obviously because it was a very small venue. Do you not remember the 2010 polls? I think the niche gigs are a nice treat for them but they like the big gigs just fine - they're touring right now with no new product to promote but haven't made any effort to mix it up or rehearse anything new. And if you look at any random gig from a couple of pages back you can see nearly everyone who went to the 2016 gigs thought they were great. Just saw the 2010 poll results page has been deleted! I only went to one 2010 gig, they played RBS and everyone talked through it or went to the bar.. Should have been the highlight of the night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I feel like Muse differs from a lot of other bands that have shifted direction artistically later in their careers. I mean, they haven't ever really completely "shifted." For every Dead Inside, there was a Reapers. They do continue to make songs that appeal to the older fan base, but they bury them under crap when it comes to the singles most of the time, actively seeking mainstream fame, and that leads to them ignoring even those NEW songs live. Reapers was a radio single at rock radio and was still only rotated live. Now it's gone completely during its own album cycle. People in the US are hearing that song on the radio, going to gigs to find it not there, but getting pop hits from a decade ago. I wouldn't even mind going to a gig full of pop in the caliber of Dead Inside, either... but now even THE LEAD SINGLE from their current album is gone from at least half of their gigs. It's not a shift in artistic direction, it's that this band is already doing it's Greatest Hits Tour. And it's hard to say "well, it's what the band enjoys doing" when they complain about people just wanting to hear Madness at gigs, and look absolutely bored as fuck onstage at the Hits gigs. It's what the band is doing to put asses in seats and money in their pockets, and that's why it's a disappointment, because they don't even pretend to be engaged with it a lot of the time. SBE showed what the band COULD have been if they'd stopped worrying about being the biggest band in the world, and stayed true to what they (and their dedicated fans) enjoyed. And honestly? If they had been known for throwing some real gems in their setlists, they'd still have retained a larger portion of that really engaged fanbase, and they could have had a bit of both worlds. But no, they chose to worry about the lowest common denominator only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustyy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I don't know why I bothered posting this. Or bothered with this forum. Toodlepip. It is as simple as that:). If they do it, it'll be the best thing they've done in years, and would scratch all their itches. Yeah the forum isn't exactly the best environment at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I think the niche gigs are a nice treat for them but they like the big gigs just fine - they're touring right now with no new product to promote but haven't made any effort to mix it up or rehearse anything new. And if you look at any random gig from a couple of pages back you can see nearly everyone who went to the 2016 gigs thought they were great. Just saw the 2010 poll results page has been deleted! I only went to one 2010 gig, they played RBS and everyone talked through it or went to the bar.. Should have been the highlight of the night There's not a lot of us here, and those of us that went to gigs have tended to keep the complaints to the main tour thread, as these ones tend to be for people who show up after gigs but aren't major forum contributors, and it's kind of bad form to shit on those people. It's not a really accurate picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 It is as simple as that:). If they do it, it'll be the best thing they've done in years, and would scratch all their itches. Yeah the forum isn't exactly the best environment at times. It's not the best environment because no one responded to a post? It's not like someone attacked his idea or was hostile to him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I think the niche gigs are a nice treat for them but they like the big gigs just fine - they're touring right now with no new product to promote but haven't made any effort to mix it up or rehearse anything new. And if you look at any random gig from a couple of pages back you can see nearly everyone who went to the 2016 gigs thought they were great. Just saw the 2010 poll results page has been deleted! I only went to one 2010 gig, they played RBS and everyone talked through it or went to the bar.. Should have been the highlight of the night I think you're missing a couple of things since you're not here very often. What I'm talking about is that Muse themselves have complained that people don't seem to enjoy their deeper cuts at gigs, to which I say "it's their own damn fault". And every time they have played something out of the ordinary (Dead Star, Fury, Micro Cuts etc) they have apologised to the audience in advance, and then later spoken about how the crowd doesn't react well and that's why they barely do it anymore. So the whole "they haven't made an effort to mix it up so that means they must like it the way it is" doesn't really work. What it seems like to me is that they've given up trying. And if you look at this thread you can see many people who say that this gig was one of their best ever, rated by people who barely even attend Muse gigs anymore. It doesn't really tell us that much about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustyy Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 It's not the best environment because no one responded to a post? It's not like someone attacked his idea or was hostile to him... Never said they did:). It can be frosty at times that's all. Could've worded it better sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czuczu Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I think you're missing a couple of things since you're not here very often. What I'm talking about is that Muse themselves have complained that people don't seem to enjoy their deeper cuts at gigs, to which I say "it's their own damn fault". And every time they have played something out of the ordinary (Dead Star, Fury, Micro Cuts etc) they have apologised to the audience in advance, and then later spoken about how the crowd doesn't react well and that's why they barely do it anymore. So the whole "they haven't made an effort to mix it up so that means they must like it the way it is" doesn't really work. What it seems like to me is that they've given up trying. And if you look at this thread you can see many people who say that this gig was one of their best ever, rated by people who barely even attend Muse gigs anymore. It doesn't really tell us that much about anything. Haha, I lurk on a semi-regular basis - I'm not missing out that much of the hostile environment! Yeah, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy to not play old stuff and then complain no-one knows it when they do. How else does that stuff get promoted if they don't do it themselves? That's why I raised the prospect of the hits album - when it happens then its going to have a massive impact on how they're viewed, regardless of whether they're involved in track selection. Put a good mix of older/harder tracks on that and if it does well then that familiarity argument goes out the window. Push the pop stuff and its pretty much impossible to come back from that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Never said they did:). It can be frosty at times that's all. Could've worded it better sorry His post just got overlooked in the back and forth, tbh, and it seems a bit of an overreaction to leave the board because no one engaged with it, yeah? I think at this point people are just tired of saying "yeah... Matt said he'd do more of these gigs on Twitter... let's file that with all the other stuff Matt's said over the last two decades...", you know? And people do respond, and get shot down for being a broken record. It's lose lose. It's hard to get excited for the prospect of something that may or may not materialize (again) and would be terribly limited in scope. Unless you're one of those super fans with tons of money to burn and no job. It's also frustrating that the band just doesn't take the easy answer, and make everyone happy. Even if they eventually do a few more of these "by request" gigs, it leaves out the majority of the places they tour, and even hardcore fans in the areas they do them in due to small ticket allotments. However, they can do a big gig, play 13 boring old hits, and then throw in Showbiz, or Glorious or something, and make it worth the older fans' while. That's what the majority have been asking for forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halo eighteen Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Yeah like czuczu said, this is obviously because it was a very small venue. Do you not remember the 2010 polls? I do remember those polls, and I don't recall the specifics but I'm assuming it was possible for people to vote as often as they wished regardless of if they were even attending the show, completely skewing any kind of results. It also seems like the band willfully ignored most of the rare/surprising songs that did manage to sneak into the top 5 for some shows. Also, it doesn't make sense that Muse routinely play some of their "deeper cuts" or whatever at festivals, where you would think there would be a much greater presence of "casual fans" than at their own headline gigs or whatever. Nothing about this band makes much sense. I'm not expecting them to all of a sudden start letting 15,000 people at arena gigs vote for songs, but surely there's something to be said for the results of some 1,500 fans zeroing in on a list like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 That Russian poll had some surprising songs pop up on it considering it was a clusterfuck of everyone voting dozens of times. BH and Assassin aren't too bad for that sort of thing. What about the fans eligible for the pre-sale (.mu members) get to vote for a song to be included in the setlist? That seems easy enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanp16 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 What about the fans eligible for the pre-sale (.mu members) get to vote for a song to be included in the setlist? That seems easy enough. This is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czuczu Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Elvis Costello did this for a few tours: No setlist, everything off the wheel and spun before every song by random audience member. (Not rigged a la Muse...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I do remember those polls, and I don't recall the specifics but I'm assuming it was possible for people to vote as often as they wished regardless of if they were even attending the show, completely skewing any kind of results. It also seems like the band willfully ignored most of the rare/surprising songs that did manage to sneak into the top 5 for some shows. Also, it doesn't make sense that Muse routinely play some of their "deeper cuts" or whatever at festivals, where you would think there would be a much greater presence of "casual fans" than at their own headline gigs or whatever. Nothing about this band makes much sense. I'm not expecting them to all of a sudden start letting 15,000 people at arena gigs vote for songs, but surely there's something to be said for the results of some 1,500 fans zeroing in on a list like this one. You could only vote once. You could however vote at different gigs, but that doesn't really skew the results in favour of the hits. It's not like people who wanna hear singles only are gonna make sure to vote at every gig of the tour. And yes, whenever a song like Showbiz or Hoodoo (once I think?) made its way into the top5, Muse simply played the other top requests which were most likely KoC, Starlight and Plug In Baby. The only two songs they actually brought in because of the vote were Bliss and CE. Why can't we expect them to let 15,000 people vote for songs? That's exactly what they already did. The thing is that we know what the results will be, because we know what the common denominator is. Hardcore fans will vote for their favourites, which can be any of Muse's 140 songs, while casuals only really choose between 10 songs. I don't think there's much to be said at all about the SBE vote except that there are still fans who wanna hear their deep cuts, which doesn't really say much since it was such a small gig where only those who got tickets within the first minute got any (except for competitions and VIP and such) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offshoreram Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Elvis Costello did this for a few tours: No setlist, everything off the wheel and spun before every song by random audience member. (Not rigged a la Muse...) Some of the finest shows I've been to. The songs on the wheel changed regularly and it wasn't just songs on the wheel. Sometimes it was a theme or word linking several songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunge Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I saw him on that tour too - was fucking great. Got God's Comic . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Muse could never do a setlist wheel like that though tbf, at least not for more than a slot or two. Too much setup required for a lot of their songs. Haha, I lurk on a semi-regular basis - I'm not missing out that much of the hostile environment! I honestly don't find the board hostile at all anymore. Years ago, sure, at times. But there's nothing to really be hostile about nowadays. Pretty nice peeps on here imo, I enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 This board hostile? imagine if you guys were on atease then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corkscrewed Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Reapers was a radio single at rock radio and was still only rotated live. Now it's gone completely during its own album cycle. People in the US are hearing that song on the radio, going to gigs to find it not there, but getting pop hits from a decade ago. I just want to point out that I have never heard Reapers on any L.A. area rock station, so I'm really curious just exactly where "Reapers" was a single. Exactly how widespread could it have really been if it wasn't even played in LA FM radio? And if you look at any random gig from a couple of pages back you can see nearly everyone who went to the 2016 gigs thought they were great. In Europe... America left a lot to desire for a lot of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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