Drones General Tour Discussion Thread

[serpentsatellite]

Could be that they're regretting it, I don't know. I guess they just wanted to try it out. But Matt saying something along the lines of 'the stage makes it really difficult for the moshpit' (which is what I was referring to in my earlier post, but I can't find the interview for that anymore) makes me think their conclusion is something like 'alright, a normal end-stage fits us better'...

 

 

 

When looking at the comment from Matt I just mentioned, I think that concerning the stage they might be on the same boat.

 

 

 

Hm, I feel like the Psycho tour really was "for us", and not just a stunt. In Europe, there was said pre-sale and tickets we're personalised iirc, so touts would have less of a chance. I think that's at least trying to get the tickets in the right hands.

 

Matt admitted the stage was bad for the crowd like literally one gig after the US one ended; again, proving this idea that the crowds were immediately amazing in Europe is simply blind bias. Even the band said it wasn't true.

 

Matt did a 180 on it in the same interview, iirc, and said how lovely the stage was for getting to see people, though. Maybe he just didn't want to come off like he was admitting he fucked himself over.

 

With the Psycho Tour, I guess what I meant is, sure they did a good job preventing scalpers, but with the fan pre-sale happening suddenly and with no announcement, that really prevented fans from getting their hands on those tickets unless they happened to be in the right place at the right time.

But then they did go on to do a regular, general sale, didn't they? And that could easily have been full of people thinking "oh, I hear Muse is awesome!" and not appreciating the kind of setlist they got.

We did see people on social media, in the UK, complaining that they didn't get Starlight, or Madness, or didn't know many of the songs.

I found the whole thing very confusing.

 

I rarely, RARELY buy from scalpers, and I don't agree with the whole practice; preferred when it was illegal, but perversely, it's the hardcore fans paying extortionate prices for the gigs, tbh, and it does sometimes give more access to those fans.

Yes, it creates a feedback loop where the only reason those big fans can't get tickets is due to the scalpers themselves, but at small, exclusive gigs it can be a different story.

I'd have been pretty happy if people were able to tout tickets for the US gigs.

(And honestly if I'd have had the foreknowledge to hold out on 360 tour tickets, and could have picked them up for like $16... )

[serpentsatellite]

Playing for 6k people with this extremely expensive stage is losing money whether you admit it or not. Even in europe they probably still lose money with the 1 night nearly sold out gigs.

 

The crowds were better in each and every one of the gigs in Europe, some of them not so much more, others put the US to shame. Don't make me go graphic

 

You can waste your time, but I watched the same videos you did.

Either of us can easily find ones, from the same gigs, that prove our opposing points.

 

The fact of the matter is the crowd was very active in small pockets, outside of a couple of outlier gigs in specific European places, so it only depends on where the particular filmer was facing. And for particular songs, too. You can find plenty of gigs where the entire crowd went crazy for Psycho, and then all stood stock still during song #2.

 

Bellamy himself said the stage killed the crowd energy, while in Europe, so that's pretty conclusive.

 

Anyways, US crowds behave differently (although it's creeping into European countries for sure,) and that's been true since like the early '00s. A lot of venues in a lot of places (Canada seemingly is going through this now,) really cracked down on "moshing" and being overly energetic at gigs, even, and over time things changed.

 

I mean, the biggest thing that changed is no one's going to Muse expecting it's a rock concert worth moshing to, in the first place... But I digress...

 

If they can't deal with the cultural differences, and they're just going to be pissed off and lose money, maybe they shouldn't come here?

Or do reasonable sized venues, like rock bands that outsell and outchart them do.

 

btw, the 6k gigs in the US were the ones in between the "big guns" like LA, which sold out and got a second show, and Philly, which was damn near sold out.

They did those lower selling shows only because they were on the driving path from one profitable city to the next, and maybe they made a little less cash, but they were literally driving through them.

Philly was actually surprisingly challenging to get good tickets to, which I didn't expect.

It's too bad they got such a shit gig, because it sold very well.

 

I'm curious where you think the band is getting all the money from, if not from touring?

They don't make anything off album sales, and they're declining sharply in many of the major markets, anyways.

The point of spending more money on the big stage is also so they can do less shows, whereas some comparable bands doing small shows tend to tour the same areas relentlessly during one album cycle.

[Mc Queen]

Regardless of crowds, setlists, money, whatever: the band do what the band do.

 

They decide the setup, what they play, how they play it, whether they rehearse or not. It's their career, and their attitude and as far as they each personally can, they choose it or let themselves be influenced by circumstances/others/... . I think it's a bit ott to call their integrity off because they didn't fulfill one or several board member's dreams. The board is not the world, not even the Muse world.

 

I'm sure that most of the time, they are, just like most of us in our lives, trying to do the right things at the right time, obviously failing every now and again as we all do, getting back up and carrying on.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't take CONSTRUCTIVE criticism (which is given to them, not posted on here where they won't read it anyway ) , but I don't think their agenda is/was to play bland shows to the uS for instance, I think it's something like they're trying to do a good job (you may ask: for whom? The majority of the crowd, probably), get a mediocre response, and feel disheartened. Maybe they could up their professionalism and still try to do the best every night and pull people along, but I also accept that can be pretty hard if nobody's (in relation to crowd size!) reacting. Maybe they did the best they could in that respect and that was it, maybe they didn't, who knows.

Of course it would be nice if they admitted mistakes too, where they made them...but we can't force it. If they realise it for themselves, it's good enough, because it should lead to a better outcome next time.

 

Then, it's up to each and every one of the fans to decide whether they like what's on offer and enjoy it, or not.

Of course going somewhere after something is announced and not getting pretty exactly that is disappointing, but as soon as information was out there that's kinda off because you have time to prepare. And still, regardless, you choose your own reaction.

Like some decided to skip the tour because they didn't like what they'd heard about it so far - that's a decision fans made with their own integrity.

 

Btw, I want old songs too. I want rarities, I want my favourites, I want to see energy and fun stuff going on and enjoy myself. I want long sets with many good songs, as we probably all do. But when I'm at the gig, I know I cannot influence it, so I'll relax and enjoy the gig as I get it. That's in my control.

 

If I'm really miffed about something afterwards (like the short but expensive Loreley gig a few years back) I will try to first figure out what went wrong - that was not the band's fault, coincidentally - and try to ensure criticism gets where it needs to to improve the future.

I know doing this on the ongoing tour is not as easy as on that one gig or maybe impossible, but thinking about it from really different perspectives as opposed to sitting in your own hole and not even trying would be a good start.

 

 

Anyway. I had my drones gig, and I loved it. Despite not getting all the songs I wanted (fat luck when your list is about 50 songs long which I prepared for, not getting them all...) and a few other obstacles, it was a great gig and I enjoyed it thoroughly. :happy:

 

 

tl;dr this topic is a gigantic negative spiral.

Muse are not perfect and they never will be. I enjoyed my gig. I want more songs and rarities but I'd have to get a message through to the band if I wanted that heard.

[White Heat]

They make money from the 90k people in London/Brussels/Amsterdam/Paris/Milan etc... doubt they profit much if not anything from the 1 night gigs.

 

I recall reading in this forum that T2L stage costed half a milion per gig or something like that, this one must be a lot more expensive.

[Gemsy]

/quotefail?

 

You're right and the spiral of negativity has been going on here in some threads for over 10 years... which shows how passionate we still are IMO You're right that their career is not up to us and most people have accepted that changes happen and still love the band for who they are NOW, not just for nostalgia...myself included... but...

That's decision I made this time, I decided not to go. I actually cried over that decision a few times because I still would rather be at a muse show than not, but I was priced out. If can get to a show for around £100 it's just about doable but when the ticket alone is nearly that much - that's a 'special night out' and thus ruined it for those of us who attend gigs as a lifestyle... pay for a big fancy stage, you only get the people who can afford to pay the extra for it... complain about the crowd being lacklustre... that's a spiral of negativity in itself haha

Edited June 9, 2016 by Gemsy

[serpentsatellite]

A half a million sounds really steep for what is essentially just labor.

 

And people keep going back to it being about songs; it's really not.

The only reason the US setlists are as big of an issue as they are, is the fact that it was disrespectful to play shorter, worse setlists only in one country.

(For a band that apparently is doing this for the fans, and not making any money.)

 

If they'd have played a set with Map, Bliss, SS, and TaB like Europe gets, but it had the energy of Philly, it still would have been a disappointing gig for that reason.

It's simply easier to manage to overlook if you get really excited about seeing your favorite song, but it's still a downer.

I guess it's very important for me to believe a band is enjoying what they do or at least putting some effort into it.

 

The US, at least, really didn't have the opportunity to make that informed decision. By the time we saw what the gigs would be, we'd already paid $75 or so for tickets, and for some airfare and travel.

I really wanted to "vote with my feet" and not go, but it would only have hurt me, since everything was paid for, sadly.

Edited June 8, 2016 by SerpentSatellite

[serpentsatellite]

Anyways, "lackluster" crowd is, and always will be, insulting, uninformed, and biased.

 

It's not like the US turned their back on Muse (although fairly they do INTENTIONALLY attract people there just to see the stage show,) US crowds have settled down. But this happened like a decade ago. It's not a surprise.

We sing along, and smile, and enjoy ourselves, but we also actually face forward and WATCH the gig, and you don't go home with two black eyes, or a broken nose anymore. It's really quite lovely.

When people from other countries bitch about how there's no moshpit, and everyone's not jumping up and down, that seems really old fashioned, or even immature to us. We wonder how you guys enjoy a gig with that much distraction.

 

Here, look at it this way:

 

Three different gigs, same band. Different venue sizes. Opening song, middle of the gig, biggest single.

 

 

 

 

(I'm using this band because I was at that last gig. Deal with it.)

 

The band was excessively grateful and appreciative of the audience, played a decently long set, which was mostly singles and new stuff, and instead of 20 minutes of playback, there was 20 minutes of interaction with the crowd, and hilarious stories. I think my boyfriend secretly peed his pants.

 

This isn't "lackluster" or a poor crowd... it's a cultural difference, and it's how we show our appreciation and enjoyment of a gig, a lot of the time. By actually paying attention, singing along, cheering, and allowing those around us to also have a pleasant experience.

Like I said, it's pretty great.

 

But band's should understand that by now, because it's not new, at all, and if they can't accept it... That's their problem, and one they shouldn't try and make the audience's.

Edited June 8, 2016 by SerpentSatellite

[serpentsatellite]

I'll never think back on my Drones Tour experience overly positively, but I think I'm having another negative rant because the full impact of the sacrifices I made to get out there just hit me, and I had a bit of a sobbing mess melt down over it a few days ago. Whether it's $75 for a ticket, or $1600+ because of travel, people make sacrifices to go to these gigs. It's not a negligible amount of money for a lot of people. Maybe it's just not being able to eat out a couple of times, or buy a video game on release day... but maybe it's only being able to see one gig this year, or giving up something that had a lot of value to you.

 

Maybe sometimes big bands forget things like that, because the idea that this is a considerable expense is so far beyond them.

People have already shown respect and appreciation for a band in advance by shelling out that hefty ticket price, and maybe even travelling.

 

People certainly deserve more for their money than a gig you're too tired or angry to put energy and effort into.

I certainly do admit Philly could have been as lousy as it was because the band was tired and worn out, but I don't think that's a good excuse, either. (Mostly because Bellamy was up drinking all night and morning of the gig...)

[Gemsy]

Also lol @ how i only come in here when I'm in a 'Muse are the Best ' phase and I end up just slating them hahaha

[serpentsatellite]

I like to think it's more balanced that I can say I love the music, but I think the band themselves has lost it a bit, and it shows in the tours.

 

I'm not negative about all the aspects, but I don't have to be a sycophant in order to be a fan of the music.

 

It was the opposite for me during TR, where I hated the direction the album went, but still thought the tour was good, and even during T2L, I thought the tour was more dynamic than the album.

[Mc Queen]

You're right and the spiral of negativity has been going on here in some threads for over 10 years... which shows how passionate we still are IMO You're right that their career is not up to us and most people have accepted that changes happen and still love the band for who they are NOW, not just for nostalgia...myself included... but...

That's decision I made this time, I decided not to go. I actually cried over that decision a few times because I still would rather be at a muse show than not, but I was priced out. If can get to a show for around £100 it's just about doable but when the ticket alone is nearly that much - that's a 'special night out' and thus ruined it for those of us who attend gigs as a lifestyle... pay for a big fancy stage, you only get the people who can afford to pay the extra for it... complain about the crowd being lacklustre... that's a spiral of negativity in itself haha

Well, being passionate is a good thing, as long as it's led into good channels (aka not bashing others/oneself and such rubbish) !

 

I actually was thinking of you when I wrote that because I remembered you hadn't gone. Whilst your choice had sadder causes than just "voting with your feet/money", it's still the choice you made. I agree that ticket prices are becoming horrendous, I have thankfully forgotten what I paid for my gig, it was one of the most expensive ones but I wanted that city rather than others that would have been cheaper.

 

I don't think there needs to be a causation of higher ticket prices and more boring crowds, at least I can't think of a good reason for it ad hoc.

It may be connected to general problems of most people with their attention spans - how easy is it to focus on a ~2 hour gig when you're used to checking your phone every few minutes? Not saying that's true for everyone, but for a lot.

I grabbed my phone to take a few pictures and one little video, and then forgot about it and jumped. In the seats Memorable energy experiences, even though the audience where I was was rather more comfortable than mad like me

 

(both posts)

I don't think it's just about songs, and if that impression came up, I guess you now know it wasn't intended.

 

Talking about crowd energy: You (as we all) have no opportunity to know how they see it. You see their reaction, which is influenced by crowd reaction(s).

 

Fact is: there is some reason you concluded your country getting worse sets than the rest of the world so far. I don't know everything by heart, but if you got a song or two less, that would be justified.

Your crowds appear to be a lot less enjoyable for the band, and you can go on about how you still enjoy the gig and cultural differences and whatever - what matters is what the band sees, hears and feels at the gig in the moment they're playing it. If they feel energy, it creates a good vibe. If they have the impression that all the stuff they do kind of dies into the crowd and there is nothing coming back, they can't feed on it, basically, and of course it's hard to keep giving when the reason you give a gig is to share a great time with your fans.

 

Of course not going to the gig was a very short-term decision for you, but still, you chose your own reaction. You could have gone and said 'Damn, we only get shorter gigs, my favourite song hasn't appeared yet, shite. Still, I'm going to go and enjoy my gig.'. You could have tried to take action previously. You could have done it afterwards. Just complaining here is no action that would change anything. You could have chosen to hurt them as well as yourself, had it been so important to you to show you disapprove. I'm not saying which choice is good, just that it's yours.

 

I don't mosh at gigs either, but I come out of them thoroughly drenched in my own sweat because I dance and jump and enjoy myself, and I'm sure it has been seen and felt by the band too. Also my enjoying myself can make those around me join in if they want to, which creates a bigger dynamic pocket, which can influence enough of the audience to really be seen. I don't need them to look at me personally, but a rock gig just isn't about sitting like a statue and just watching, it's about a flow back and forth and a lot of energy.

Even with jumping, I watch the stage, and the only times I ever miss something that happens on stage is when someone passes me/shoves me or I have to take a moment to secure something or help someone or the likes. I jump and watch the stage. Easy-peasy. It makes me smile to write this because I can think of so many times I've jumped my feet into burning at Muse gigs :happy:

 

If you don't like jumping/dancing/moshing, you don't have to do it. But you can't expect people from other cultural areas to like your choice, or even to understand it. Of course it would be nice if everyone understood each other and Muse adapted to your different kind of audience, but maybe they don't get it. Maybe they hate it. Maybe they've tried and can't. Maybe they don't want to. Who knows.

 

As for band energy, yes, it's different to what it used to be, but I'd be alarmed if it wasn't, since people change. At my gig they were happy, talking (barely understandably, as usual, at least Matt), energetic, playing well, smiling, having fun. And we paid back.

I don't want to hear the money argument on that tbh - if I go to a gig, I want to enjoy the gig, but as soon as I see the band is doing something, it's a synergetic thing rather than a one-way street. Otherwise the cd would do...

 

 

Maybe a sports analogy will do it - if you're in a big crowd watching a game (which you also paid for!) the best way to help your team is to chant, chant, CHANT.

If the game is shit and you as part of the audience are not even trying to support your team you have less justification in complaining of their lacklustre performance later. In football it's even worse with the money imo, the incredible wages those guys get.

[Gemsy]

Higher ticket prices = more casual fans as people aren't gonna buy a ticket to the local grimey rock venue for Christmas, but a shiny Muse gig is the perfect gift for someone who has a vague interest in guitars but has everything ... this is my theory haha. That and corporate entertainment. Live music is a Nice Thing to do now, somewhere you can tag yourself on facebook and take your kids. like a theatre trip. The passion is watered down. And my friend said in 2006 - Muse's shows are staged musicals now, not rock gigs.

[Gemsy]

And now they are musicals that have lazy actors

I'm gonna come back later and write a positive comment on every song thread

[serpentsatellite]

Fact is: there is some reason you concluded your country getting worse sets than the rest of the world so far. I don't know everything by heart, but if you got a song or two less, that would be justified.

Your crowds appear to be a lot less enjoyable for the band, and you can go on about how you still enjoy the gig and cultural differences and whatever - what matters is what the band sees, hears and feels at the gig in the moment they're playing it. If they feel energy, it creates a good vibe. If they have the impression that all the stuff they do kind of dies into the crowd and there is nothing coming back, they can't feed on it, basically, and of course it's hard to keep giving when the reason you give a gig is to share a great time with your fans.

 

First off, yes, we got shorter gigs. As we have historically.

The Drones ones were only a song or two shorter, interestingly, but even back to TR arenas, some of them were 3-4 songs shorter, or more, which was a pretty shit thing to do.

 

Also, I disagree with what you've said here. Drastically.

 

Since the crowds don't act the way they do in the US JUST for Muse, but it's a cultural thing (disregarding for a moment that the crowd energy in London wasn't that much better, and people here in attendance noted it as well,) "what the band sees" doesn't matter.

I don't go to my job and give people different service based on how I view them, and I don't think a band should, either.

Especially when the crowd isn't being disrespectful and is in fact enjoying themselves, singing, cheering etc. It's just that they're not behaving in the narrow manner that the band wants? I mean, that's a bit bullshit, isn't it? You didn't clap in exactly the way I wanted, so you're getting a worse gig? Unprofessional, at best.

 

The fact of the matter is I've seen loads of bands play to a crowd with the same type of energy level, and give their all on stage. Muse is the only one that I've honestly seen bothered by it, visibly. You're implying every band who plays the US ever would be justified to give a lackluster performance, and the truth of the matter is they don't.

I don't really see it as a two way street, because it's not free for us to go there. Like it or not, it's a business transaction.

My setlist, for example, for Denver was really lackluster, and I travelled a long way to be there. And I really did enjoy myself, because despite the song list, the band really did put on a good show.

 

If Muse doesn't enjoy playing here, and they let that be visible at their gigs... it's on them to fix that problem. Fake it, don't play here, play smaller gigs, actually promote yourselves to the crowd that they want... It's not on us to just "have a better mindset" about it.

I want to go to a concert to be entertained, not to force myself to believe I'm being entertained. If I was going in expecting the latter I could just stay home and watch old Family Guy reruns on TV all night.

 

A band should really electrify their crowd; they should put in the effort to GET people into the gig. THEIR effort and passion should elicit passion and energy in us... not the other way around.

And that's how I see most gigs I go to go down; with the band gaining the energy of the crowd through a great performance, and acting like they're having a blast.

[serpentsatellite]

And now they are musicals that have lazy actors

I'm gonna come back later and write a positive comment on every song thread

 

I find it interesting (and hypocritical) that people defend the shit out of the tour, want to point fingers at the US crowds, "elitist" fans, etc...

 

... but largely those same people - even the sycophants - have no problem saying negative things about the music.

 

That's always confused me, as I perceive the albums to be more personal, and being overtly negative about them (like, to the extent of saying Revolt is a piece of shit, embarrassing, put out as a joke, etc) can cross an uncomfortable line.

I mean, I believe the band puts out these songs because they think they're good... and Matt's said that some of the songs can be intensely personal in nature, still. You can see he doesn't always like to talk about it.

NSC is a good example; that's a pretty personal fucking song right there, and while once it was released the moment had passed for sure, like really banging on about it being shitty and cheesy and stuff... I dunno.

Same with Follow Me. It's one thing to say something critical like "the electronics didn't work for me" "I thought it was a bit bland" "the vocals were too polished" - but going off on how it's the worst piece of shit Muse has ever shat out, and is a vomit inducing cheese fest... that song's about a man's son nearly dying...

 

I dunno. It's weird to me.

 

I said some pretty savage things about Survival in my time, and I've always felt bad about it. Especially seeing in a few interviews that Matt took the hate and parody of it a bit personally.

I still have a very strong negative opinion of it, but I've felt I should have tried to communicate that without resorting to over the top insults of someone's art.

I don't feel concerts are the same thing, in the end. And it really doesn't appear the band does, either.

 

And there's always been this skewed view at this board in particular, it seems, because people are so unwilling to talk about the songs for whatever reason, unless it's negative.

I'd have loved to have gotten involved with more discussions about the songs, or Drones in general, but it felt like once everyone sorted the songs out into "sucks" "doesn't suck as much" and "pretty good" - that was the end of that. Any talk about songs quickly becomes "this is shit/recurring joke about Guiding Light," and attempts to discuss the songs more in depth are completely ignored. Or you're told "you're over thinking it," or something.

Edited June 8, 2016 by SerpentSatellite

[Rustyy]

That last point is so true. There's no such thing as shit music.

 

I hate that sorting into categories on here

[topo_musero]

Tbh, the stage has made the crowds feel a bit shitty in all the gigs, European and American alike. I don't know since I wasn't there, so I'm just speculating based on videos, which I admit is not a good measure. Still, I want them to make less crowded, intimate shows without so much production. And rotate songs like crazy. They have 7 albums, it's about time.

Edited June 8, 2016 by topo_musero

[Gemsy]

Yeah gave up talking about the music in here when everybody was insisting on ranking it. Like, don't care what songs you think are better. Argh I wish I had my laptop so i could type properly !!

Yeah the music is dear to me. Even if my first reaction on hearing a song is to laugh out loud!

[serpentsatellite]

I've wondered about the shift in crowds in the US, because it seemed like a pretty quick shift. In 2004 I left a gig with two black eyes, and a split open lip that bled all over my clothes; my boyfriend bailed out of the crowd and left me behind, and still to this day gasps "what the fuck was WRONG at that show?!?" and not two years later, seeing the same band, everyone was super calm and respectful. We were hugging the back wall when we got in because my big rugged boyfriend was having flashbacks, and we were able to walk more than halfway up the crowd during the show.

 

I thought maybe "rock is dead" here (it is) (Muse isn't a rock band) but this was the same band and the same band's fans... That can't be all it is.

 

I thought maybe "distraction; people need to put away their fucking cell phones" but that's not it either - the last two gigs I was at had nearly NO cell phone usage. I was actually surprised. And a bit disappointed there's literally no YT videos of them.

I think maybe Muse might invite a higher percentage of on the phones people because they sell themselves on spectacle, and it's way cooler to send 50 selfies of yourself with a weather balloon in the background, and it's better bragging rights.

And phone aren't a US exclusive at all.

 

Have we really become a repressed, self conscious nation, maybe? Are we super concerned about looking "normal" in public, even at a younger age?

(This would explain Trump's popularity... except instead of repressed energy, bigotry and racism...)

I mean, I know that's MY problem (bad upbringing - also I know what I look like when I get into gigs - can't post it, but slap "Matt Bellamy Coachella" into YouTube. If you see 3D glasses, and you're laughing in a horrified manner, you got the right one) but is this a fallout of our shaming people into "normalcy?"

I do find it interesting, and at the same time I appreciate not being bludgeoned to death at a concert I don't think the crowd is doing it out of respect for each other. Although the people at the MN Muse gig were amazingly nice and I even got a few "you seem more into this - want to go in front of us?" moments.

[serpentsatellite]

Yeah gave up talking about the music in here when everybody was insisting on ranking it. Like, don't care what songs you think are better. Argh I wish I had my laptop so i could type properly !!

Yeah the music is dear to me. Even if my first reaction on hearing a song is to laugh out loud!

 

I don't get people's fascination with lists over actual discussion. Short attention spans, maybe.

I'm from an old school generation where we'd talk about things.

 

I've been saying since I joined that it's pissy that no one actually talks about the MUSIC on a band's forum.

If someone wants to jump into those threads and have a conversation about it, I'll join in (positively!) every time. It just never happens, or it's short lived at best.

 

The "you're overthinking it" (regarding stuff like song meanings, concepts, whatever) infuriates me. And that it's said as a character judgement or an insult.

I think everyone UNDERthinks things, and that's part of what's going wrong with the world when we insult people for thinking, even if the connections or conclusions they come to are wrong, or for being creative.

But no, shut up, post your list. (and you're wrong! )

[kueller]

QOTSA and NIN concerts I've been to have energy and there's a good amount of people that clearly know every song, especially in the latter's concerts. Muse at some point had something similar, but did very little to keep it. That's not my fault, nor my responsibility to change it.

 

I hate setlist "quality" obsessions but you have to admit for a band who pulled off Download, something like Starlight>Feeling Good>Madness>UD>Revolt is very dull in comparison.

[serpentsatellite]

@ Bixer, I think that that's all very subjective, and you're projecting your personal opinion on "most" Muse fans.

Using the Radiohead example, I personally feel they've made a career off of pretentiousness, and people being too afraid to be critical of them because then they'll be perceived as "not getting it" or being "plebs" or some dumb shit has exacerbated it.

Do I shove that down everyone's throat as fact? No. Do I look down on people who genuinely like the band's music, or lump them all in the same category? No. But personally their music doesn't do a single thing for me, and a "carefully crafted" song doesn't mean anything to me if it doesn't make me FEEL something. I think Must is the more "honest" band in that respect, and missteps and all, is why I vastly prefer their music and am not ashamed to be judged because of it.

Because, you know, we all like different things, and it's not a competition about who gets to be right by being the most persistent bastard.

 

People to this day argue about what PiB is about, and even in very obvious songs like on Drones, there's still a deceptive amount of stuff people talk about, and disagree about.

I could go on for pages (and have in other types of media.)

 

And so, if you don't listen for the lyrics, that stops people from talking about other things they like or don't about the songs? They're more than just lyrics.

People still discuss how ancient classical pieces make them feel, the imagery and emotion that they elicit, etc.

 

It's fine if people classify a song as like/don't like, but I'd hoped more people on band's media would find deeper connections to talk about. Not everyone, but you know maybe a few. Since this was not to be, there typically wasn't much positive or thoughtful to talk about.

I don't remember music being that shallow to people in my heyday, and when forums were big, it would be a constant clusterfuck of people discussing all aspects of songs and albums, and even imagery the band used, to death. It was a lot of fun.

 

And I never ever said people aren't allowed to dislike someone's art. Quite the contrary.

Just that saying that something objectively "sucks," as people are wont to do here and shut down all conversation (which used to be very prevalent) is all around disrespectful.

You can even by highly critical of something without intentionally taking a shit on someone's creation.

You use the example of "I just don't like it" - so did I, and more, in my post. It's the more common example of people saying things are objectively shit, or doing so in a very insulting fashion, that I have an issue with, and if you can't see the difference, I'm not likely to be able to fix that.

Edited June 8, 2016 by SerpentSatellite

[Hopix]

That last point is so true. There's no such thing as shit music.

 

I hate that sorting into categories on here

 

True, but it's still okay to judge a piece of art.

[Rustyy]

True, but it's still okay to judge a piece of art.

 

Very true

[serpentsatellite]

QOTSA and NIN concerts I've been to have energy and there's a good amount of people that clearly know every song, especially in the latter's concerts. Muse at some point had something similar, but did very little to keep it. That's not my fault, nor my responsibility to change it.

 

I hate setlist "quality" obsessions but you have to admit for a band who pulled off Download, something like Starlight>Feeling Good>Madness>UD>Revolt is very dull in comparison.

 

Boyfriend took me to Blaqk Audio last month, and I was really worried I was going to be crazy out of place at some rave-type show, and not familiar with the music, but it was actually fans of AFI mostly that carried over to the side project, even though it was very different.

 

That band has really developed a strong, but rather small, following. There were only about 300-400 people there (the main band pulls a little more, but not terribly much nowdays,) but the band/singer really put on an amazingly dynamic and engaging performance. Blew me away, a little. Doesn't matter what you might think of the band/s, Havok is one hell of a showman.

Also, worth noting, little to no verbal interaction from him with the crowd, but he really performed TO that crowd, and it was way more than enough.

As did the two opening acts, in fact (Charming Liars, Night Riot.) So much energy, and smiling and showmanship. Never heard of either of them, but I really got into their sets.

 

Was a very good example of my going into something that I thought was going to be a long night, and the bands made it into something truly impressive. (and there were deep fried hot dogs!)