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And Black Holes. It's pretty great; those 3 are *possibly* their 3 best... And Black Holes is amazing

 

Oh, definitely. It does get a little more poppy than Showbiz, OOS or Absolution, but it is one of the more balanced of their later albums, with every track seeming to make sense on the album.

 

I've actually heard some fans say that Muse went downhill after Showbiz, which... no, I love Showbiz and even I think it's probably their worst album. :LOL:

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That's rather showing to be toxically snobbish than not having any taste per se.

Italian blogs, forums, FB groups or pages and more are full of that kind of people dissing them without mercy.

 

So wait, they diss people who prefer Absolution over OOS? Or the opposite?

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I don't find it that interesting to analyse music because it usually just ends up either being a bunch of people doing monologues, people saying "I like this" "Well I like that", or simply people being elitists about what other people should and shouldn't like. I rarely come across interesting music discussions that aren't based around people trying to imply that they know better than others. You can easily spot these people through their vocabulary. "Real", "True", "Deep", or talking about what you need in order to appreciate the music. Usually intellect and expertise.

 

This is why I either don't bother, or just spend my time arguing with people who think that they can objectively view art, and try to pass off their opinions as more valuable than others'.

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So wait, they diss people who prefer Absolution over OOS? Or the opposite?

 

I mean they diss Muse, generally speaking, and reckon they're the ultimate disgrace in mainstream music, or shameless sellouts after churning out albums like Origin, Abso and BHAR.

Ah, yeah, and sometimes even define people who listen to them stupid, or with no taste at all.

 

:D

 

(I'm grinning just not to cry).

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Oh, definitely. It does get a little more poppy than Showbiz, OOS or Absolution, but it is one of the more balanced of their later albums, with every track seeming to make sense on the album.

 

I've actually heard some fans say that Muse went downhill after Showbiz, which... no, I love Showbiz and even I think it's probably their worst album. :LOL:

 

I really am not keen on showbiz tbh, bar 5 songs

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I really am not keen on showbiz tbh, bar 5 songs

 

I don't listen to it back-to-back really often, I must confess. The reason being that perhaps it has never really clicked with me on a deep level of connection, excluding the singles, Showbiz and Fillip.

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I've actually heard some fans say that Muse went downhill after Showbiz, which... no, I love Showbiz and even I think it's probably their worst album. :LOL:

Sounds like someone who also think Radiohead went a bit too far on OK Computer, and that the rest is unlistenable crap.

 

Oh wait, that sounds like Matt.

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Yes. Your long post is very fair.

It's fucking insane the negative vibe on here. It's a whinge-fest breeding on itself. It drives people away.

People who might be interested to chat about a band they like.

 

The discussions are fair right now. Whining is annoying but discussion is not required to be positive.

 

I love the big production Muse brings each tour tbh. Small gigs are good but i hope they don't stop coming up with these insane stages :rolleyes:

 

As do I really. I also think they've shown they can have big productions and still deliver in performance. No need for them to be exclusive.

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This place is pretty positive about the later albums. Those that quit mostly head to Banter. Not like Muselive where they all stuck around in the main discussion.

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Hmm. The big stuff wouldn't impress you then, if you focus on the 'personal relationship' theme of the songs. The staging would be pretty irrelevant to that.

But it seems clear to me that the album is intended to be a concept album, and it repeatedly references the world stage and war. Bellamy is a thinker, well read, intelligent and curious. He's intense and has a political viewpoint. I don't think that he's insincere about it either.

 

The production was ambitious and absolutely stunning.

 

I certainly don't think it's insincere. I just think he passed up an opportunity to use the visuals to really add to the story of Drones and do something truly special, got my hopes up by saying that's just what he was going to go... And then not doing it at all. :(

 

Just the big production doesn't excite me, so it's a downer when its prioritized over the performance. Would have been a different matter if it enhanced the performance more than "woo! Huge balloons!"

Which I think is a fair critique, since Matt put it in my head in the first place. :chuckle:

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Lyrics was too specific. But people, even me, have seen those that are cometely out of it except for Madness. This was NOT the case years ago. This is not US crowds, this is US Muse crowds and it has not been forever.

 

There's also more than just being disappointed in a gig. I've loved most of the gigs I went to. But the past THREE tours have had very distinct drops in quality in the US. I'm more than happy to give them the benefit of the doubt, and still am as far as their motives are, but the favoritism is undeniable now. That hurts more than just a bad setlist. It's something deeper.

 

Also people tried to communicate in the Q&A but that was denied apparently.

I'm not sure I fully get you. Serpent says US crowds are generally "quieter" in her opinion, and do I understand you right that you are saying it is not US crowds in general that are quieter, but only those for Muse?

 

If there is favoritism without any good reason, it shouldn't be. All my posts were trying to figure out if there are any good reasons or at least explanations, and balance, and get out of the spiral.

 

I'm not going to get long winded, but the constant assertion that that US crowds are a bunch of "soggy, scowling" bastards is uninformed, biased, and insulting.

Were you there?

There IS energy in the crowd. There's smiling and cheering and everyone singing so loud it's hard to hear the band.

I'm happy to admit I don't know the American crowds from experience so I cannot judge first-hand from them, I'm just juggling ideas and trying to see things in a balanced way.

And also - to get this shitty spiral of negativity stopped in here. Though I won't try for too long, since I don't approve of wasting my energy either. :p

You made it sound like everyone was sitting there and just at max smiling and clapping twice after a song. What you wrote there sounds better.

Still, a jumping and dancing crowd is nicer - IMO. And if you've ever been on a stage yourself, you'll know that you will hardly ever see a smile on a face in the crowd, the light is on you and not the crowd, and even if a spot shines into the audience it's hard to discern much if there's still light in your own face. Movement is seen more easily.

 

On the other things, I don't see any point in trying to discuss any further, I'll agree to disagree with you there.

 

I wanted to applaud to this post as well! :D

 

I wanted to stop reading after it cause you are so right with your post, but couldn't resist so I read everything lol

 

Nothing more to add.

Yes. Your long post is very fair.

It's fucking insane the negative vibe on here. It's a whinge-fest breeding on itself. It drives people away.

People who might be interested to chat about a band they like.

Thanks! :happy: It did take some courage to jump in and try to stop the negativity!

 

I love the big production Muse brings each tour tbh. Small gigs are good but i hope they don't stop coming up with these insane stages :rolleyes:

I second this. I love the stupidly bombastic stage designs they bring each tour.

Me too. I love shows of each size and each production, and I love these ott silly lovely bombastic things Muse always come up with. :happy:

Edited by Mc Queen

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I'm not sure I fully get you. Serpent says US crowds are generally "quieter" in her opinion, and do I understand you right that you are saying it is not US crowds in general that are quieter, but only those for Muse?

 

Because not all Americans go to the same concerts. Shows in general have gotten softer. Bands I saw long ago have weaker crowds today. That doesn't mean I don't leave from some concerts sweat drenched and beat.

 

When I saw Muse in 2010 people were pushing, jumping, and the usual. Not as much as Europe, but still enough to what you'd expect. I was shoved around the floor quite a bit. New Born and MK Ultra got the biggest reactions. The queue was basically all the black dressed alternative kids who probably liked nu-metal at some point in their lives. This was before Madness, Uprising was still rising in popularity, and all they really had was Twilight.

 

2015 there were small patches of jumping people, and that was it. The barrier was dead. I left the concert completely energized because I spent almost none of it on the floor. That's not a small difference. Their audience really has changed but I'm making the point that it's not an inevitable result of any band that wants to come to the United States.

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Not to mention that Muse don't cater to the rock crowds, so this is becoming very much a crowd with parents and kids and soccer moms. Again a choice Muse made.

 

I don't go to, like, metal concerts or anything, so I'm speaking of gigs of the most comparable bands I can think of; Breaking Benjamin, AFI, Bush, Nothing But Theives. Obviously smaller gigs (and more rock...) but still really soft crowds.

A more sedate crowd at AFI came off way more weird to me than one at Muse.

And very telling that we don't really have rock bands that command arena attendance.

 

And I didn't mean that because Drones' concept was basic it was insincere, just that it should have been easy to make a concept out of the gigs.

On the contrary, basic themes about love, loss, etc are personal and relatable to everyone. That's why people use them.

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#lookatmeimthedrummerfrommuseandihavemyowninstagramaccount :chuckle:

 

He does look fucking knackered in that photo, mind. Not that I can talk given I remember sweating myself out when playing, and never that regularly.

South Park continues to impress me, and I think they've gotten on with more relevant topics in the last seasons.

Sad I mostly miss it when it's on.

That episode with all the girls photoshopping their pictures had me in tears at the end.

 

I do enjoy some Family Guy, but I hate admitting it. I can't really convince myself that it's the same sort of guilty, satire humor as SP, and often feels like it's making cheap jokes off of bigotry and rape culture, without even the attempt at making a point, and I feel bad about myself.

 

The big stuff at Muse gigs never impressed me, and I guess I never really thought about why.

Maybe for me it just rarely really felt organic to the music or the performance, and that makes it easier for me to see it as a gimmick to draw in those tourists. They had a good opportunity to use the stage show in this one to actually tell a story and make a cohesive thing out of it - Matt said he was going to do just that! - and they squandered it for some reason.

They even could easily have done it by playing the Drones songs in order, and slapping in the hits where they thematically fit. I mean, it's a pretty basic theme of "in relationship, relationship goes bad, guy gets disillusioned and becomes a bastard, guy starts believing in himself, guy falls in love." You can wedge 99% of all songs ever made into that, somewhere.

 

TR didn't seem to have any real theme to it, either. I suppose T2L arena didn't either, but at least it was impressive and of all of them felt the best melded with the performance.

The pillars and the 360 both felt like all they contributed was taking the band away from the crowd.

 

As for right now, they're only rotating like 2 or 3 setlist templates, so unless the drone suffocates someone, there's really not much to follow. :LOL:

Yeah SP's last season was really well put together. I also like their Book of Mormon musical, which I caught in 2013. I thought it was great. In its first few post-revival years, Family Guy was funny, but its not making a serious point like South Park tries too. Now, its just going "Offensive stuff. Lol." Same with MacFarlane's movies too.

 

I like the big stuff but then I do have that kid going "Ooooo shiny shit!" in me a bit too often. :chuckle: The Resistance tours together I think referenced 1984 and the 4 Ministries (especially the giant pyramid, as that's where Winston Smith drones away). I'd say the 2nd Law stadium tour did have a theme of both condemning stadium gigs as energy burning wastes of money and celebrating them as such. But that's if I want to do a proper art crticity over-interpretation of it. And indeed, I do.

 

With this, I think there was the idea of themes and an over-arching style in the way it went together, but if it was gonna be like a Wall tour, it needed to have a proper narrative and this is really a bit of stuff being thrown at your eyeballs, with the exception of the visuals in The Globalist. I was hoping for that tbh.

 

I never felt distant from the band though, or at least no more distant than I do at any other stadium/arena gig. Indeed, there were bits when I was closer to the band or even individual members than at any point in my other Muse big gigs. But it had both moments of being both up close and really far away, and that's even accounting for when I went walkies during it.

Okay, seriously, who is tagging this thread? Because this tag:

horrible since origins

Yeah, whoever added that tag can go piss off mate. First of all, Absolution is a damn great album and some would even argue it's better than OOS. And secondly, whoever added that must not be a big fan of OOS, because then he/she would've known that the album's title is Origin of Symmetry, not Origins of Symmtry.

 

Just a little rant, carry on.

Pretty sure its a joke.

 

On another unrelated note, does MuseLive actually still have people there? I was never into it but I'm aware it used to be quite buzzing and now I gather its dead space.

Edited by forevermusic

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High production costs (high ticket prices) were balanced out for me by the quality of the production and the fantastic view I had even from the top tier of the O2 in London.

 

Doesn't fully make up for the lesser atmosphere of being up there and the sub-optimal setlists but for me it wasn't all doom and gloom.

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I stopped visiting Muselive when it started taking an hour to load and they got rid of the downloads. I imagine everyone else did, too.

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Can people please stop with the tl;dgas posts?

 

:LOL: this post was going to say 'omg yay so many words', I'm just happy to see a bit of buzz going on ... but yeah

I know for a fact the negativity here has driven people away.

I have so many muser friends on Facebook who feel they can't come here. But that's what keeps it negatiiiiiive ffs we need some fangirling back in here :LOL: AND THEN people are negative about that

My last few years of moderating this place was spent trying to make people feel welcome and get along :LOL: i guess one day it might still happen... but I end up getting sucked into the bitching :chuckle: i will be positive tomorrow :D:logic:

Edited by Gemsy

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:LOL: this post was going to say 'omg yay so many words', I'm just happy to see a bit of buzz going on ... but yeah

I know for a fact the negativity here has driven people away.

I have so many muser friends on Facebook who feel they can't come here. But that's what keeps it negatiiiiiive ffs we need some fangirling back in here :LOL: AND THEN people are negative about that

My last few years of moderating this place was spent trying to make people feel welcome and get along :LOL: i guess one day it might still happen... but I end up getting sucked into the bitching :chuckle: i will be positive tomorrow :D:logic:

 

There just needs to be more people with more opinions, likely. And balanced ones.

I don't care if people enjoyed the tour or not, I'm just talking about my experiences. I get riled up when people bitchily can't accept my opinion, or blanket insult fans saying they "deserved it." That's more negative than anything I've ever said. (And I once said Survival retroactively made me hate the prior albums... :chuckle: )

 

On the other hand, a lot of the FB "fanboys" think if you don't like one little thing about Muse, you're not a fan, you should be lucky they exist, and they ostracize you. So, that's not really a positive experience, either. :(

I'm quite happy being in the middle and being able to say I adore Drones but thought the band didn't meet its potential on the tour.

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guys yesterday`s setlist was immense - add motp for resistance and you would get the best possible set for the drones tour....really jealous though the vienna set wasn`t bad at all :)

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Oh wow Bliss, CE, Stockholm, TaB and Reapers in the same set. Yeah add MoTP for Resistance and maybe AP or USoE for Madness and that's actually pretty damn wonderful.

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As feared, due to the low height at the Copenhagen venue, the drones were placed at the end of the runways and only six were used last night. And holy fuck, it must've been about 100 degrees in there! The smell and sight of sweat were outstanding.

 

But, without a doubt one the best Muse gigs I've seen! It's hard to say it was the best when Plug In Baby wasn't played, so I'll put it on par with Berlin 2013. Wasn't expecting Bliss again but sounded great as always, finally got to hear Citizen (even though it did dissapoint me a little because of the fan hype), Stockholm was absolutely mega and the outro jams were insane, and I think Take a Bow sounded much better than in London. Consider myself very lucky with that set.

 

All Danish media reviews generally agree in the stage show was one of the most impressive in the history of music, but that it sadly outdid the music and the band most of the time.

They score really low on the sound, but this venue has always been criticised for its conditions to make tolerable sound. However, for once I felt the sound was very good. Everything stood clear in the sound picture and I could feel Dom's kick drum and Chris' bass.

 

Exited going again tonight having a little hope for Assassin. I saw three groups of people in the crowd holding up signs for it and they definitely saw ours. We are also planning on singing happy birthday to Matt after Starlight. :happy:

Edited by ChampenJacob

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finally got to hear Citizen (even though it did dissapoint me a little because of the fan hype)

 

Yeah Citizen gets a little too much hype. It's a really good live song though, and better than the vast majority of the set, they just have better live songs. Micro Cuts is a million times better live.

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