Gemsy Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) The Muse shows I've enjoyed most? Reading 2011, Download 2015, Earls Court 2004 and Eden 2006. The thing they all had in common? They were (relatively) stripped back shows. Just screens and lights. No real 'production'. I just wish they'd do 'a tour'. Plain and simple. thumbsup They always mention how much they like stripping back when they do it. They always talk about how much they like just rocking out to the rockier songs when they do it. They even made an album with the intention of capturing the above two points (and for the most part they succeeded). But when they actually start proper touring that's all gone. thisthis UGH it's all Matt you just know it. he's all drones and UFOs and balloons and rose petals and CONCEPTS. the sane two just like riffs and rocking out. just read an old thing on LJ where someone said 'ugh I don't see the attraction with muse, they're just dull stadium rock' I think Muse are the only band I can think of who've got MORE boring with fame and fortune... Edited June 7, 2016 by Gemsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Was funny the other day when I played my mate some of their recent songs, all the time I'm like 'ARGH C'MON their drums these days are too restrained, it STILL needs more, it ends too quickly' and he was mostly like, 'nah nothing wrong there, it's fine as it is'... I don't know why I always feel it needs to kick off more, I don't know why I always feel like they're holding back, why it took me 4 years to appreciate Madness and the handful of other slow poppy songs I came to love after ignoring them because they don't kick off enough, I don't know why I always want more from this fucking band when they're fucking nuts as they are ... it's just. like. HOW can they be too mainstream yet totally Spinal Tap bananas at the same time?! My life is so conflicted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kueller Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I believe Matt after the Psycho Tour also talked positively on the experience, as well as shows like Download. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Come to think of it, isn't it normally Dom talking about loving stripping it back and rocking out? I recall a few from Bells, but they always start with something like "it was really weird, but then I liked it." Anyways, it's really clear that what they REALLY love is money, and they're totally willing to sacrifice quality for it. Which still doesn't excuse the fact that they could still put a T2L level of energy into the performance, and have the best of both worlds... Maybe they really DON'T enjoy it anymore Maybe when Bellamy told someone the best part of the US tour was "when it's over" wasn't US specific; maybe he meant just gigs in general. (Maybe I'm reaching, because we have way more proof than that that they hate us here...) I feel like this tour was largely a few Drones songs away from being one of those big "Greatest Hits" "we're back from retirement" sort of cash grab tours. Except they never actually went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Come to think of it, isn't it normally Dom talking about loving stripping it back and rocking out? I recall a few from Bells, but they always start with something like "it was really weird, but then I liked it." Anyways, it's really clear that what they REALLY love is money, and they're totally willing to sacrifice quality for it. Which still doesn't excuse the fact that they could still put a T2L level of energy into the performance, and have the best of both worlds... Maybe they really DON'T enjoy it anymore Maybe when Bellamy told someone the best part of the US tour was "when it's over" wasn't US specific; maybe he meant just gigs in general. (Maybe I'm reaching, because we have way more proof than that that they hate us here...) I feel like this tour was largely a few Drones songs away from being one of those big "Greatest Hits" "we're back from retirement" sort of cash grab tours. Except they never actually went away. Yeah and he's always been eager to not have to concentrate too much.. which I used to think was so he could rock out & throw more shapes... but apparently he can't even be arsed to do that now Saw the fan's vid of Dom in Prague saying they don't rehearse at all so any song that isn't perfect just gets tossed. Maybe they just need to actually rehearse then. Lol. I have been wondering where the hell they could even go from here. I believe Matt after the Psycho Tour also talked positively on the experience, as well as shows like Download. Ah yeah but I feel like that was before this recent spell of being unfit/laziness/complacency/whatever it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topo_musero Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I honestly think that they're tired of touring, but it's their main way of earning money, so... I rather prefer them to focus on making albums tbh. They really excel in stripped back shows though. I want them to restrain themselves a lot and not feel like the entire show is choreographed. I feel more energy from them. I feel that they even like it more than heavily produced gigs. But what do I know? . The thing is that they've promoted themselves badly imo. They haven't really shown that they are a diverse sounding band. So they're stuck with almost the same songs in tours, because those are the songs that get a better crowd reaction in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn. Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 it's their main way of earning money, so... I rather prefer them to focus on making albums tbh. That's the state of the industry, sadly. But i agree, my main thing with Muse are the albums, if i can enjoy a show or two every tour is a nice bonus, as long as they are doing good albums is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Yeah and he's always been eager to not have to concentrate too much.. which I used to think was so he could rock out & throw more shapes... but apparently he can't even be arsed to do that now Saw the fan's vid of Dom in Prague saying they don't rehearse at all so any song that isn't perfect just gets tossed. Maybe they just need to actually rehearse then. Lol. I have been wondering where the hell they could even go from here. Ah yeah but I feel like that was before this recent spell of being unfit/laziness/complacency/whatever it is tbh, the biggest reason I'm negative about their tours (other than their unjustified, unprofessional hatred of my country, of course,) is that they just seem so goddamned lazy, and they don't care that it shows. They're not ashamed to TELL people about it. They dream up some unrealistically huge stage show, then kick back while hundreds of people make it a reality, and then just laze their way through the same damn songs they don't need to rehearse for the last 10 years. Hearing him say they don't rehearse at all just infuriated me. They make a shitload of money off these tours, and it sounds like they don't really deserve a damn penny of it. I'm also always confused about the "didn't sound good, so we tossed it" thing... Stuff like The Handler is making the cut... How bad was the other stuff? I honestly think that they're tired of touring, but it's their main way of earning money, so... I rather prefer them to focus on making albums tbh. They really excel in stripped back shows though. I want them to restrain themselves a lot and not feel like the entire show is choreographed. I feel more energy from them. I feel that they even like it more than heavily produced gigs. But what do I know? . The thing is that they've promoted themselves badly imo. They haven't really shown that they are a diverse sounding band. So they're stuck with almost the same songs in tours, because those are the songs that get a better crowd reaction in general. Gemsy said it earlier, about how it's considered okay to just play the same damn songs at every gig since ever, because that's what the majority of fans want, and what gets the reactions. Thing is, that shows a real lack of integrity towards what they do, imo. To not throw in a couple of songs that people who actually give a shit about you want to hear (which of course they do in Europe,) to not be willing to put in a little time to work out some songs to play, or to act like it's an unbearable chore to take damn near a million dollars for less than two hours work... I mean, that really says something about the band. Sure, it's their main way of making money, but these guys are filthy fucking rich. How many multimillion dollar homes does Matt own now? Take a fucking break if you can't stand it anymore... Sorry. Ranting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I honestly think that they're tired of touring, but it's their main way of earning money, so... I rather prefer them to focus on making albums tbh. They really excel in stripped back shows though. I want them to restrain themselves a lot and not feel like the entire show is choreographed. I feel more energy from them. I feel that they even like it more than heavily produced gigs. But what do I know? . The thing is that they've promoted themselves badly imo. They haven't really shown that they are a diverse sounding band. So they're stuck with almost the same songs in tours, because those are the songs that get a better crowd reaction in general. Yeah but we've been really trying to drill that home to them on here for years and years, everyone hates feeling good etc, but the response at the shows gives them a different message... when you've got thousands of screaming girls every night and selling out of VIP corporate hospitality packages, you're not gonna be giving many fucks about whingers on the messageboard... I know they've tried with us (psycho tour and voting for songs etc) but it never feels like enough. On the other hand I keep saying I can't be arsed to follow another album of boring mainstream melodies and a showboating tour full of FX & VIPs... and this time I've actually voted with my feet - I haven't been to any of the drones gigs yet here I am still watching the vids and fucking talking about them I'd understand if they were tired of it. They have been touring non-stop since year dot so maybe it's time for a few years off (with the occasional mini stripped-back arena tour to keep us happy haha, but imagine trying to get fucking tickets for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 If the Psycho Tour was "for us" wouldn't they have done a better job at trying to get tickets in the hands of fans...? It was still the same old same old tiny percentage for the pre-sale, and the rest into a general sale. And the US got really fucked. It was just a stunt to get people excited and talking about the band again before the album, and it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 tbh, the biggest reason I'm negative about their tours (other than their unjustified, unprofessional hatred of my country, of course,) is that they just seem so goddamned lazy, and they don't care that it shows. They're not ashamed to TELL people about it. They dream up some unrealistically huge stage show, then kick back while hundreds of people make it a reality, and then just laze their way through the same damn songs they don't need to rehearse for the last 10 years. Hearing him say they don't rehearse at all just infuriated me. They make a shitload of money off these tours, and it sounds like they don't really deserve a damn penny of it. I'm also always confused about the "didn't sound good, so we tossed it" thing... Stuff like The Handler is making the cut... How bad was the other stuff? Gemsy said it earlier, about how it's considered okay to just play the same damn songs at every gig since ever, because that's what the majority of fans want, and what gets the reactions. Thing is, that shows a real lack of integrity towards what they do, imo. To not throw in a couple of songs that people who actually give a shit about you want to hear (which of course they do in Europe,) or to act like it's an unbearable chore to take damn near a million dollars for less than two hours work... I mean, that really says something about the band. Sure, it's their main way of making money, but these guys are filthy fucking rich. How many multimillion dollar homes does Matt own now? Take a fucking break if you can't stand it anymore... Sorry. Ranting. RANT ON <3 I'm with you. The laziness is palpable. I do wonder if he's feeling it himself. What the fuck do I do now. Play another gig, then what. Buy another house, then what. Gotta be depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 RANT ON <3 I'm with you. The laziness is palpable. I do wonder if he's feeling it himself. What the fuck do I do now. Play another gig, then what. Buy another house, then what. Gotta be depressing. I dunno, it looks like he's rather enjoying his life. And I mean, if touring's taking you away from that... take a break. Be with your loved ones, spend your money. You're set for life; be happy with it. Matt seems to feel age creeping up on him, and a finite end to the band with it, and is forcing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Wow we are so harsh Running round in circles... Oh no I don't mean he must be depressed, far from it haha. But I mean to have everything you ever dreamed of just done, must be a bit... 'now wot' You know what would shake things up nicely - playing some of your old songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Maybe it's from a long stretch of being poor, but I think I could probably amuse myself just fine for the rest of my life if I had that kind of money. I certainly wouldn't keep doing a job I wasn't enjoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn. Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Remember there are fans in worse situation than you. Samoan musers will kill to hear even Feeling Good played live, as the band barely tour Samoa nowdays... shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 And there's starving kids in Africa. Just from a consumerist point of view, I feel like a band should be giving a good performance for the money. Feeling Good's a shit example because it's a piano song, but Starlight for instance - there's a difference between playing a tired old song, and playing a tired old song and making it LOOK like a tired old song. The band, on this tour, looked like it was actually mad at us for having to put on a gig 10,000 of us paid for. And putting a big shiny window dressing on it is just kinda polishing the proverbial turd. I mean... maybe the band's wondering why the crowds are deteriorating in energy... and they need to look in a mirror. I can see a band I've never heard of before play for 100 people in a dive bar, and be completely electrified by the energy they put into their performance. Even though no one in the crowd has heard of them before, and most people are texting or getting drinks (or deep fried hot dogs.) I shouldn't be put to sleep by a favorite band playing one of my favorite songs of all time (like Map, for instance.) That's a good way to just attract people who are only interested in your stage show, and from all accounts the band is irritated with that. It's confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topo_musero Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) They put themselves in that situation. So one must wonder if they're comfortable with it or not. They still have time to change their minds (or attitude). If not, I'll still listen to their albums, but they somehow have managed to make me lose my interest in their shows. And they're probably my favourite band. That's hard to achieve. Congrats Muse! :LOL: Honestly, what bothers me the most is that I think that they have lots of potential. They're really talented musicians, they already proved that they can feel really energetic on stage... And being my favorite band, I want them to live up to their potential. They're not imo. It feels like they're sitting in their Iron Throne scratching their balls :LOL: Rant, but I still love them... sometimes Edited June 8, 2016 by topo_musero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I'll certainly check out the next album. I fucking love Drones. There will just always be that shadow of how disappointed I am in the actual band hanging over it. Why did this happen so quickly? The last tour was fine... And I'm certainly not going to spend $1600 to go see their lackluster tour. (Before some snarky bastard says I'm being hyperbolic, the full tally was $1559.91 for Philly and DC. Airfare is pathetically expensive coming out of MN to most cities, I waited way too long to buy plane tickets, and we got stuck with a $300+ hotel room coming out of the unplanned DC trip because everything in that hell hole was booked up. The flights alone were $307 each, plus $35 "seating fee," each, $25 to print our boarding passes for some reason, plus taxes and fees. I'm not counting any of the food, gas between cities, or the multiple bottles of wine I drank when stuck at the airport for 14 hours.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Heat Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Muse loves money They love it so much they lose it touring your country. I get you are upset, this tour started badly but it got incredibly good through the european dates. Have you thought that maybe all they needed is not a lame crowd chanting only for Starlight or barely moving their heads during Psycho? Any idea where that happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kueller Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Self-inflicted problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fam201 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I am starting to believe that the band have kind of regretted going for the 360 tour. Could be that they're regretting it, I don't know. I guess they just wanted to try it out. But Matt saying something along the lines of 'the stage makes it really difficult for the moshpit' (which is what I was referring to in my earlier post, but I can't find the interview for that anymore) makes me think their conclusion is something like 'alright, a normal end-stage fits us better'... It really does seem like Dom is not on the same page with the direction they are going, both sets and setlists. When looking at the comment from Matt I just mentioned, I think that concerning the stage they might be on the same boat. If the Psycho Tour was "for us" wouldn't they have done a better job at trying to get tickets in the hands of fans...? It was still the same old same old tiny percentage for the pre-sale, and the rest into a general sale. And the US got really fucked. It was just a stunt to get people excited and talking about the band again before the album, and it worked. Hm, I feel like the Psycho tour really was "for us", and not just a stunt. In Europe, there was said pre-sale and tickets we're personalised iirc, so touts would have less of a chance. I think that's at least trying to get the tickets in the right hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Maybe that's why there's been some grumpiness about playing America then, if they're throwing money away doing it? But it's an age-old problem for bands - do we want hits and stadiums (& money we can burn) or do we want so-called 'artistic integrity' & to only be appreciated by 'proper' music fans? It's why David Bowie set fire to his stadium rock show stage set and started making dark drum & bass in the '90s - he was sick of showboating and playing to people who just wanted to hear China Girl. But with muse it's not even like we're asking for that kind of deviation, because the awesome music and artistry is still there, even the energy, in the recorded music! If they don't like the sort of crowd they're getting, just scale it back, dump the crooning, REHEARSE and play the interesting old songs that brought them to our attention in the first place. And wake up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanp16 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I'll certainly check out the next album. I fucking love Drones. There will just always be that shadow of how disappointed I am in the actual band hanging over it. Why did this happen so quickly? The last tour was fine... And I'm certainly not going to spend $1600 to go see their lackluster tour. (Before some snarky bastard says I'm being hyperbolic, the full tally was $1559.91 for Philly and DC. Airfare is pathetically expensive coming out of MN to most cities, I waited way too long to buy plane tickets, and we got stuck with a $300+ hotel room coming out of the unplanned DC trip because everything in that hell hole was booked up. The flights alone were $307 each, plus $35 "seating fee," each, $25 to print our boarding passes for some reason, plus taxes and fees. I'm not counting any of the food, gas between cities, or the multiple bottles of wine I drank when stuck at the airport for 14 hours.) Airfares in the US sound absolutely insane. It's strange because in movies you essentially never see anyone book a flight, they always just rock up to the airport and buy a ticket, which I imagine makes it even worse. Then you have Europe, where on a good day I can fly between two countries for €5 = $5.68 and before the recession you could get flights for 10 fucking cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) Muse loves money They love it so much they lose it touring your country. I get you are upset, this tour started badly but it got incredibly good through the european dates. Have you thought that maybe all they needed is not a lame crowd chanting only for Starlight or barely moving their heads during Psycho? Any idea where that happened? First off, I don't buy this idea that they lose money touring in the US. At all. It's up there with this "we wanted to bring the arena stage show to the US so all our fans got the same show." Are there areas of the country that aren't profitable? Yes. And they make sure to skip them. It's why the Drones Tour had such a pitiful US run in the first place. And that also makes point two bullshit; you don't think your fans would rather see you at all than have you bring the stage over and skip most of the country? If they were losing money and doing this out of the kindness of their heart for their fans, they wouldn't have skipped most of the country, and the tours wouldn't be getting progressively shorter since, like, '09. They do it because they sell themselves as the "best rock act in the world" because of that stage show. They know damn well that a ton of those people in the crowd, US or Europe, are there because they heard what a spectacle it is. And then they act shitty about the crowds they themselves solicit. Even if they were losing money, which would be a US only issue anyways, that's sort of 100% their choice... You don't gain the right to act bitchy about a situation you knowingly put yourself in. "We do this for the fans" doesn't jive with their attitude towards those fans. And don't give me that bs about the US crowds. Because much of Europe looked EXACTLY the same. There were a few dates here and there that were standouts, but overall the crowds were much softer this time around, due to a combination of the terrible stage, and the gig goers starting to slant heavier to tourists, and older fans. The setlists have improved, but the energy of the band has still been wildly inconsistent, as well, and typically below what we were seeing during T2L and even the Psycho Tour. The band is still joking about not rehearsing, and even though they've added a couple of big songs to the rotation, the rotations are still pretty damn minimum. It's not like they're exactly putting the work in for Europe, or anything. And they're still showing up half asleep for the gigs. And admitting it. TL;DL: the band can't blame their fans and paying customers for shit they, the band, bring on themselves. And fans who do the same are just brainwashed xenophobes. Airfares in the US sound absolutely insane. It's strange because in movies you essentially never see anyone book a flight, they always just rock up to the airport and buy a ticket, which I imagine makes it even worse. Then you have Europe, where on a good day I can fly between two countries for €5 = $5.68 and before the recession you could get flights for 10 fucking cent. It's especially infuriating since our tax money bailed out the industry, and it was handled in such a way that allowed the couple of big airlines to stifle competition and raise prices to painful levels. It's wildly variable from state to state, too, so living in a place like I do without a real big business hub or tourism push, it's a lot more expensive flying out of than, say, Chicago or something. I picked Philly because it was the cheapest of the tourdates other than Texas, which I couldn't get work off for, and when I first looked it was $167, which isn't so bad. When I got the gig tickets the next week, the prices were up to $264 already, but also Muse announced these dates with too little notice to get good deals, really. I ended up deciding not to go, and my bf bought the tickets without consulting me at a higher price. The day the gigs were announced, flights to Detroit, were already $492. I had to skip a gig I wanted desperately to see last week because flights to NYC were $300+, even booked way in advance. Then we got stranded for a while and the airline cancelled our flight and said they weren't going to be able to get us on another one to Philly in time, so the bf tried to book day of with another airline, and it was in the $1000 range. So yeah, those people in the movies are rich. For all the money, they don't give two shits about customer service, either. Sat on a plane for two hours before they cancelled the flight and had us deboard, and they got on the intercom and told us they had no more flights for us that day, so we could wait until the next afternoon (would have missed the gig) or we could go book with another airline, and they'd give us a voucher instead of our money back. Edited June 8, 2016 by SerpentSatellite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Heat Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Playing for 6k people with this extremely expensive stage is losing money whether you admit it or not. Even in europe they probably still lose money with the 1 night nearly sold out gigs. The crowds were better in each and every one of the gigs in Europe, some of them not so much more, others put the US to shame. Don't make me go graphic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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