Hey Gemsy, I've missed you (I know, I wasn't here. Good to see you! And everyone, Gemsy was the loudest though... ) Love the article, and I love IBTY even more. Cracks me up every time and I enjoy the melodies too

After some laughter and swearing after the movie (why did I think, even for a second, they'd actually play the song? smh...) I listened to it once earlier. I like it. It's catchy, for me it has something of Amy MacDonald's songs - upbeat, nice vibe especially in the guitars... I feared it would get too near Madness etc., but it didn't. Nice job.

Oh, das ist toll! Gratuliere! Ich kenne Leipzig leider überhaupt nicht. Dafür aber Nürnberg und Berlin - Nürnberg ist meines Erachtens die viel schönere Stadt, aber Berlin wäre schneller zu erreichen von Leipzig aus und hat natürlich viel mehr Konzerte, Kultur usw. Wollt ihr dann zusammen wohnen, oder werdet ihr am Wochenende pendeln?

Hast du das Angebot schon angenommen? Wohnungen kannst du zum Beispiel auf diesen Webseiten suchen: https://www.immobilienscout24.de/ http://www.wg-gesucht.de/ Ich kenne mich in Dresden nicht aus, aber falls du nicht selbst suchen kannst oder willst kannst du vielleicht auch einen Makler beauftragen. Melde dich gerne, wenn du Fragen hast!

Nice present, thanks! (Not that they'll read it, but just in case )

For a moment, I was wondering how they were playing MWAH WOAH...with-out a harmonica

That reminded me of the BLUE LIGHT On a better note, finally, I hear the two "combatants" have actually managed to find an agreement Nice to see that fight of many years end at the nearly right moment So I was able to watch the video, finally! 'Tis funny Very OTT-silly-fun, I like that

So now the no-show message has changed from 'not available because it MIGHT contain stuff not licensed for your country' to 'not available in your country.' . I would have thought since we can watch basically ALL other Muse stuff from here, we would be allowed to get that too when they've gotten round to figuring it out. Obviously not. No other page I can find where I could legally watch it either so far. I am contemplating writing a very nice letter to the GEMA and youtube after this. Oh and btw, I could watch the original song on youtube if I wanted to. How incredibly logical...

Same. Is that legit/safe/etc.? Never heard of it and a search won't tell me much, or I'm missing it.

That concept of M6s, I can't even

WTF:LOL::LOL:

Exactly :LOL: I never said or indicated you didn't read the other thread, I said I don't want to read most of it and wondered whether any of you had the same thoughts. Also, I didn't want to post what I did over there so I brought it here to discuss it in a nicer atmosphere. Hm, I think in a way it's easiest for new bands - nobody has any expectations about them yet, so they can do what they want. Whilst at the same time, they might be under pressure to get a foot in the "market" and feel pressed to make something popular. Other than that Muse should have it reasonably easy, they've done such weird things that basically anything goes, musically. I do hope they stay in rock/&pop generally though, anything else just isn't as energetic and great. I agree with your comments about pop mostly. Tbh these days I'm rather lazy to listen to a lot of music and especially new stuff, I just don't have the time/energy for it. So I stick to those I know atm and otherwise listen to old rock and also pop. Or nothing I don't have any. Isn't that one of the b-sides impossible to get anywhere unless you by chance bought the single decades ago?

That's fine, I wasn't sure if I should actually Yeah I think the problem is if we don't look into the other thread, we'll miss some of the good links. So yeah, skim-reading. Talking of the other thread, one of their discussion points is basically whether musicians do what they do their way because they love it (=personal passion with a result others can listen to), or whether musicians/a band are a company who create a product which needs to be best suited to the customer's needs - which would mean they would have to start the process thinking what customers=fans want to hear. Which, writing songs, would be a disaster. We love being surprised, so we mustn't know what they're going to write (except maybe for weird hints that never lead us to where they're heading anyway), because they write something they think is way too ott and crazy and whatnot and we'll most of us love it because of that (and maybe despite ourselves!). Also, even more than that, their music is expression of themselves, their lives, their inspiration. If we want our needs to be fulfilled we can get that done ourselves. But if we listen to certain musicians' music, it's theirs, and we can take it or leave it. Thinking about a tour, the view changes a little. There is a supposed discrepancy between writing such mad stuff and producing it, and then playing gigs that are less mad - though, do they see it that way? A lot of things these days are about show - I won't start listing things, I'd be quicker listing what isn't show - so their thoughts about 360° stage with projection curtains and drones is very much in line with crazy/ott when it comes to show! So whether they thought about the consumer/fan whilst designing it, the result is as if they did - just not in the way the rarity-lovers wanted. And when it comes to that, what's the proportion of those vs. the casuals? Of course pleasing everyone is nice, I just think a lot of the time people are predisposed to like things or not, whether they know it or not. I remember being totally shocked at Loreley back at the time to see such a short "stadium" gig which had been so expensive, time-consuming to get to, and frustrated for it to have ended so soon, without explanation... so I focused on the facts that I had enjoyed the gig very much, seen most of the songs I expected and wanted, enjoyed a beautiful location, survived the heat that day, gotten out of the area really quickly - a stroke of luck 95% of attendees did not have to that degree - and when I got back I tried to find out what the problem was, and it was not the band's fault so I was glad to not have condemned them previously! I wrote to the organisers to make sure they knew what they'd done was rubbish, and that was it. Back on the topic of the other thread - I understand most of the complaints, but some are just turning in negative cycles deeper and deeper, and I'm fed up of it - hence trying to not read most of the negative stuff any more. Glad to see someone's done that petition which is an active way of making things better or at least trying. If it gets us more (then no-more) rarities, at least something good has come out of that ugly spiral there. Well, at least we know where they get it from then! Oh don't worry, that's fine. I hate bad language too I looked it up online and farther is the physical distance, further everything else as well but they are mostly interchangeable. So Claudia, if you're speaking of a real distance, it's farther, and it's figurative, further... I was thinking of Montreux too, but I chose less distance and a better timing. Oh well... Yay! Still hoping for professional record... #soon

So, the positive Muse discussion thread! I'm torn whether to continue reading the other one. I already try to skip certain posts except for links because I'm fed up of all that negativity pouring out of them, but I don't want to miss the videos and such posted We should create an automatic transfer service to here for links only... Montreux, well... I'm happy they showed they CAN still play these songs. I would have done a lot to get Hyper Music and others. But y'know, I enjoyed my gig, I couldn't make this one, and even though we'll probably never see the recordings, I hope something good amateur will at least find it's way to us. Claudia, you mean further (doesn't work like 'weit - weiter', it's far - further. But don't ask me why, I have no clue )

+1!

Yes, I meant you you're welcome! I wouldn't mind if you posted that link been a while since I've seen that video I agree about the bass lines - even folks who don't know Muse recognise some and most like them I also love Resistance (album and especially song) for the melody and harmonies.

I kinda thought you would do this Here goes! That post is awesome Gemsy I love the harmonies they use and especially side melodies. And all the silly ott stuff

So in the end both generally and Muse specific, but you say it doesn't have to be that way, at least not as 'quiet' as it seems to be. Thanks! This might sound really off topic, but can general health also have anything to do with the more "quiet" audiences, as well as the softer shows you've described? Just thinking, statistics and the likes here as well as watching for yourself at least show kids on average (!) way less fit than previous generations (to the point that quite some can't even sprint for the bus), and many of them just physically can't be active for a song, let alone a whole gig?! May that be similar your side of the pond? /justathought Well, if they consciously made the choice to invite those crowds rather than just figuring they'll try to promote more poppy songs since the others didn't work there and didn't think about what kind of crowds that would attract, yes. If not, unfortunate results of the choice for poppy songs. Either way, they made the original choice so they have to deal with the outcome. In case of more general aspects (like I suggested above, general fitness, as an idea), it's not their job to figure that one out, that's personal and public health stuff, then. I imagine it's not so easy for them - their original fan base is at an age when they're having families so time and money are a lot shorter, they must - if they think about this kind of stuff at all - be wondering how to attract sufficient new fans to keep it going. The bold bit intrigues me. I'm having a hard time believing it - not as in doubting your words, but wondering why on earth that should be the case. Though, second thought... why shouldn't a soccer mum (what a phrase btw ) go beserk if she likes Muse, and jump and party? I know, it's probably a wording for stuck-up folks who need their make-up perfect midnight to midnight and be perfect in their SUVs all the time, or something...right? I'm remembering some harder rock gigs I went to, and thinking I don't necessarily need all that for Muse. Though with all the headbanging, there was a good turnover of more or less fresh air going on - at the price of getting hair in your face every now and again They didn't actually (on average) jump that much compared to the rock/pop type gigs I've been to - jumping and whisking your hair through the air in a perfect circle is probably a little complicated... BUT they were all moving continually, except further back, where the more sedate people gathered and just stood, nodding their heads. Sounds like you had a great gig, and may have even better to come! Enjoy!

I'm not sure I fully get you. Serpent says US crowds are generally "quieter" in her opinion, and do I understand you right that you are saying it is not US crowds in general that are quieter, but only those for Muse? If there is favoritism without any good reason, it shouldn't be. All my posts were trying to figure out if there are any good reasons or at least explanations, and balance, and get out of the spiral. You made it sound like everyone was sitting there and just at max smiling and clapping twice after a song. What you wrote there sounds better. Still, a jumping and dancing crowd is nicer - IMO. And if you've ever been on a stage yourself, you'll know that you will hardly ever see a smile on a face in the crowd, the light is on you and not the crowd, and even if a spot shines into the audience it's hard to discern much if there's still light in your own face. Movement is seen more easily. On the other things, I don't see any point in trying to discuss any further, I'll agree to disagree with you there. Thanks! It did take some courage to jump in and try to stop the negativity! Me too. I love shows of each size and each production, and I love these ott silly lovely bombastic things Muse always come up with.

That's an idea that makes sense. Also the musical comment has its place... it's nice though. I would like harder music though. I don't think you can compare your job to a band's job. A band creates music they like, feel comfortable with (or not), anyhow a product they can stand behind and release to the world. It is a creation, not just an exchange of time and skill for money, as conventional jobs often can be unless you are in design or an otherwise creative kind of position. Again, think about the example of football. There have been games that have been swayed by the crowd rather than the team spirit, and the payment thing is similar here to music concerts. A fan is proud to have helped his team if he feels he has done so, especially in such memorable games. An example of that might be the movie of the 1954 final in Bern. Regardless of historic accuracy which I don't know about, it shows what I mean quite nicely. If your culture is to be a group of soggy fans sitting there with grumpy faces without any chants you can probably watch your team go down until they don't need any spectators any more. /drasticexample I just don't dig the "cultural reasons" explanation approach. If other bands figure it out, fine for them. If Muse don't, they probably have a good reason. Maybe they hate your crowds because they hate the laziness they feel within them, or whatever. Maybe they're indifferent but decide to shorten the sets a little. Maybe they're still peeved at the Us from some band-historical thing years ago, who knows. (would be a little childish, the latter, and should be overcome duly). Maybe they're more sensitive to crowd reactions than others, and find it hard to deal with your supposedly specific gig-attendance-type, and (so far) impossible to overcome the negativity it perpetuates. Of course it's a business transaction, but one including a product called 'fun', and a dynamic performance. So it is also a two way street. If I were part of a band, I'd probably just skip your country based on what I've read so far. The only reason I could think of doing it despite not liking the gigs there would be trying to keep a market going, and it'd be hard to get a good motivation going for that in those circumstances, with that "feedback". Note that I'm not saying Muse should lean back and let you fans do the job! I'm saying that after an initial start of motivation, when nothing comes back, everyone can feel disheartened and as if their effort were pointless. Imagine doing competitive sports, and every time you start off anew, motivated, the referee screws you over. Or the crowd boos you down because you're not leading 3:0 by minute 3. It must be really easy to keep up the effort... It's not about your tricking yourself into believing you are being entertained. What I mean is that without the mindset to let yourself be entertained and remain open to it, you won't be. It's like the penny on the street - if you walk head high eyes closed you're not going to find it unless you fall over it, and then you'll hate it. If you're not happy with the football example, let's have one with health professionals. A doctor is supposed to figure out what's wrong with you and help you get better. So, if in your interaction with the doctor you find a good communication and your talk becomes more than a mere list of symptoms from your side or questions from his side and a few tests, but you actively, together, basically figure it out from scratch with his knowledge of the theory and experience from other people, and your own experiences and knowledge about yourself, you both profit. You pay money for the visit, but by contributing to it, you gain so much more - and since you pay anyway, it makes sense to contribute. You get your health back, and he is happy to have helped you. Basically, a lot of what you say points into the direction that Muse should be robots who do a fantastic job regardless of anything that ever happens anywhere. They are not allowed to be tired, not allowed to have a break, nothing. If you expect that of them, the only thing that can happen to you is to be disappointed. Just accept they're human, fallible, and that they also respond to their environment on the same scales as we do, respectively. And if you're that pissed about their tour, don't go there next time at all. But then don't complain about missing it if it was good. I agree with this part, but as mentioned, if nothing ever comes back, it's hard to keep such energy going (and you know, if the same rubbish happened a few gigs before yours, the starting energy can easily be less at yours too). If the crowd is not, in large parts, responsive to the attempt of having their passion and energy elicited, the band is lost in trying. I had exactly that (the good case) at my gig, so I'm finding it hard to believe it's Muse' fault - I sincerely doubt they have personally changed to the worse for the Us tour and then back all of a sudden for Europe. Differences they might have with some areas aside, I just doubt the transformation back and forth. Dunno, I know all my lyrics, I'm usually too busy with the gig to notice if the others do. I could see a lot of singing along in the standing crowd though, most of those around me did not know all the lyrics or at least weren't singing along all the way but did, for instance, for Uprising. Well, that's a list of songs with little hard elements in it, so it's obviously not going to make people jump like mad or shout "I'm a ROCK concert!" and iirc download is a festival for harder folks so playing such a list there would have been pretty stupid in terms of attracting flying objects towards stage, heads, ...? In terms of gig flow, the list is not very sensible, but who knows what they intended? Maybe they wanted the kids to fall asleep tl;dr I'm not saying the tour is perfect, but I'm trying to advocate a reasoned approach and seeing things from different perspectives rather than just blaming the band for everything regardless. I'm happy to admit I don't know the American crowds from experience so I cannot judge first-hand from them, I'm just juggling ideas and trying to see things in a balanced way. And also - to get this shitty spiral of negativity stopped in here. Though I won't try for too long, since I don't approve of wasting my energy either. If people have sincere and reasonable complaints, there should be ways to get them through to the people they're directed at, or find other ways of communicating them.

Well, being passionate is a good thing, as long as it's led into good channels (aka not bashing others/oneself and such rubbish) ! I actually was thinking of you when I wrote that because I remembered you hadn't gone. Whilst your choice had sadder causes than just "voting with your feet/money", it's still the choice you made. I agree that ticket prices are becoming horrendous, I have thankfully forgotten what I paid for my gig, it was one of the most expensive ones but I wanted that city rather than others that would have been cheaper. I don't think there needs to be a causation of higher ticket prices and more boring crowds, at least I can't think of a good reason for it ad hoc. It may be connected to general problems of most people with their attention spans - how easy is it to focus on a ~2 hour gig when you're used to checking your phone every few minutes? Not saying that's true for everyone, but for a lot. I grabbed my phone to take a few pictures and one little video, and then forgot about it and jumped. In the seats Memorable energy experiences, even though the audience where I was was rather more comfortable than mad like me I don't think it's just about songs, and if that impression came up, I guess you now know it wasn't intended. Talking about crowd energy: You (as we all) have no opportunity to know how they see it. You see their reaction, which is influenced by crowd reaction(s). Fact is: there is some reason you concluded your country getting worse sets than the rest of the world so far. I don't know everything by heart, but if you got a song or two less, that would be justified. Your crowds appear to be a lot less enjoyable for the band, and you can go on about how you still enjoy the gig and cultural differences and whatever - what matters is what the band sees, hears and feels at the gig in the moment they're playing it. If they feel energy, it creates a good vibe. If they have the impression that all the stuff they do kind of dies into the crowd and there is nothing coming back, they can't feed on it, basically, and of course it's hard to keep giving when the reason you give a gig is to share a great time with your fans. Of course not going to the gig was a very short-term decision for you, but still, you chose your own reaction. You could have gone and said 'Damn, we only get shorter gigs, my favourite song hasn't appeared yet, shite. Still, I'm going to go and enjoy my gig.'. You could have tried to take action previously. You could have done it afterwards. Just complaining here is no action that would change anything. You could have chosen to hurt them as well as yourself, had it been so important to you to show you disapprove. I'm not saying which choice is good, just that it's yours. I don't mosh at gigs either, but I come out of them thoroughly drenched in my own sweat because I dance and jump and enjoy myself, and I'm sure it has been seen and felt by the band too. Also my enjoying myself can make those around me join in if they want to, which creates a bigger dynamic pocket, which can influence enough of the audience to really be seen. I don't need them to look at me personally, but a rock gig just isn't about sitting like a statue and just watching, it's about a flow back and forth and a lot of energy. Even with jumping, I watch the stage, and the only times I ever miss something that happens on stage is when someone passes me/shoves me or I have to take a moment to secure something or help someone or the likes. I jump and watch the stage. Easy-peasy. It makes me smile to write this because I can think of so many times I've jumped my feet into burning at Muse gigs :happy: If you don't like jumping/dancing/moshing, you don't have to do it. But you can't expect people from other cultural areas to like your choice, or even to understand it. Of course it would be nice if everyone understood each other and Muse adapted to your different kind of audience, but maybe they don't get it. Maybe they hate it. Maybe they've tried and can't. Maybe they don't want to. Who knows. As for band energy, yes, it's different to what it used to be, but I'd be alarmed if it wasn't, since people change. At my gig they were happy, talking (barely understandably, as usual, at least Matt), energetic, playing well, smiling, having fun. And we paid back. I don't want to hear the money argument on that tbh - if I go to a gig, I want to enjoy the gig, but as soon as I see the band is doing something, it's a synergetic thing rather than a one-way street. Otherwise the cd would do... Maybe a sports analogy will do it - if you're in a big crowd watching a game (which you also paid for!) the best way to help your team is to chant, chant, CHANT. If the game is shit and you as part of the audience are not even trying to support your team you have less justification in complaining of their lacklustre performance later. In football it's even worse with the money imo, the incredible wages those guys get.

Regardless of crowds, setlists, money, whatever: the band do what the band do. They decide the setup, what they play, how they play it, whether they rehearse or not. It's their career, and their attitude and as far as they each personally can, they choose it or let themselves be influenced by circumstances/others/... . I think it's a bit ott to call their integrity off because they didn't fulfill one or several board member's dreams. The board is not the world, not even the Muse world. I'm sure that most of the time, they are, just like most of us in our lives, trying to do the right things at the right time, obviously failing every now and again as we all do, getting back up and carrying on. That doesn't mean they shouldn't take CONSTRUCTIVE criticism (which is given to them, not posted on here where they won't read it anyway ) , but I don't think their agenda is/was to play bland shows to the uS for instance, I think it's something like they're trying to do a good job (you may ask: for whom? The majority of the crowd, probably), get a mediocre response, and feel disheartened. Maybe they could up their professionalism and still try to do the best every night and pull people along, but I also accept that can be pretty hard if nobody's (in relation to crowd size!) reacting. Maybe they did the best they could in that respect and that was it, maybe they didn't, who knows. Of course it would be nice if they admitted mistakes too, where they made them...but we can't force it. If they realise it for themselves, it's good enough, because it should lead to a better outcome next time. Then, it's up to each and every one of the fans to decide whether they like what's on offer and enjoy it, or not. Of course going somewhere after something is announced and not getting pretty exactly that is disappointing, but as soon as information was out there that's kinda off because you have time to prepare. And still, regardless, you choose your own reaction. Like some decided to skip the tour because they didn't like what they'd heard about it so far - that's a decision fans made with their own integrity. Btw, I want old songs too. I want rarities, I want my favourites, I want to see energy and fun stuff going on and enjoy myself. I want long sets with many good songs, as we probably all do. But when I'm at the gig, I know I cannot influence it, so I'll relax and enjoy the gig as I get it. That's in my control. If I'm really miffed about something afterwards (like the short but expensive Loreley gig a few years back) I will try to first figure out what went wrong - that was not the band's fault, coincidentally - and try to ensure criticism gets where it needs to to improve the future. I know doing this on the ongoing tour is not as easy as on that one gig or maybe impossible, but thinking about it from really different perspectives as opposed to sitting in your own hole and not even trying would be a good start. Anyway. I had my drones gig, and I loved it. Despite not getting all the songs I wanted (fat luck when your list is about 50 songs long which I prepared for, not getting them all...) and a few other obstacles, it was a great gig and I enjoyed it thoroughly. :happy: tl;dr this topic is a gigantic negative spiral. Muse are not perfect and they never will be. I enjoyed my gig. I want more songs and rarities but I'd have to get a message through to the band if I wanted that heard.

Nice! The colours create a nice vibe. Wow. Amazing!

This! I like the first and third one a lot, the first one reminds me of a Bob Ross painting Just that you can't see ANY of the trunk of any of the 'happy little' (enormous) trees in the 'foreground' Composition and colours of the third are awesome. Basically perfect photo all around

Exactly, it's not a pissing contest. So, wouldn't it just be the best if they avoided winter in general in all places that on average actually HAVE a winter, regardless of how "bad" people think/data show it is - if it usually gets freezing during a time, and there can be snow, don't tour.