web feature Muse Are Talented Brainwashers

[Hyper]

found here:

 

http://ianisrad.tumblr.com/post/813949457/muse-who-remains-to-resist

 

 

I remember reading about Matt's interest in the brainwashing techniques, do you think that some of Muse's success can be attributed to that?

[Mizutsu]

Stopped reading after "Muse has conquered mainstream popular music". olololol.

[seregon]

I'd read it, but that background is raping my eyes

[syzygy]

:LOL:

 

 

...wait...he's serious?

[L.]

Really interesting... It is not so much about brainwashing techniques than how the band has evolved over the years and how every change cleverly attracted more fans.

 

Most interesting bit for me talking about The Resistance era

 

This is such a drastic change (some would say hypocritical) in what Muse started off preaching it begs to wonder if Matt Bellamy ever listens to the amazing sentiments he preached in the song “Showbiz”.

[Cosmo57]

I, for one, welcome our new Meerkat overlord.

[Trilateral_Symmetry_Com'n.]

Um, no. No more so than the success of any other musician or band could be attributed to their use of brainwashing techniques... or subliminal advertising, or backwards messages, or using Illuminati symbolism in their marketing and lyrics, or....

 

It'd also be a more persuasive argument (or at least be a tad more plausible) had Matt studied brainwashing prior to Muse's first recordings, but that isn't the case either.

 

I hope the OPer isn't simply trolling and steering traffic to his own Tumblr page.

[Linn91]

. "Matt Bellamy is really brainwashing a whole sea of soft minded teenagers into liking Muse"

 

Bhahahah! .. That's hilarious. Background totally destroyed my eyes though.

[Trilateral_Symmetry_Com'n.]

There was a magazine article from a few years ago in which Matt discusses his recently having read a book on brainwashing techniques. Leave aside the question of whether someone who intended to use said techniques in an attempt to manipulate public opinion would ever divulge this; his brief summary of those techniques makes it clear that his understanding of it hinges on the brainwasher's ability to exercise total environmental control over his subject.

 

Do musicians ever get that opportunity? They come closest to that in concert, but even then, the fans are free to leave, so no.

 

The tumblr writer doesn't seem to have any clear understanding of what brainwashing truly entails, confusing its methods with the inclusion of Muse tracks in some movie soundtracks (and this differentiates Muse from almost everyone else how, exactly?) and Muse's use of audience-identifying personal pronouns (like "you" and "I" and "we" -- again, hardly the exclusive province of Matt Bellamy's songwriting!)

 

It's a pathetic hash of an accusation, backed up with no specific evidence pertaining to brainwashing techniques whatsoever. None. This guy manages to make the Illuminati symbol-watchers seem erudite and well-reasoned by comparison!

[Max]

I get what that article is saying and I, to an extent, agree with it entirely. It's not about brainwashing techniques: it's basically an elaborate metaphor.

 

Stopped reading after "Muse has conquered mainstream popular music". olololol.

 

...but it's true.

[L.]

I get what that article is saying and I, to an extent, agree with it entirely. It's not about brainwashing techniques: it's basically an elaborate metaphor.

 

 

 

...but it's true.

 

+1

 

The brainwashing is just an illustration: it doesn't try to prove that Muse has used brainwashing techniques to become successful.

[Mistress]

. "Matt Bellamy is really brainwashing a whole sea of soft minded teenagers into liking Muse"

 

Bhahahah! .. That's hilarious. Background totally destroyed my eyes though.

 

I refuse to be called 'soft minded.' It's more of a toffee sort of texture, so nuuh

 

The background was clearly brainwashing us. Muse, tsk

[CarrieB]

Um I think Muse are just good at what they do, basically.

[Mistress]

If Muse were really, properly brainwashing us then I doubt we'd be into any other music or band. It seems all very silly....tea anyone?

[Hat]

The text isn't about real brainwashing...

[MuseRLegend]

Omg Im confused. The first paragraph was practically the opposite of what Muse are. Maybe not now, but say, a year ago, there were thousands of awful bands way more well known than Muse. They sold out Wembley in 2007, yet ask around on the street, and most people wouldnt know them. Yeah, at a glance the new stuff is more pop, but please, opera, 12 minute symphonies, lyrics about mind control operations in the CIA, thats not mainstream ok. Thats weird. Thats Muse

[Max]

Omg Im confused. The first paragraph was practically the opposite of what Muse are. Maybe not now, but say, a year ago, there were thousands of awful bands way more well known than Muse. They sold out Wembley in 2007, yet ask around on the street, and most people wouldnt know them. Yeah, at a glance the new stuff is more pop, but please, opera, 12 minute symphonies, lyrics about mind control operations in the CIA, thats not mainstream ok. Thats weird. Thats Muse

 

...but they're still mainstream. Songs appearing on TV adverts and film trailers and film soundtracks. Headlining status at major festivals. Number one albums all over the world. They were the first band to sell out the new Wembley Stadium. How is that NOT mainstream?

[Hat]

Omg Im confused. The first paragraph was practically the opposite of what Muse are. Maybe not now, but say, a year ago, there were thousands of awful bands way more well known than Muse. They sold out Wembley in 2007, yet ask around on the street, and most people wouldnt know them. Yeah, at a glance the new stuff is more pop, but please, opera, 12 minute symphonies, lyrics about mind control operations in the CIA, thats not mainstream ok. Thats weird. Thats Muse

It doesn't matter if 3 or 4 songs on their latest album isn't mainstream pop, Muse is still a mainstream band.

 

And please stop this "They made a symphony so they aren't mainstream" talk. Exogenesis is just three songs where CP is the only one that has something even close to "hard for the ears".

[bliss.]

I can't see why some people have problems with muse being mainstream because I think they are mainstream in Europe since Absolution . Mainstream is not just about bad music, they are mainstream and their music is really good, people should accept that at this point of their career

[MuseRLegend]

Im not saying Muse arent mainstream. Im just saying that although a lot of their work appeals to everyone, some of it doesnt. I dont have a problem with Muse being popular or creating more 'popular' style music, but to say they are 'brainwashing' everyone with their popular music isnt quite right. If people wanted brainwashing, theyd go to JLS.

[Trilateral_Symmetry_Com'n.]

Excerpts from the tumblr essay [with iterations of "brainwash" bolded]:

 

What is different about Muse is their ability to be popular. In a more negative phrasing you could say, in their ability to brainwash the masses. Again, just like excellent musicians, there are many people well trained in persuasion techniques who never amass even the slightest amount of followers. So what’s different about Muse? Well it’s the combination of both of these things.

 

These fans liked Muse for the same reasons that the initial fans did but there was more brainwashing involved. There is a shift in sound in these two albums. There is more pop. More synth.

 

What started out as “Muse” in between an equal sign, essentially making Muse equal with their listeners, and the occasional perfume commercial, has turned into full-blown brainwashing. Putting your music in a movie soundtrack is going to automatically make associations in the minds of all of those interested in the movie (a whole hell of a lot of teenagers).

 

The album itself is filled immensely with “we” and “us” and “they” and “them” as if saying that Muse is as ordinary as you. “They will not control us” in bright bold lyrics is projected on to the stage as Matt Bellamy sings and the whole audience chants to them. Matt Bellamy is really brainwashing a whole sea of soft minded teenagers into liking Muse.

 

The hardest part is admitting to being a fan, but also proving to not having been brainwashed, like the majority fans. [sic]

 

I like Muse because they are very talented live performers. I like Muse because they are very talented musicians. I like Muse because they are very talented brainwashers.

 

**********

 

Nope, he means it literally, although he argues for it most ineptly. I think those who argue he's just using brainwashing as a metaphor for becoming more successful are giving him too much credit, due perhaps to the essayist's utter failure to engage with the brainwashing idea seriously, specifically and accurately. I do think he's fairly serious in his intent, although the utter amateurishness of the essay undermines that. Where he does get specific -- i.e., with Muse's turn towards glossier pop stylings, their presence in soundtracks, their finding success generally (as in their inclusion in shopping mall muzak), and Matt's use of pronouns on TR -- are all unspecific to brainwashing proper... and in the case of Muse's growing popularity, constitutes a circular argument.

[Hat]

Im not saying Muse arent mainstream. Im just saying that although a lot of their work appeals to everyone, some of it doesnt. I dont have a problem with Muse being popular or creating more 'popular' style music, but to say they are 'brainwashing' everyone with their popular music isnt quite right. If people wanted brainwashing, theyd go to JLS.

That wasn't what the link said.

[Hat]

Excerpts from the tumblr essay [with iterations of "brainwash" bolded]:

 

What is different about Muse is their ability to be popular. In a more negative phrasing you could say, in their ability to brainwash the masses. Again, just like excellent musicians, there are many people well trained in persuasion techniques who never amass even the slightest amount of followers. So what’s different about Muse? Well it’s the combination of both of these things.

 

These fans liked Muse for the same reasons that the initial fans did but there was more brainwashing involved. There is a shift in sound in these two albums. There is more pop. More synth.

 

What started out as “Muse” in between an equal sign, essentially making Muse equal with their listeners, and the occasional perfume commercial, has turned into full-blown brainwashing. Putting your music in a movie soundtrack is going to automatically make associations in the minds of all of those interested in the movie (a whole hell of a lot of teenagers).

 

The album itself is filled immensely with “we” and “us” and “they” and “them” as if saying that Muse is as ordinary as you. “They will not control us” in bright bold lyrics is projected on to the stage as Matt Bellamy sings and the whole audience chants to them. Matt Bellamy is really brainwashing a whole sea of soft minded teenagers into liking Muse.

 

The hardest part is admitting to being a fan, but also proving to not having been brainwashed, like the majority fans. [sic]

 

I like Muse because they are very talented live performers. I like Muse because they are very talented musicians. I like Muse because they are very talented brainwashers.

 

**********

 

Nope, he means it literally, although he argues for it most ineptly. I think those who argue he's just using brainwashing as a metaphor for becoming more successful are giving him too much credit, due perhaps to the essayist's utter failure to engage with the brainwashing idea seriously, specifically and accurately. I do think he's fairly serious in his intent, although the utter amateurishness of the essay undermines that. Where he does get specific -- i.e., with Muse's turn towards glossier pop stylings, their presence in soundtracks, their finding success generally (as in their inclusion in shopping mall muzak), and Matt's use of pronouns on TR -- are all unspecific to brainwashing proper... and in the case of Muse's growing popularity, constitutes a circular argument.

Yes, he says that Muse uses "us" and "them" to make people relate etc, if you call that literal brainwashing, okay.

[Max]

Im not saying Muse arent mainstream. Im just saying that although a lot of their work appeals to everyone, some of it doesnt. I dont have a problem with Muse being popular or creating more 'popular' style music, but to say they are 'brainwashing' everyone with their popular music isnt quite right. If people wanted brainwashing, theyd go to JLS.

 

But they are not 'brainwashing' people. It's just a metaphor. It's just another way of saying that Muse have moved to a more deliberate pop direction.

 

Anyway...

 

Nope' date=' he means it literally, although he argues for it most ineptly[/quote']No, he doesn't. If he did, he would actually back it up with scientific facts. The only thing I will say is that he uses the word 'brainstorming' perhaps a bit too much. Other alternatives are available.

 

I think those who argue he's just using brainwashing as a metaphor for becoming more successful are giving him too much credit, due perhaps to the essayist's utter failure to engage with the brainwashing idea seriously, specifically and accurately.

Or it's because he's deliberately toying with the idea of brainwashing. It's his way of adding colour and character to his own argument and you'll find that a lot of professional writers do this a lot of the time.

 

I do think he's fairly serious in his intent, although the utter amateurishness of the essay undermines that.

Of course it's amateur, he isn't a professional writer. That doesn't correlate with his own writing ability though.

 

Where he does get specific -- i.e., with Muse's turn towards glossier pop stylings, their presence in soundtracks, their finding success generally (as in their inclusion in shopping mall muzak), and Matt's use of pronouns on TR -- are all unspecific to brainwashing proper... and in the case of Muse's growing popularity, constitutes a circular argument.

That's not circular reasoning, that's called giving examples to back up an argument.

[Trilateral_Symmetry_Com'n.]

Yes, he says that Muse uses "us" and "them" to make people relate etc, if you call that literal brainwashing, okay.

 

I don't; he does. I pointed out in my second post that it's hardly original to use personal pronouns in song lyrics.

 

[snip]

That's not circular reasoning, that's called giving examples to back up an argument.

 

Part of the tumblr essayist's argument runs thusly: Muse is popular 'cause they've used brainwashing techniques. And some of the evidence of this is their growing popularity everywhere... even in movie soundtracks... and shopping malls! (And no, he wasn't citing soundtracks and mall-muzak as evidence of their growing popularity, but as examples of "brainwashing" (whatever he means by that exactly) -- apparently, mere repeated exposure to a pop song constitutes at least a low-level form of brainwashing to this guy.

 

That's a circular (and really stupid) argument, ignoring how people resist pop-music brainwashing all the time... simply by persisting disliking popular songs they've heard many times!