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Neil.

Dear Niall

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Here, I made a wallpaper. Complete with Helvetica and horrible placement.

 

http://i.imgur.com/SkotaIH.jpg

:LOL:

That is so disgustingly hipster than I know have to look through all of Dave's posts and start writing a script.

 

We can make a courtroom drama staring Johnny Vegas as me :LOL:

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We can make a courtroom drama staring Johnny Vegas as me :LOL:

 

And Mel Gibson can play Alex.

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I do think a lot of this whole situation falls on Alex's own shoulders. It's not like it hasn't been stated on numerous occasions that using the word 'gay' in any manner that isn't obviously referring directly to someone's sexuality in a genuine, non-offensive way will lead to warnings, infractions and bans.

 

Context doesn't really come into it when we're talking about the internet because it's impossible to tell when someone's being serious or when someone's joking by reading what they type.

 

That is actually something I think mods need to work on though. Trying to focus more on the context of a comment might actually result in less incidents like this one although using the term gay in that manner is pretty stupid given the history of people who have used it on these forums.

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Point of order here, and I am loathe to get involved in this for a number of reasons. But the fact that we are having this argument over a term which was not used pointedly as an attempt to harm or offend, while we have a notable member who has just returned from a 2 week ban for one of the most disgusting moments I have personally seen on the board (and I include the treatment Lauren got at te start of the chizzle debacle when folk jumped on her like a pack of rabid animals) is something that I personally find more reprehensible than any lightly thrown about (and let us be totally and utterly frank, it is lightly thrown, albeit not correctly) term. I think for some, that may be the issue. Yes, he could have used any other number of words in the dictionary, however, if we are reaching the point where we are applying rules without any real regard for common sense, then I despair for what will become of this place as a community.

 

I am not saying it is correct to throw about terms such as gay, retard, spaz (the latter two of which I have been known to say despite being a part of a the group who would be targeted with such terms) or any other number of terms. What I am saying is that a far greater weight should be given to context where these terms have been used. If the rule is to be enforced with the weight it is, then this is an absolute necessity.

 

To work off of the pub analogy that's been chucked about, and which is a strong one, a conversation amongst friends in a pub (which is what the exchange concerned appears to be analogous to) is an entirely different matter to that same group screaming homophobic, racist or otherwise distasteful terms across the place. To an extent, yes, they are in a public environment, but they are in a private subset. The entire thing is very, very reminiscent of the Paul Chambers twitter case that was all over the place not too long ago.

 

In language and social interaction, context is everything. We cannot have rules, based on language which are ignorant of context, to do so is frankly, absurd and is why I've tended to get involved in these arguments in the past

Edited by Ross

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Context doesn't really come into it when we're talking about the internet because it's impossible to tell when someone's being serious or when someone's joking by reading what they type.

 

Context is everything. If someone was simply shown Alex's post only then it might be difficult to see if he was serious or not. But when you bring in the posts leading up to it and Alex's general behavior over the past few weeks then you can easily see that he was joking.

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I go to bed and this happens. You boys should really

tumblr_mghe9eIkIG1qi0xbho1_500_large.gif

 

Night everyone, gay-bash again and I'll personally glass you

 

x

 

Might I add that threatening with physical violence is no way to educate people.

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Gorker only getting two weeks for his disgusting display in L&R is beyond dumb.

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Their fault.

 

And yes, sometimes it's hard to detect but this time it wasn't.

"if you're offended, it's your fault."

 

Even if it is, and even if it's decided by the best grand jury of the entire world that any upset caused is all down to the person who's offended by the use of a word, the person upset is still always forever going to think the person who used the word is a massive asshole. And tis the job of the authority of the establishment to minimise asshole behaviour for the comfort of others.

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Does this mean we can't say 'gay' when we mean 'happy'? As in having a gay old time?

 

Oh, and cunt = vagina, which makes all use of the word derogatory towards women. So you can't argue that cunt good - gay bad.

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Gorker only getting two weeks for his disgusting display in L&R is beyond dumb.

 

But he didn't use the g-word.

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Deciding for Alex that he was trying to offend someone would be like me reporting to the police some guys speaking a foreign language near me, because I thought they were talking about killing me, while they were simply talking about something completely innocent. You can't decide other people's intents.

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No one uses the word gay to mean happy this side of 1970. Cunt generally isn't seen as misogynistic no more than dick is seen as misandrous.

 

I haven't read this thread but I can assume it's largely LGBTQ people saying why it's not okay and straight people telling them why they're wrong. To use 2013's most annoying phrase, check your privilege. If the plethora of articles you can find by googling "that's so gay" explaining why it is bad and the real effects of its proliferation has on LGBT people don't convince you then you're a lost cause.

 

I should point out that the ban wasn't for a single post, and not the post in question which I think people have been quoting, of course, but was for multiple antagonistic posts across more than one thread, iirc.

 

BOD, while your post was obviously ironic please don't undermine your points with hollow threats of violence.

 

The fact this whole conversation exists is ridiculous. It isn't tenable to host such a conversation every single time someone gets banned and their besties come complaining as a matter of practicality.

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No one uses the word gay to mean happy this side of 1970.

.

 

I might, and it wouldn't be wrong for me to do so.

 

Cunt generally isn't seen as misogynistic no more than dick is seen as misandrous.

.

 

To paraphrase you:

 

I can assume it's largely people with dicks saying why it's not okay and people without telling them why they're wrong. And vice versa.

.

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Oh, and cunt = vagina, which makes all use of the word derogatory towards women.

Unless you're actually talking about a vagina?

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I don't follow.

 

You can't decide that 'gay' is offensive for all gay people, but cunt isn't offensive to people with vaginas.

 

Or that no one uses 'gay' in the original meaning.

 

If I went about the forums reporting all people who call other people 'dicks', would you do anything about it?

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"if you're offended, it's your fault."

 

Their fault if they don't give a crap about context, because it's a dumb thing to do.

 

I still don't get why the intent for you guys matters less than the word used. It's a word. Just a word.

 

BOD, while your post was obviously ironic please don't undermine your points with hollow threats of violence.

 

Oh so his post was obviously ironic! I'm glad you guys are so good at detecting irony.

 

Oh wait.

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Comparison isn't shit; I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.

 

Yes, so stop holding Alex responsible for what you understood instead of what he said.

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You can't decide that 'gay' is offensive for all gay people, but cunt isn't offensive to people with vaginas.

 

Or that no one uses 'gay' in the original meaning.

 

If I went about the forums reporting all people who call other people 'dicks', would you do anything about it?

 

A very tenuous and failed analogy. It makes no sense. No group of people identifies as "cunt". People with vaginas are generally "women" or "female", not "cunts". Maybe some people take offense at the word for the particular set of genitals they have being co opted to use as pejoratives but it isn't common and I've never seen it before. No one identifies as dicks, either.

 

Maybe some people still use gay to mean happy, but dictionaries usually list that meaning as dated or obsolete, and you would typically be misunderstood using gay to mean "happy". God knows how many pages of google results one would have to get through to get to that meaning being used on a website.

 

Oh so his post was obviously ironic! I'm glad you guys are so good at detecting irony.

 

Oh wait.

 

Usually we are. Sometimes it isn't obvious. If you're going to accuse us of being favourist to BOD of all people, lol.

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