forevermusic Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) I'm still so mad about Guitar Center and the Mayan that I pay shipping higher than the price of what I'm ordering and wait a week to buy shit from other places online, or drive like an hour somewhere, than go into their stores... Muse's logic when it comes to the US is something I cannot comprehend. They are obviously trying to draw crowds based on "big gig spectacle" and their reputation as "best live act" which leads to them dragging their oversized stage shows to an area that increasingly cannot support them, talk about losing money or breaking even on the tour, talk about wanting to not short US fans on the stage shows... and then give us short, often piss-poor (in contrast to other areas) setlists, cut out huge areas of the country and give us basically a micro-tour, and sometimes seem put out when shows don't sell as well and crowds aren't as enthusiastic. Meanwhile, the number of people who bought tickets for one of at least three of these 360 gigs so far probably would have Hunger Gamesed each other to go to the Psycho Tour... 3 or 4 rare songs is impressive. We're not asking for much... We would be willing to consider the inclusion of songs like Map, or even Bliss, AP, and CE as long as they are not rotated with insulting things like FG and Resistance. Lack of obstructed view seating/standing would also be a bonus. But seriously, the atmosphere of seeing the band in venues like that seems more appealing to more fans than just us here; how many tickets would the Webster had sold if it were larger, and how would that compare to the sales for the 360 tour in NY, I wonder? I don't know if the whole thing of the US always getting micro-tours is true, given The Resistance and 2nd Law legs that had around 40-50 gigs, which is about the same level as most acts, and its only this tour when its gone to a micro-level. They did seem to hit the glass ceiling when their gigs got the same numbers on the two tours, hence why I was sure they'd chop out a few cities, although granted I thought it might be a few areas where the numbers seemed redundant (3 in Ohio and Florida on T2L seemed a bit much), and not quite to the extent they went for. I thought it was a common consensus from music fans that US crowds weren't as lively as European or South American crowds, ehdunno. Maybe it'll get better when it gets LA, but a lot of the time, it looks like people are on their phones. Least that's judging by YouTube... which is part of the malaise given those people are filming it on their fucking phones. The setlists thing seems pretty long-running by now. I do recall The Resistance Tour having unremarkable setlists for everyone (Japan/SK aside) until the European 2010 summer tour saw some oldies bought back, although that was hilariously uneven (T in the Park/Oxegen in particular). Who knows. 3 or 4 songs in a 15 song set is obviously more than average for Muse but it's not really all that spectacular in the grand scheme of things. The majority of the set was pretty standard. I can't say I'm that sure it was all standards, although in fairness, I failed to get Hysteria and Stockholm on all 3 of their 2nd Law dates so can say it was technically something I hadn't seen in 3 1/2 years of Muse gig going. I'm also the aberration I guess, given I went Brighton and we got 2 rarities (The Groove and Uno), with MOTP (seen it 3 times before, although this version was one of the best I've seen) and the live debut of Dead Inside taking the other slots. Would rather have been to Newport or Exeter, which would've at least compensated for the lackluster Uprising (and that's even before Matt's 'hand's free' slot, as its noted on sets). Edited December 11, 2015 by forevermusic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander DeLarge Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 a 17 song set can be really good, when they're not playing literally every hit they've ever had, obviously 21 would be better, but you could make a really strong set with that amount of material to work with (if you restructured it quite a bit) I'm getting to the point where I don't even want them to continue making new music, because if they do another Resistance album, we're fucked. They won't have room to play anything but the hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) I didn't say we always got a micro-tour, but we certainly did this time. After the last tour where the most of the "we break even" or "we lose money" talk happened, instead of scaling back the set or the venue size, they pretty drastically scaled back the dates on the tour. I feel like that's the complete wrong attitude to have towards touring the US. The album wasn't promoted much, didn't have staying power over here, and now they're skipping big areas of the country, allowing themselves to be further forgotten about. No TV shows, nothing. tbf, the shows are selling fairly decently. also, i wonder if the fact that both the band and fan base have aged a bit has anything to do with level of enthusiasm... i don't follow. is there an appreciable amount of obstructed viewing with this stage? i haven't observed much, if any... again, i'm having a hard time following. are you suggesting that they go back to playing venues of about 4-5K? also, the word on the street is that muse just isn't too keen on playing gigs of 2K or fewer anymore; in fact, i hear they kinda hate that arrangement these days. did you get a chance to see them back in 2004-ish when they finally made it over to the states? those were the days... America always gets shafted, because Muse still aren't that big in America. The band probably thinks other rare/older songs wouldn't be received well, and rightfully so. I feel like if they toured smaller venues here, they'd sell out way quicker and probably have a better audience where they can pull out a few oldies and whatnot. The fact we are getting Bliss/Citizen Erased and AP on this tour is a treat. (Much like RBS and Sunburn last tours) Yes, actually, I'm saying they should play smaller venues in the US (and again they did the complete opposite, but increasing the number of tickets to be sold in arenas.) Matt's actually said, multiple times, that they LIKE doing smaller venues, but their popularity prevents it. Which is as true as ever in many countries, but they had a great opportunity to do this time in the US. The upper tiers aren't selling out at many of these gigs, and at some, the first tier near the points of the arrows aren't selling. Last night, apparently, people were relocated from the 2nd tier to the 1st tier points so they could close off the upper area. It isn't possible to see the entire stage show from the very ends, as the curtains follow the length of the catwalk. It's probably not terrible, but I would assume people picked the upper tier instead of the 1st because they were aware of that, so it's concerning if they had to move. And, whether or not their audience here is "old" (which, with Madness being an 'adult alternative' hit, could have been true) US crowds aren't as active as other areas, for the most part, for sure. However, I have to admit as far as singing along and being "into it" Muse gigs have ranked amongst the low end, I've noticed. I blame some of that on them drawing in people with the promise of "best show on earth" stage shows, and having people go to see the spectacle even without knowing songs, which is again why I'm a bit conflicted about them relying so heavily on that sort of thing here. But, if that's the sort of person who's at the show, MOST of the songs would be foreign to them, other than the ones that hit US radio big, so still, why NOT play a few songs to cater to people who actually like the band and know the songs? And concerned what any possible future tours/albums could look like in the US. Edited December 11, 2015 by SerpentSatellite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Museic Syndrome Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 a 17 song set can be really good, when they're not playing literally every hit they've ever had, obviously 21 would be better, but you could make a really strong set with that amount of material to work with (if you restructured it quite a bit) I'm getting to the point where I don't even want them to continue making new music, because if they do another Resistance album, we're fucked. They won't have room to play anything but the hits. The Rock Werchter gig was 18 songs and I was out of my mind by how great the setlist was. Varied as well. Yes, y'all can hate me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogles. Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The Rock Werchter gig was 18 songs and I was out of my mind by how great the setlist was. Varied as well. Yes, y'all can hate me now. I thought it was pretty much unanimous that that set was an example of how to do things right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander DeLarge Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The Rock Werchter gig was 18 songs and I was out of my mind by how great the setlist was. Varied as well. Yes, y'all can hate me now. No one's gonna hate you for that, that set was better than every single gig of the arena tour so far. This should have been used as the template for the arenas. http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/muse/2015/werchterpark-werchter-belgium-3bf6bca0.html That's with two redundant songs too (Madness/DI & Starlight/Mercy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 It was a great set, and super tight. Add in a couple more Drones songs, and it would have been perfect for the arena gigs, and sadly what I was hoping for. Needing to take time off the stage to set up sensors for visuals was the opposite of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Museic Syndrome Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Yeah the hate part was a joke I completely agree that I was hoping the arena tour would be an extension of that setlist... Even though I like most of today's staples it is such a snooze fest, especially from the middle... The thing I don't get though - Drones is a dark and mostly heavy album, why make the tour so light and...poppy?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I truly believe they think that's what the majority of the audience wants, and is more accessible to casual concert goers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander DeLarge Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) I truly believe they think that's what the majority of the audience wants, and is more accessible to casual concert goers. Meanwhile Knights of Cydonia and Stockholm Syndrome/NB got the best reactions of the tour last time and at festivals. Knights of Cydonia was the only song that got the crowd going the other night I saw them. People really got into the Apocalypse Please clapping intro too Maybe The Globalist is their "makeup to the hardcore fans" for the rest of the set, but they shouldn't have to even think that way about playing their own material. It's just mind boggling to think that this was a conscious decision. Rather than building up a hardcore audience that knows the deep cuts and every b-side as you see with Nine Inch Nails or Radiohead, we're finding difficulty hearing anything that wasn't on top 100 pop or top 40 alt rock Edited December 11, 2015 by Alexander DeLarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I agree with KoC and even SS getting great reactions on previous arena tours, but Starlight and Madness completely buried them, as far as the crowd getting riled up. But hell, Bellamy writes the setlists, and his eyes are closed for most of the gig, so what does he know? It is what baffles me, though. They completely say one thing and do another. They like the atmosphere and the energy of a smaller crowd that knows them better, they talk about how big shows are hard to interact with and they lose the intimacy of playing to people, and they seem to really like playing different songs, but then they can't wait to top themselves with gargantuan stage shows even in a country that would be *perfect* for the environment they claim to love playing to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becca Of Cydonia Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I agree with all the posts that Map is the perfect single that keeps the 'hardcore' fans happy. It's one of my favourites by them. And surely Map is more well known that AP? And I know it's been said before, but seriously AP/FG rotation? Are they guessing which nights have the 'real' fans and the casual goers? Or do they think both songs are equally good? I was always under the impression that they (rarely) checked the board? I'm sure I read someone say that on here but I could have made that up. I'm kind of regretting forking out for Birmingham as well as Manchester. As much as I hope the sets get better, it's highly unfair on the gigs so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyjackk Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I agree with all the posts that Map is the perfect single that keeps the 'hardcore' fans happy. It's one of my favourites by them. And surely Map is more well known that AP? And I know it's been said before, but seriously AP/FG rotation? Are they guessing which nights have the 'real' fans and the casual goers? Or do they think both songs are equally good? I was always under the impression that they (rarely) checked the board? I'm sure I read someone say that on here but I could have made that up. . I guess the idea of playing AP over Map is that they can kill two birds with one stone - a song that hadn't been played the last two tours and a piano song that's actually dark and wanting to be heard probably the second one to be honest lolz yeah they very rarely check it these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 iirc, when they used to check it, they just bitched about it anyways. It's not like they're unaware of what songs are popular, board reading or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunge Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 This would do nicely and keep everyone happy, I'm sure. Psycho Map Of The Problematique Dead Inside Bliss (Ext.) / Plug In Baby Isolated System The Handler Hysteria Supermassive Black Hole Assassin (Ext.) / New Born Citizen Erased Apocalypse Please Uprising [JFK] + Defector Revolt Starlight Time Is Running Out Reapers ----- The Globalist ----- Mercy Dealer's Choice Knights Of Cydonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forevermusic Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Pretty sure Dom has said they check the boards from time to time as recently as this year, although I wouldn't have thought it was on that frequent a basis. I merely recall Bliss being "the messageboard's song" back in 2010, or "from the bloody messageboard" as Matt once put it. Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 This would do nicely and keep everyone happy, I'm sure. Psycho Map Of The Problematique Dead Inside Bliss (Ext.) / Plug In Baby Isolated System The Handler Hysteria Supermassive Black Hole Assassin (Ext.) / New Born Citizen Erased Apocalypse Please Uprising [JFK] + Defector Revolt Starlight Time Is Running Out Reapers ----- The Globalist ----- Mercy Dealer's Choice Knights Of Cydonia Hysteria/SS (or just SS) and voila. We're painfully easy to please, Muse. Why make it so damn hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forevermusic Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I don't particularly like the sound of an Assassin/New Born rotation, given getting NB instead of SS at the O2 gig in 2012 when that was a rotation annoyed me, and that was before a performance where it was outshone by the Headup outro riff at the end. Maybe Assassin or Dead Star rotation, even if I has seen that second one twice. Rest would be an improvement though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) I agree with all the posts that Map is the perfect single that keeps the 'hardcore' fans happy. It's one of my favourites by them. And surely Map is more well known that AP? I don't particularly like the sound of an Assassin/New Born rotation, given getting NB instead of SS at the O2 gig in 2012 when that was a rotation annoyed me, and that was before a performance where it was outshone by the Headup outro riff at the end. Maybe Assassin or Dead Star rotation, even if I has seen that second one twice. Rest would be an improvement though. Yeah, New Born would be better rotated with CE imo. I'd be down with an Assassin/Dead Star slot too. Edited December 11, 2015 by Jobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becca Of Cydonia Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I would be gutted if I got PIB over Bliss but I'd take it for the rest of the set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonDecolongon Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Saw them yesterday here in Vancouver......great atmosphere but I was let down that they didn't play more songs from Oos or Absolution. I know its a Drones tour, but when I saw the Chili Peppers they played enough songs to please all fans. They only played Time is Running Out...I was expecting at least Hysteria to be thrown in there. They cock teased Oos with Bliss, and they didn't even play New Born..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I would be gutted if I got PIB over Bliss but I'd take it for the rest of the set. Well, yeah... that's why I'm not terribly fond of rotations, tbh. Especially now that this tour's eliminated the ability for a lot of us to do back to back shows, potentially. And to the person above me... I cannot see New Born being preferable to Bliss in any way. I'd be so fucking happy to see Bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regilistic Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I'd only prefer seeing New Born over Bliss if it was played at full tempo and w/ Matt playing the proper intro. Anything like the last tour and i'd be miffed. Especially if I got PiB/ T2L New born over Assassin/Bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 They cock teased Oos with Bliss, and they didn't even play New Born..... How is Bliss a tease for Origin when it's...from Origin? waaat (New Born's rare at this point btw, think it's only been played a few times this year and hasn't popped up on this tour yet at all) And to the person above me... I cannot see New Born being preferable to Bliss in any way. I'd be so fucking happy to see Bliss. New Born's been mega when it's been played this year to be fair, better than it's been for years. Before, Bliss was definitely better but I don't think I could really separate the two now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 It's still not as tragic as Feeling Good over AP or Resistance over anything it's been rotated with this tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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