Buxomflirter Queef Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 A woman who didn't read 50 Shades of Grey. Interesting... I have the audiobook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chagi Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Bitch please, enter me... Can I enter you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaking Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Can I enter you? Enter me... Take him, I'm innocent! Sidebar: Does posting visitor message on my own profile make me look popular? That made me laugh so hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chagi Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Take him, I'm innocent! I would, but HE'S STANDING IN THE WINDOW HOLDING A HUMAN HEAD That made me laugh so hard. Whatever it takes to please you dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopix Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 A woman who didn't read 50 Shades of Grey. Interesting... A rare breed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-FutureStar- Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Do you reckon they're filming all this stuff for the Battersea Power Station gig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foldingstars Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Do you reckon they're filming all this stuff for the Battersea Power Station gig? Not just for it. It's way too much effort for one show. They might use the footage for it and then use it again as live visuals for the tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kati Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Just for anyone who still hasn't seen the original video that Muse used in the Unsustainable video. Here you can even see what exactly they are running from. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArUFLpvIfLc&feature=plcp Thank you, I watched it now and indeed there is something they are running from. Eh, could that thing be something like overdefining people? It looks like CAD model, and that goes maybe together with some other themes in this discussion. But I'm not sure whether people making these clips even think that "something" as a priority, rather how everything looks. You should have done, it was a good read, I'd read again. Well thank you Yeah twelve sentences is pretty shocking. Possibly only accessible to those with PhDs. I wonder this every single day. The internet has completely ruined our civilization... I also don't know why you'd go to any "discussion" thread, and expect everyone to write in single sentences... The T2L thread isn't filled with long posts... it's filled with single sentences about other bands, smilies, etc. I'd rather read a few long posts, but everyone is entitled, etc. I guess we are old fashioned in the world of twitter and SMS. Personally I also like to read longer texts with more thought. I don't mind metaphors and stuff but I was hoping that the theme to the album was a little more meaningful than a kind of Knights of Cydonia, sci fi fantasy. Though looking at Tom's recent tweet, I'm not so sure. Yep, it might well be that the video content isn't really that coherent with the album themes. But I would actually assume that Muse would have learned more about videos by now and would be able to make them more meaningful. After all, I remember Matt telling that there was an idea even in the TR tour stage setup (getting out of their tower prisons) but I doubt anyone understood it without explanation, and they might slowly learn to do the stuff clearer. Which is just a load of nonsense. The brain isn't isolated in any sense. The blood stream exists and consciousness functions on sensory input. So you didn't want to reply me directly? I already wrote that the sensoric input is vulnerable and can be misleading. Plain examples would be loss of any of the senses, but even when senses are correct the connection to consciousness is questionable. We think we live in one world where we can understand other people by simply their linquistic output, but there are all sorts of problems in the system, from misunderstandings to deliberate lying. The sensoric input can also be manipulated - I suppose you know Matrix films (btw about the same idea was presented much earlier in a scifi literature, but can't remember whether it was Asimov or Heinlein) but there are much simpler tricks like drugs or optical illusions. So, although of course brain is connected to the biological system of the body, the conscious mind is only weakly connected to the other conscious minds. It's an old idea, actually, can't believe you don't accept the concept. What the hell as the science of studying the system that describes the exchange of things with value got to do with social values? Why has one facet of human behaviour become an argument about applying a general tool like science to a real world system> Geez, maybe because the economical processes have severe effects on the society? And in all societies non-rational, tradition based values have had effect on economy (well I haven't studied all societies, can you think of a society where social values have no effect on economy? That would be a society without politics, mind you). Btw I recently saw a review of a book that criticises the efforts to use mathematical tools in economic sciences. Not really because there would be something wrong with mathematical tools, but because the scientists are not even aware of all factors and mechanisms on qualitative level - as a physicist you might have heard "garbage in garbage out". A lot of far-reaching, heavy weight political-economical decisions are made based on science, that to someone working in the "easy" field of classical physics seems more like a religion than science. Because the thing is scientific explanations of who we are can actually make us think that that is what our species is like and that is what we have to be like if we want to fit in. So if it doesn't feel quite right but we can't quite understand why, or know whether we are the only one for whom it doesn't feel right, plus we don't quite know what's missing or how to make it better, then I suppose it could feel like we are isolated in our brains, outsiders, who are alien to our environment. I thought this has something to do with the original video Gohenko posted. I think you are talking about the simplified models especially in economical sciences? Like that we are supposed to maximise own advantage, and all decisions are rational? The connection to the video in my mind is that indeed such models are too simplified, in the same way simplified as a computer model often is (you can see in the video how the person is covered with different amounts of facets and with just a few looses completely his/her original shape). But I have no idea how this connects with unsustainable economical growth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlodrak Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I think the brain imagery is carrying on with the entropy concept saying that if an individual brain (being a person, not literally the brain) is left as an isolated system (no interaction between others) then they will in turn become unsustainable and gradually become useless, y'know? Basically like Roger Waters' the wall idea. But of course this is all speculation, what do I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaking Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thank you, I watched it now and indeed there is something they are running from. Eh, could that thing be something like overdefining people? It looks like CAD model, and that goes maybe together with some other themes in this discussion. But I'm not sure whether people making these clips even think that "something" as a priority, rather how everything looks. Well thank you I guess we are old fashioned in the world of twitter and SMS. Personally I also like to read longer texts with more thought. Yep, it might well be that the video content isn't really that coherent with the album themes. But I would actually assume that Muse would have learned more about videos by now and would be able to make them more meaningful. After all, I remember Matt telling that there was an idea even in the TR tour stage setup (getting out of their tower prisons) but I doubt anyone understood it without explanation, and they might slowly learn to do the stuff clearer. So you didn't want to reply me directly? I already wrote that the sensoric input is vulnerable and can be misleading. Plain examples would be loss of any of the senses, but even when senses are correct the connection to consciousness is questionable. We think we live in one world where we can understand other people by simply their linquistic output, but there are all sorts of problems in the system, from misunderstandings to deliberate lying. The sensoric input can also be manipulated - I suppose you know Matrix films (btw about the same idea was presented much earlier in a scifi literature, but can't remember whether it was Asimov or Heinlein) but there are much simpler tricks like drugs or optical illusions. So, although of course brain is connected to the biological system of the body, the conscious mind is only weakly connected to the other conscious minds. It's an old idea, actually, can't believe you don't accept the concept. Geez, maybe because the economical processes have severe effects on the society? And in all societies non-rational, tradition based values have had effect on economy (well I haven't studied all societies, can you think of a society where social values have no effect on economy? That would be a society without politics, mind you). Btw I recently saw a review of a book that criticises the efforts to use mathematical tools in economic sciences. Not really because there would be something wrong with mathematical tools, but because the scientists are not even aware of all factors and mechanisms on qualitative level - as a physicist you might have heard "garbage in garbage out". A lot of far-reaching, heavy weight political-economical decisions are made based on science, that to someone working in the "easy" field of classical physics seems more like a religion than science. I thought this has something to do with the original video Gohenko posted. I think you are talking about the simplified models especially in economical sciences? Like that we are supposed to maximise own advantage, and all decisions are rational? The connection to the video in my mind is that indeed such models are too simplified, in the same way simplified as a computer model often is (you can see in the video how the person is covered with different amounts of facets and with just a few looses completely his/her original shape). But I have no idea how this connects with unsustainable economical growth tsau;dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kati Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I try to avoid badly written nonsense and manage perfectly fine. In fact, I'm quite happy not to have read 50 Shades of Grey or theories about music videos. Forgot to comment on this... I'm very flattered you assimilate my tl;dr posts with a best-seller novels After all I'm painfully aware that even without language problems my scientific background hasn't exactly taught me to write well-flowing, entertaining texts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaking Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Forgot to comment on this... I'm very flattered you assimilate my tl;dr posts with a best-seller novels After all I'm painfully aware that even without language problems my scientific background hasn't exactly taught me to write well-flowing, entertaining texts Wait... you aren't the person who wrote 50 Shades of Gray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Eh. I really don't actually care about anything in this thread. I have too little time to devote to actual science to talk at lengths about junk science on the muse messageboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_ Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Thank you, I watched it now and indeed there is something they are running from. Eh, could that thing be something like overdefining people? It looks like CAD model, and that goes maybe together with some other themes in this discussion. But I'm not sure whether people making these clips even think that "something" as a priority, rather how everything looks. Well thank you I guess we are old fashioned in the world of twitter and SMS. Personally I also like to read longer texts with more thought. Yep, it might well be that the video content isn't really that coherent with the album themes. But I would actually assume that Muse would have learned more about videos by now and would be able to make them more meaningful. After all, I remember Matt telling that there was an idea even in the TR tour stage setup (getting out of their tower prisons) but I doubt anyone understood it without explanation, and they might slowly learn to do the stuff clearer. So you didn't want to reply me directly? I already wrote that the sensoric input is vulnerable and can be misleading. Plain examples would be loss of any of the senses, but even when senses are correct the connection to consciousness is questionable. We think we live in one world where we can understand other people by simply their linquistic output, but there are all sorts of problems in the system, from misunderstandings to deliberate lying. The sensoric input can also be manipulated - I suppose you know Matrix films (btw about the same idea was presented much earlier in a scifi literature, but can't remember whether it was Asimov or Heinlein) but there are much simpler tricks like drugs or optical illusions. So, although of course brain is connected to the biological system of the body, the conscious mind is only weakly connected to the other conscious minds. It's an old idea, actually, can't believe you don't accept the concept. Geez, maybe because the economical processes have severe effects on the society? And in all societies non-rational, tradition based values have had effect on economy (well I haven't studied all societies, can you think of a society where social values have no effect on economy? That would be a society without politics, mind you). Btw I recently saw a review of a book that criticises the efforts to use mathematical tools in economic sciences. Not really because there would be something wrong with mathematical tools, but because the scientists are not even aware of all factors and mechanisms on qualitative level - as a physicist you might have heard "garbage in garbage out". A lot of far-reaching, heavy weight political-economical decisions are made based on science, that to someone working in the "easy" field of classical physics seems more like a religion than science. I thought this has something to do with the original video Gohenko posted. I think you are talking about the simplified models especially in economical sciences? Like that we are supposed to maximise own advantage, and all decisions are rational? The connection to the video in my mind is that indeed such models are too simplified, in the same way simplified as a computer model often is (you can see in the video how the person is covered with different amounts of facets and with just a few looses completely his/her original shape). But I have no idea how this connects with unsustainable economical growth The difficult situation when it's like you posted a picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxomflirter Queef Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Forgot to comment on this... I'm very flattered you assimilate my tl;dr posts with a best-seller novels After all I'm painfully aware that even without language problems my scientific background hasn't exactly taught me to write well-flowing, entertaining texts Wait, who said I associate your badly written tl;dr posts with a badly written best-selling novel? I was replying to Carrie.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Something else on the video: Are the blue things in the beginning of the video neurons? Brain cells? There are clearly some pictures of brain (tomography or something) and it lead me to the idea that in a way each persons brain is an isolated system. Yes there are ways to communicate with the environment, but senses are vulnerable and imperfect, and language, speech or written text, is also very limited way of communication. I thought that might the personal aspect of the isolated system theme, the ultimate loneliness of each person. ie "The brain is an isolated system. Well...it isn't really, but still." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarrieB Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I thought this has something to do with the original video Gohenko posted. I think you are talking about the simplified models especially in economical sciences? Like that we are supposed to maximise own advantage, and all decisions are rational? The connection to the video in my mind is that indeed such models are too simplified, in the same way simplified as a computer model often is (you can see in the video how the person is covered with different amounts of facets and with just a few looses completely his/her original shape). But I have no idea how this connects with unsustainable economical growth [Warning and NB: Keep away from this post tl:dr people, or bleach your brains or something, when you see lots of words, or you might have the inablity to control your hands and have to say tl:dr yet again. I also acknowledge that there will probably be someone who will pick apart what I am saying. These are just thoughts, not statements of fact] You are partly right, but no I wasn't referring to the original video, but to the Unsustainable video and kind of branching out the ideas in the video. Science is itself a social construction and it socially constructs. This is particularly relevant to the social sciences but also the physical sciences. We interpret information within the confines of what our understanding is in the first place. The famous, we might think there are only white swans if we have never seen a black swan. We also have norms of interpretation which are arbitrary. Take stuff like bell curves which are more about being average than normality or statistical probability. Thus I wondered in that kind of context whether the Unsustainable video was a reference to how simplistic models on which social systems are created cause problems when they conflict with natural inclinations. (That can be stretched to include beneficial social norms, but I doubt that is the intention). At the beginning there are neurones and the brain on a background of written charts and figures. That may simply be meant to be a representation of human progress or scientific progress, but the video and the song also involves a lot of conflict, represented by the discord of the "dubstep" in the music and the scenes of the economic system not working. I was thinking that that could be a representation of the ill fit between systems and nature when the systems are based on false assumptions of what nature and human nature is. Nothing to do with the graphics in the other video. I think that Muse using a mix of scientific theories taken from the physical sciences and concepts which are not to do with theories that have been explicitly mapped out in the physical sciences are causing some confusion. Thus on commenting on what you were saying about the brain being an isolated system, I was thinking more in terms of you suggesting it as an artistic concept loosely related to physical reality. Then really we're talking more in terms of psychology, emotions and feelings than whether or not the brain is closed off from outside stimulus (I think you and Niall are coming from different perspectives though I can see the logic in both perspectives). Erm I think moving on from Unsustainable your ideas of the brain being an isolated system and relating this to loneliness because as you say regardless of the physical reality of the brain reacting to outside stimulus, none of us knows what it feels like to have the same brain as another person. And none of us knows what is really going on in the brain of another person. What that person is thinking, feeling etc. We can only make an interpretation based on the information they give us. This made me think about the track that is supposed to be about alienation which we haven't heard yet. Is it Big Freeze? Well alienation and isolation are perhaps in some cases linked. There can be alienation in a political sense, such as Marx talking about capitalist systems producing alienation and linked to that in a personal sense. We may be a person who feels lonely because our experiences of people's reactions to us make us assume that we don't think in the same way as other people. In the case of social norms, if everyone is thinking that but behaving in accordance to the norms, we are getting a situation where we are all our own worst enemies fitting into systems that no one really feels quite right about. The alternative being rebelling against those systems. And before someone says, I'm not saying that IS the case, that everyone is reflecting on their own situations in that way or feeling that way. I am saying it is a concept and I'm possibly thinking beyond what the album is about. Personally, because I think this has been said on here somewhere, I have no problem with Matt using his own understanding of scientific principles to come up with artistic concepts, whether or not the science is fully understood. He is an artist not a scientist, and that's what all the best artists do in my opinion. They explore ideas both in and out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demons in Your Eyes Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Well before I post, I acknowledge that there will probably be someone who will pick apart what I am saying. You are partly right, but no I wasn't referring to the original video, but to the Unsustainable video and kind of branching out the ideas in the video. Science is itself a social construction and it socially constructs. This is particularly relevant to the social sciences but also the physical sciences. We interpret information within the confines of what our understanding is in the first place. The famous, we might think there are only white swans if we have never seen a black swan. We also have norms of interpretation which are arbitrary. Take stuff like bell curves which are more about being average than normality or statistical probability. I wondered whether the Unsustainable video was a reference to how simplistic models on which social systems are created cause problems when they conflict with natural inclinations. (That can be stretched to include beneficial social norms, but I doubt that is the intention). At the beginning there are neurones and the brain on a background of written charts and figures. That may simply be meant to be a representation of human progress, but the video and the song also involves a lot of conflict, represented by the discord of the "dubstep" in the music and the scenes of the economic system not working. I think that Muse using a mix of scientific theories taken from the physical sciences and concepts which are not to do with theories that have been explicitly mapped out in the physical sciences are causing some confusion. Thus on commenting on what you were saying about the brain being an isolated system, I was thinking more in terms of you suggesting it as a concept rather than a physical actuality. Then really we're talking more in terms of psychology, emotions and feelings than whether or not the brain is closed off from outside stimulus (I think you and Niall are coming from different perspectives though I can see the logic in both perspectives). I need to go, but will come back and finish. You guys sound like English teachers; always reading too much into it. I seriously doubt that Belz put that much thought into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarrieB Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 You guys sound like English teachers Thank you, I take that as a compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter. Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 we should have a "best tl;dr muser 2012" title or something:LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 we should have a "best tl;dr muser 2012" title or something:LOL: CarrieB vs. Kati, the epic battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxomflirter Queef Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Both are nothing in comparison to TSC though. I wish she'd come back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Both are nothing in comparison to TSC though. I wish she'd come back Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buxomflirter Queef Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Really? Really, as in 'I can't believe there is worse' or really as in 'I can't believe you want her to come back'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Really, as in 'I can't believe there is worse' or really as in 'I can't believe you want her to come back'? The first one I never had the pleasure to read his/her posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.