Don'tPostThePear Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 EL34's run at about 450v on the plates, the preamps will be between 300-250v depending on the tube. James you were lucky, at least at the rectifiers the voltages are relatively low Edit: To be fair, at the voltage range were talking, it doesn't matter if its 110 or 450v, it will still kill you. It's more about the current you receive that matters, though higher volts are more likely to push you away, so I'm told. Only the current matters. 450V is not always deadly. That is why it is dangerous to work on live stuff because a lot of the times you can stick you finger to places under voltages like 110V and 450V without noticing it and then it gives a false sense of security. For example measured with a multimeter my bodies own resistance between my two hands are rarely go below 100k. That means if i touch 450v with one hand and a ground with other (amp chassis, water pipes, radiator etc.) i can't really get more than 4.5mA going which is relatively harmless or even imperceptible. But then i touch something where my finger touches both a live part and ground and i am sweating and momentarily the resistance between those parts of my hand are like 100ohms and then i get 4.5 amps going and maybe even burn down half of my finger or something. Btw it is better to use one hand only if you really can't turn that amp off because then the current cant really go through the heart plus avoid the AC side if you can because that can fuck you up easier than DC. (it will force its own frequency on your heart) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Only the current matters. 450V is not always deadly. That is why it is dangerous to work on live stuff because a lot of the times you can stick you finger to places under voltages like 110V and 450V without noticing it and then it gives a false sense of security. For example measured with a multimeter my bodies own resistance between my two hands are rarely go below 100k. That means if i touch 450v with one hand and a ground with other (amp chassis, water pipes, radiator etc.) i can't really get more than 4.5mA going which is relatively harmless or even imperceptible. But then i touch something where my finger touches both a live part and ground and i am sweating and momentarily the resistance between those parts of my hand are like 100ohms and then i get 4.5 amps going and maybe even burn down half of my finger or something. Btw it is better to use one hand only if you really can't turn that amp off because then the current cant really go through the heart plus avoid the AC side if you can because that can fuck you up easier than DC. (it will force its own frequency on your heart) QFT, except the bit about only current. For example, 4.5A at 9v isn't going to hurt you, unless you cook yourself with it conversely, at high enough voltage 20mA is enough to stop a heart. When I'm inside amps I make sure I put one hand in my pocket for exactly that reason. I don't know if its true, and cant see why it would be, but I read somewhere that the USA 110v, 60Hz combo is more likely to stop a heart than the uk 240v 50Hz system. Regarding AC/DC, they execute people using AC current precisely because it disrupts the hearts sinus rhythm, whereas DC just cooks you to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 This conversation has moved sideways rather quickly but at least everyone playing with electronics knows it's the current that kills not the voltage hence van den Graaff generators are nothing but good fun. What is it you've dismantled anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 This conversation has moved sideways rather quickly but at least everyone playing with electronics knows it's the current that kills not the voltage hence van den Graaff generators are nothing but good fun. What is it you've dismantled anyway? It has gone sideways, but to reiterate, you can't say it's current or voltage, they're interlinked. There's actually a narrow window of currents you can apply to the heart that will be fatal, assuming the application of current is not sustained long enough to cook you. That's why you can survive lightning strikes and other unlikely scenarios. Back on topic, it looks like someone started prototyping part of an amp, and then just got carried away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 It has gone sideways, but to reiterate, you can't say it's current or voltage, they're interlinked. There's actually a narrow window of currents you can apply to the heart that will be fatal, assuming the application of current is not sustained long enough to cook you. That's why you can survive lightning strikes and other unlikely scenarios. Back on topic, it looks like someone started prototyping part of an amp, and then just got carried away! Ah very interesting, I guess that makes sense with voltage and current. I still need to expand my knowledge on the electrical side (I'm a mechanical engineer) I have the basics down and I'm actually (apparently) very good with a soldering iron Yeah it does look a bit of a mess really open question to those involved how's the animator clone progressing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Back on topic, it looks like someone started prototyping part of an amp, and then just got carried away! I'm curious as to how that's actually possible! Seeing as there's a breadboard for the preamp section, maybe they were working on that and accidentally built the entire amp in the process... open question to those involved how's the animator clone progressing? I still have the pedal here. I can't decide what I want to do really... part of me doesn't want to mess with it as it cost me quite a bit, but at the same time I want to figure out what's inside this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witz Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I still have the pedal here. I can't decide what I want to do really... part of me doesn't want to mess with it as it cost me quite a bit, but at the same time I want to figure out what's inside this thing. That's quite a dilemma you have there, the curiosity factor and the fact finally people will know what makes these tick vs. the fact you could ruin a very expensive pedal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 That's quite a dilemma you have there, the curiosity factor and the fact finally people will know what makes these tick vs. the fact you could ruin a very expensive pedal! Yeah, but I'm sure Jaicen could reassemble it properly (he'd be the one doing the work). Only thing is it would be worth a lot less if I decided to sell it. Also, Jaicen... if I turn the gain way up and play a guitar through it, it gets this sort of "choppy" type sound. I have no idea how to describe it, but it's almost like a gate being switched on and off. Any ideas what this could be? I'll try to make a sound clip tomorrow. It might not even be the pedal itself though. I had a similar thing going on with one of my amps (although nowhere near as noticeable) which only happened here and not when my tech had it (but that's usually the case, isn't it?). It appears to be RF interference, but not sure about the pedal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 If it only happens at max gain, that's usually an indicator that its oscillating. I've had similar issues to that you've described which turned out to be subsonic oscillation, which basically sounds like amplitude modulation. Mostly it can be due to poor layout, wires too close etc. short if a rebuild, the solution is usually just don't turn it up too high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 If it only happens at max gain, that's usually an indicator that its oscillating. I've had similar issues to that you've described which turned out to be subsonic oscillation, which basically sounds like amplitude modulation. Mostly it can be due to poor layout, wires too close etc. short if a rebuild, the solution is usually just don't turn it up too high Hmm... I wonder if the amp is oscillating too. It starts around half way on the gain, but just gets worse as it's turned up. What's the difference between RF interference and oscillation exactly? the amp in question just had some mods to eliminate the RF, which sort of worked. We thought it was RF interference anyway, as it's only acting up here. I'm guessing they're different issues anyway. I had a modded JCM 800 a while back which had this white noise type sound on certain chords, but after these exact same mods were done, it was absolutely fine. As for the pedal, it's anywhere from 3 o clock to all the way up (which isn't much higher) The layout doesn't look to great from what I can see, so maybe this is another reason to send it to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 That would be...unexpected. No, I definitely don't know what I'm doing, but my friend does. Essentially he doesn't charge me for labor because he teaches me how to do things myself. fgXYR9TVSvg edit: https://reverb.com/item/241461-marshall-jcm-2000-orange-crunch-1998-dsl-100-watt-only-100-made-worldwide Hmm.. maybe if it was a few hundred cheaper. No idea what could be wrong with it, but I might make an offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Nice amp, but I don't see point of the valve rectifier in a 6w class-A to be fair. It sounds A LOT like my heavily modded Harley Benton GA5, no surprise given the similar topography. Regarding the motorboating, it could be the amp, does it do it with other pedals? I'm leaning toward the animato being the issue with all those wires between the two boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Nice amp, but I don't see point of the valve rectifier in a 6w class-A to be fair. It sounds A LOT like my heavily modded Harley Benton GA5, no surprise given the similar topography. Regarding the motorboating, it could be the amp, does it do it with other pedals? I'm leaning toward the animato being the issue with all those wires between the two boards. How come? I thought there were loads of tube rectified amps like that one WAY back when. And nah, I meant the amp was doing something similar on its own (on the OD channel) which had me stumped. The animato has a problem of its own anyway, but I don't turn the gain up that high with bass, so it's not really an issue, but still. That makes sense about the wires. I thought the term motor boating referred to that sound that happens even if you're not playing. I know one of my amps did that after I attempted to install a missing screen resistor (but for all I know, I installed it incorrectly). I think what's happening with the animato and the other amp I mentioned is some sort of interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Yeah they were all tube rectified because at the time they couldn't make silicon rectifiers that would stand up to the voltages/currents. Tube rectifiers will sag when there are large voltage swings on the output tubes. A 6w class A will never push the rectifier into sagging, hence my scepticism. Ermm, motorboating, not sure to be honest. Where does the video do the thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Yeah they were all tube rectified because at the time they couldn't make silicon rectifiers that would stand up to the voltages/currents. Tube rectifiers will sag when there are large voltage swings on the output tubes. A 6w class A will never push the rectifier into sagging, hence my scepticism. Ermm, motorboating, not sure to be honest. Where does the video do the thing? I see. I'm not entirely sure where the design came from, but I've heard it's based on that "white" amp fender made in 1956. The video above? It's not that one (I haven't got mine yet...Jim) but I'll try to make a clip of the amp that's making the weird noise and also the animato The strat sounds nice here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1HpPJ6a9hI Sort of want lace sensors now, but I don't know which ones that guitar had. edit: http://royalbloodband.com/news/win-a-royal-blood-fender-starcaster-bass-guit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witz Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 edit: http://royalbloodband.com/news/win-a-royal-blood-fender-starcaster-bass-guit Nice I was going to buy there album anyway, might as well preorder and have the chance of winning a fairly handsome bass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidious911 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I can't wait for that album, and they are now coming to Toronto which I got tickets for, $16! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Nice I was going to buy there album anyway, might as well preorder and have the chance of winning a fairly handsome bass Do it. I've already got a few different releases on order (I forgot which ones, but one is the signed vinyl) I can't wait for that album, and they are now coming to Toronto which I got tickets for, $16! $16 well spent. I received my ticket the other day for the NYC show they're playing this October. Excited to see them again, and hopefully will get to meet them properly. Last time it was just "Hey guys" and then they walked past me a few times after that... sort of awkward really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboMansonMB-1 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hey James.... https://reverb.com/item/249767-motorave-belaire-josh-homme-specifications-queens-of-the-stone-age-bel-aire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hey James.... https://reverb.com/item/249767-motorave-belaire-josh-homme-specifications-queens-of-the-stone-age-bel-aire Nice You buying it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboMansonMB-1 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Nice You buying it? Heck naw. All yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Heck naw. All yours. Oh son... you shouldn't have. How are you liking the princeton? I got mine back not long ago and it's sounding great. Check out this new amp builder from texas. Would like to hear Jaicen's thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 You wouldn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 You wouldn't! That bad? A few things: 1. He tolex'd the inside of the chassis. Because, you know... it has to look good in there. 2. close up picture of the circuit board: Now... can those breadboards (usually used for FX pedals) be used in amps too? and what about the components being so close together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboMansonMB-1 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Oh son... you shouldn't have. How are you liking the princeton? I got mine back not long ago and it's sounding great. Check out this new amp builder from texas. Would like to hear Jaicen's thoughts on this. Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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