"Exogenesis" to be released as a single???

[haze015]

No because you're still aiming to make a profit out of fans. People don't buy EPs from unknown bands expecting them to get famous and sell them a decade later for profit whilst reducing the amount available at face value for contemporary fans. You've made a false analogy, end of.

 

Actually, people do.

[Hat]

Actually, people do.

Damnit, was just gonna say the same

[Phill]

Analogy relevance confirmed!

[haze015]

Damnit, was just gonna say the same

 

There's plenty more to say on the matter, but that post just sounds like Neill doesn't go see unsigned bands and unheard of bands just signed to labels. More likely to get some pissed guy buying your records who won't remember it in the morning and never listen to it than someone who actually does like it as getting people to part with their cash when you're unheard of is next to impossible. Unless they are wasted and got too much money to spend.

It's more likely the majority of the people who bought the first two EPs really didn't give a shit about the band and profited years later just for being in the right place at the right time.

[ZombieEaten]

I have a Little Angels EP if anyone is interested

[Niall]

Analogy relevance confirmed!

 

Not really. Most people selling Muse EPs were just old time fans or happened to catch tem around Devon back in 1999. And again, old release from unknown band =/= new release from massive well known band.

 

And I find it hard to believe people go round mass buying the EPs of hundreds of unknown bands for the 1 or 2 that survive to play arena tours 5 years later.

[haze015]

Not really. Most people selling Muse EPs were just old time fans or happened to catch tem around Devon back in 1999. And again, old release from unknown band =/= new release from massive well known band.

 

And I find it hard to believe people go round mass buying the EPs of hundreds of unknown bands for the 1 or 2 that survive to play arena tours 5 years later.

 

People don't do that en mass, but definitely do it. Recently some guys I know from college signed to a major, people I know who know them have only bought the possibly limited 7" of the single in the hope they get famous because it'll be worth something whilst not actually being fans of the song at all.

 

The only difference is with an unheard of band, there's no guarantee. To suggest a release is different to any other release is naive or a lame attempt to justify selling something at more than face value.

 

 

 

I don't see what the issue with selling records of any kind for more than they originally cost is, something is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it. It's nothing like touting as you don't have to play a record or you can play it as much as you want and then sell it on again as it doesn't have a use by date, it could be worth more or less, or the same. People do it with wine, stamps etc, what is different about music?

[futurophu]

lol the plain-arse artwork.. i totally missed this getting released

[eglang@btinternet.com]

From Wiki: Ethics (also known as moral philosophy) is a branch of philosophy which seeks to address questions about morality; that is, about concepts such as good and bad, the noble and the ignoble, right and wrong, justice, and virtue.

[Niall]

I don't see what the issue with selling records of any kind for more than they originally cost is, something is worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it. It's nothing like touting as you don't have to play a record or you can play it as much as you want and then sell it on again as it doesn't have a use by date, it could be worth more or less, or the same. People do it with wine, stamps etc, what is different about music?

 

Okay, so the guy can buy one copy for himself and then sell it when he doesn't want it anymore for whatever value. But what you're describing isn't the same as buying 10 copies at £7.99 each, keeping one, and then putting the rest on eBay for £30 each to make money from them. That is exactly the same as touting in that you take away something limited someone can buy at a predetermine value just to make money for yourself by reselling it (and that fact that tickets have to be used on a certain day is a moot point).

 

Let's say I have £800 spare and it's a few days ago. Is it fare for me to buy 100 of the copies of the vinyl that sold out in a few hours from Muse.mu and then sell them on at £15 each on eBay and make £500 from it? No, and it's because I'm not a greedy bastard exploiting a limited edition release at the expense of fans.

 

Or maybe from now on all of Muse's (and any other artist's) limited edition releases should go to the 500 top bidders? That'll go down well.

[sulli01]

Okay, so the guy can buy one copy for himself and then sell it when he doesn't want it anymore for whatever value. But what you're describing isn't the same as buying 10 copies at £7.99 each, keeping one, and then putting the rest on eBay for £30 each to make money from them. That is exactly the same as touting in that you take away something limited someone can buy at a predetermine value just to make money for yourself by reselling it (and that fact that tickets have to be used on a certain day is a moot point).

 

Let's say I have £800 spare and it's a few days ago. Is it fare for me to buy 100 of the copies of the vinyl that sold out in a few hours from Muse.mu and then sell them on at £15 each on eBay and make £500 from it? No, and it's because I'm not a greedy bastard exploiting a limited edition release at the expense of fans.

 

Or maybe from now on all of Muse's (and any other artist's) limited edition releases should go to the 500 top bidders? That'll go down well.

 

 

I agree with this post......

[haze015]

Okay, so the guy can buy one copy for himself and then sell it when he doesn't want it anymore for whatever value. But what you're describing isn't the same as buying 10 copies at £7.99 each, keeping one, and then putting the rest on eBay for £30 each to make money from them. That is exactly the same as touting in that you take away something limited someone can buy at a predetermine value just to make money for yourself by reselling it (and that fact that tickets have to be used on a certain day is a moot point).

 

Let's say I have £800 spare and it's a few days ago. Is it fare for me to buy 100 of the copies of the vinyl that sold out in a few hours from Muse.mu and then sell them on at £15 each on eBay and make £500 from it? No, and it's because I'm not a greedy bastard exploiting a limited edition release at the expense of fans.

 

Or maybe from now on all of Muse's (and any other artist's) limited edition releases should go to the 500 top bidders? That'll go down well.

 

That's just you and it doesn't make you a "better" person. I have no issue with touts, just the complete bellends who buy from them because if people weren't prepared to pay over the odds for something, nobody would do it.

 

I've bought one copy with no intention of ever playing it

 

 

Personally, the worse thing you can do with vinyl is when you see something valuable in a charity for, say a £1, and don't say anything, buy it and stick it on ebay to make huge profits while the charity shop goes under.

[lily93]

Actually what you are saying Niall is just capitalism in general.

 

Buying loads for the cheap then selling them for loads more.

 

Everything you own probably went through this process, like clothes or electrical appliances, made in asia on the cheap then sold for loads more when they get to the UK.

 

I never hear people whinging about people selling the Muse EP for hundreds, only people whining that they can't afford to buy it or got outbid.

 

People are prepared to sell the rare stuff for an inflated price just as much as people are willing to pay that price for it. I know I joked saying I was selling mine for £200 but I'm not selling this probably ever, unless it reaches 4 figures...sure call me greedy, but at that price, a redundant piece of vinyl isn't as good as considerable amount of money.

[sulli01]

Actually what you are saying Niall is just capitalism in general.

 

Buying loads for the cheap then selling them for loads more.

 

Everything you own probably went through this process, like clothes or electrical appliances, made in asia on the cheap then sold for loads more when they get to the UK.

 

I never hear people whinging about people selling the Muse EP for hundreds, only people whining that they can't afford to buy it or got outbid.

 

People are prepared to sell the rare stuff for an inflated price just as much as people are willing to pay that price for it. I know I joked saying I was selling mine for £200 but I'm not selling this probably ever, unless it reaches 4 figures...sure call me greedy, but at that price, a redundant piece of vinyl isn't as good as considerable amount of money.

 

He isnt talking about stuff that has been in someones collection for years, its about ordering more than they need to go out and make a quick buck

[lily93]

He isnt talking about stuff that has been in someones collection for years, its about ordering more than they need to go out and make a quick buck

 

So what about buying a dozen and selling them in a few years for the same reason

[sulli01]

So what about buying a dozen and selling them in a few years for the same reason

 

now you are going off at a tangent, we were talking about people buying lots and selling straight away

 

but i dont think that there would be many people holding on to lots of the records for a period of about 10 years if they could just sell them now for high prices cus eventually the prices will calm down as people rushed to get their copy just after release.

[haze015]

now you are going off at a tangent, we were talking about people buying lots and selling straight away

 

but i dont think that there would be many people holding on to lots of the records for a period of about 10 years if they could just sell them now for high prices cus eventually the prices will calm down as people rushed to get their copy just after release.

 

Actually, things just go up in value. You won't get much now as you can't set a value as you need to see what the demand is and what people are prepared to pay, so buying to sell now is just stupid.

[lily93]

now you are going off at a tangent, we were talking about people buying lots and selling straight away

 

but i dont think that there would be many people holding on to lots of the records for a period of about 10 years if they could just sell them now for high prices cus eventually the prices will calm down as people rushed to get their copy just after release.

 

Still, what's wrong with making a profit quickly vs. long term? People looking to buy them on ebay are looking for a profit as well.

[lily93]

Actually, things just go up in value. You won't get much now as you can't set a value as you need to see what the demand is and what people are prepared to pay, so buying to sell now is just stupid.

 

Exactly, and other people selling right away will try and undercut you.

[sulli01]

Actually, things just go up in value. You won't get much now as you can't set a value as you need to see what the demand is and what people are prepared to pay, so buying to sell now is just stupid.

 

 

I know that things go up in value (i said that), they will rocket just after release which is what i was saying as people who really wanted them bid for them against each other. Buying to sell now is not stupid as demonstrated on this site there are lots of people who want one but didnt get one (and with it being only 2000 in circulation prices will go up even more). Remember the Resistance Pic Disc ? just after release they were selling for £30 about 5 or 6 times the original amount paid, and because there are only 2000 of these opposed to 5000 resistance vinyls I could see these going £40+ (maybe conservative?) shortly after release. with those margins for something that you will only hold on to for a few days, who wouldnt sell their stash of them? Especially when they would need to hold on to them for 10 years to see a great return on them.

[sulli01]

Still, what's wrong with making a profit quickly vs. long term? People looking to buy them on ebay are looking for a profit as well.

 

At least with long term you have held on to them for that long.

 

and no one will have bought lots so they can hold on to them for 10 years to see a great return.

 

edit: forgot to also say, nobody bought the original muse eps at the time to go out and sell them for high prices, whereas with this release people will and thats immoral imo

[Niall]

That's just you and it doesn't make you a "better" person. I have no issue with touts, just the complete bellends who buy from them because if people weren't prepared to pay over the odds for something, nobody would do it.

 

I've bought one copy with no intention of ever playing it

 

 

Personally, the worse thing you can do with vinyl is when you see something valuable in a charity for, say a £1, and don't say anything, buy it and stick it on ebay to make huge profits while the charity shop goes under.

 

...and the reason they may have to do so is an inability to buy the tickets themselves because the touts have bought so many. The touts themselves are adjusting the demand by manipulating the supply. It's positive feedback. If I decided not to go on holiday this year and instead buy all 500 of the vinyls, I would have an absolute control over the supply and the preorder prices. (As an aside I'm not 100% against touts, they provide a means of selling spare tickets at the venue for when, eg. a friend doesn't show and you're left with a spare, useless ticket, but that's a service venues should provide anyway imo).

 

Resistance vinyls were selling for £30 buy it now on eBay before the single had even been released simply because one seller bought a load of extra copies and decided to set the price at £30, and these were the only ones available.

 

And lily93, buying a lot now to sell in 10 years time or something is no better. You're still depriving fans who wish to own a copy of the opportunity too, or selling that opportunity back to them at an inevitably higher price.

 

There is no seller on eBay who sells more than one of each EP...genuinely anyway. The people selling them are people who liked the band 10 years ago, bought a copy, but now sell it on for the going value, usually starting at 0.99p listing on eBay, or setting it at an average sale price for the completed listings.

 

I guess this is where the band come in with their morals on the issue. If they care whether or not their releases are being exploited as a means of making money, and whether to impose a sale limit of 2 or something per customer.

[lily93]

Or just release enough.

[Niall]

I'm pretty sure people will forget about this release soon enough anyway.

[Epona99]

there's a version of it in the media player now, just Exo + Uprising Live