the_man361 Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Duplicate a guitars track, no effects yet, then push forward a few samples or delay it (with 100% mix) and only a few milliseconds, maybe 20-40 delay. Pan each hard Left and Right. (this is a cheap ''wall of sound'' guitar effect) why have a cheap wall of sound when you can take another 5 minutes to track another guitar part instead? it sounds much better and you avoid the possibility of having dodgy sounding comb filtering that can be introduced by your method... im right against duplicating, panning and delaying a take for that method Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_and_tv Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I've done a new rough mix of Somnambulist, a song some of you listened to before. This is the album version, un-mastered, with a shit vocal sound so far. Let me know what you think! All opinions welcome, especially on the mix. sounds great, really good clear mix. maybe doesnt sound as 'big' as it could during the heavier bits? although i guess the mastering process would help with that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 ChrisirhC - The guitars are multi-tracked and panned quite wide on this mix. I don't want to A/B my mix against something else just yet. I tend to do that at the end of the process, and during mastering. I like the guitar tone I have. Is there something you suggest needs changing with it? The bass might be too bassy, we're going to re-record it on a new bass soon. Ta for the comments. We should probably get this thread off page two! Who else has some mixes to upload? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bshuker Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 why have a cheap wall of sound when you can take another 5 minutes to track another guitar part instead? it sounds much better and you avoid the possibility of having dodgy sounding comb filtering that can be introduced by your method... im right against duplicating, panning and delaying a take for that method Giant +1 on this. It never sounds right if you fake it lol at what i said ifyou think about it wrong aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bshuker Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I've done a new rough mix of Somnambulist, a song some of you listened to before. This is the album version, un-mastered, with a shit vocal sound so far. Let me know what you think! All opinions welcome, especially on the mix. I like the kind of mix you're going for with it with the twangy guitars and clipped vocals plus the kinda trashy drums. But...it seems kinda underpowered from the bass end to work right somehow. I don't know what you other people have listened to this on but for me its not that bassy. See if you can't compress the bass a bit and bring it up a bit, give it some more at any rate. I'd probably do a little overall eq'ing to the guitars, maybe just take the hi-pass down a little bit (it sounds like they're hi-passed to me), just give them some more lower mid range just to fatten them out a wee bit. Also I noticed you've got your toms panned seriously hard left/right and with the way you've panned the rest of the kit (sounds very central to me), it sounds pretty bizarre when you're tom hits come in. Might be worth just bringing them in a bit Sorry it's not a particularly detailed evaluation i only just got up but it's just my general comments from a couple of listens. It's a really cool song though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 No, that's cool, the toms do stand out too much, I thought it was level, but if I bring the panning in a bit that might do the trick. With the bass as we're going to re-do it i'll hold off judgement. Yeh, the guitars are high passed, I suppose I was trying to let the bass cut through more, i'll put the lows back in the guitars, re-record the bass, and see what we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bshuker Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Sweet, don't put too much lows in the guitars i'm just thinking they need some more low mids and upper lows just to fatten them ever so slightly. Then go absolutely fat as hell with the bass track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 The bass we used is an Aria pro II P/J and it sounds great at practice, but I can never get the fucker to record well, so I got him to buy a squire bronco heavily modded by a guy on basschat.co.uk. Hopefully that will sound a shit load better. Tonight is the taste test! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisirhC Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 why have a cheap wall of sound when you can take another 5 minutes to track another guitar part instead? Sounds tighter. OR maybe I'm just crap at keeping in time I've never experienced comb filtering with it, now that I've heard his track it's maybe not a technique he'll be using on it, but it's a simple method to when people say ''im in a metal band and both guitarists sound really mushy in teh mix11!! help!'' The bass we used is an Aria pro II P/J and it sounds great at practice, but I can never get the fucker to record well, so I got him to buy a squire bronco heavily modded by a guy on basschat.co.uk. Hopefully that will sound a shit load better. Tonight is the taste test! How are you recording it? I've heard good results with a MIC and a DI, just zoom in and fix the phase issues as much as you can and blend them into one another as you please. Even putting higher end on a bass guitar or a kick drum mightn't seem right but when you do it might give it the life it needs. Have you read 'The Mixing Engineers Handbook' It's good to reference on it from time to time. Some good tips from pro's too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bshuker Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Still a god awful method of producing guitars. People who say they can't do a double take obviously need to work on their timing, it's not difficult. I hate all these godawful tricks to try and polish shit players. Something that absolutely everybody STILL gets wrong, is that they think they can play stuff mediocre with mediocre sounds and get it to sound great later with editing and effects. I guarantee you that if you play it well and have a great sound in the first place, then it's going to sound a million times better than some hashed out takes cut together. Why is it that everybody just wants to cheat these days? Genuine musicianship goes a fucking long way. Also had the same issue with a lot of people I did Music Tech with at 6th form, (and some people from the tech college across the way doing higher ed diploma in 'professional sound engineering', and these people couldn't even keep time with basic 4/4 music and couldn't play any basic chords or play a major scale let alone read notation. These people were all aspiring to be record producers and godknows what else, and they struggled with basic rudiments of music. Baffles me. /rant. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisirhC Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Still a god awful method of producing guitars. People who say they can't do a double take obviously need to work on their timing, it's not difficult. I hate all these godawful tricks to try and polish shit players. Something that absolutely everybody STILL gets wrong, is that they think they can play stuff mediocre with mediocre sounds and get it to sound great later with editing and effects. I guarantee you that if you play it well and have a great sound in the first place, then it's going to sound a million times better than some hashed out takes cut together. Why is it that everybody just wants to cheat these days? Genuine musicianship goes a fucking long way. Also had the same issue with a lot of people I did Music Tech with at 6th form, (and some people from the tech college across the way doing higher ed diploma in 'professional sound engineering', and these people couldn't even keep time with basic 4/4 music and couldn't play any basic chords or play a major scale let alone read notation. These people were all aspiring to be record producers and godknows what else, and they struggled with basic rudiments of music. Baffles me. /rant. lol I agree...several thousand enter the industry each year with a degree expecting to be the next big record producer and that's just not the reality, nor are there many jobs. This is the society we live in though, there will always be a quicker cheaper way to do something and people will always strive to find it. I've met guitarists that couldn't put together major/minor triads or work out key signatures. Scales are taught as shapes rather than notes in magazines, most people here are guitarists including myself but it's the 90% of them that watch EVH and steve vai videos, think they can tap like that or think shredding will get them somewhere while they practice 10 hours a day trying to play 20 notes a second. I haven't played guitar much this past year, and my chops suffered, just fluency and timing is going down the shitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_man361 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Sounds tighter. OR maybe I'm just crap at keeping in time I've never experienced comb filtering with it, now that I've heard his track it's maybe not a technique he'll be using on it, but it's a simple method to when people say ''im in a metal band and both guitarists sound really mushy in teh mix11!! help!'' How are you recording it? I've heard good results with a MIC and a DI, just zoom in and fix the phase issues as much as you can and blend them into one another as you please. Even putting higher end on a bass guitar or a kick drum mightn't seem right but when you do it might give it the life it needs. Have you read 'The Mixing Engineers Handbook' It's good to reference on it from time to time. Some good tips from pro's too. yeah your timing has to be on to double track effectively.. but if you're playing the type of music to double track a part and cant play two takes in time, then maybe it needs to be worked on. other methods i'd look to before copying and delaying the same take are using another mic in another position to record 2 mics at the same time off the guitar cab, but phasing can be a massive issue here.. so get the cans on and move the mics until they ARE in phase.. totally in phase. millimetres count a lot when using two mics on a guitar cab, i was working on some dual mic guitar recording recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisirhC Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 yeah your timing has to be on to double track effectively.. but if you're playing the type of music to double track a part and cant play two takes in time, then maybe it needs to be worked on. other methods i'd look to before copying and delaying the same take are using another mic in another position to record 2 mics at the same time off the guitar cab, but phasing can be a massive issue here.. so get the cans on and move the mics until they ARE in phase.. totally in phase. millimetres count a lot when using two mics on a guitar cab, i was working on some dual mic guitar recording recently Marshall cabs are wired out of phase aren't they though, Is that top to bottom by assumption? I don't want to have to tell anyone to come back to double track all their parts never mind asking a bloody guitarist I've heard of a technique micing the rear of the cab but a SDC might work here, though the sound will change a lot with the front mic when you remove that rear plate. I think guitar micing is well overlooked for some reason, the 'stick a 57 on it' seems to stick when there are millions of better solutions, I put C414's on amps once during a metal set and it sounded as good as the amp's tone. In the DAW it's easy to zoom right in until you can actually see the waves out of phase then give them a nudge into phase. Will not work for everything though, you can't beat proper mic placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_man361 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 i checked my marshall cab and both speakers are wired in phase. if they were wired out of phase, they should null in the middle too, every so often. and yeh, if it comes down to it, i guess a fix it in the mix approach of nudging them into phase might work, but it wont be as good as actually getting the phase right by placement. have you read this: http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html its a very useful collection of bits about recording guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisirhC Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 i checked my marshall cab and both speakers are wired in phase. if they were wired out of phase, they should null in the middle too, every so often. and yeh, if it comes down to it, i guess a fix it in the mix approach of nudging them into phase might work, but it wont be as good as actually getting the phase right by placement. have you read this: http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html its a very useful collection of bits about recording guitars Forgot about that still funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 How are you recording it? I've heard good results with a MIC and a DI, just zoom in and fix the phase issues as much as you can and blend them into one another as you please. Even putting higher end on a bass guitar or a kick drum mightn't seem right but when you do it might give it the life it needs. Have you read 'The Mixing Engineers Handbook' It's good to reference on it from time to time. Some good tips from pro's too. We played on friday with his new bass and fuck me it sounds better. We went home to DI his takes but he got way too fucked on laughing gas. I'll do it with a DI and a couple of close dynamic mics and a distant condensor and then see what I get. Have you even listened to the sample I put up? There's a shit load of top end on the kick. I'll get another mix up later this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_October Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hey, i'm a beggining level mixer, and for fun i'm taking all the seperated tracks for Hysteria and trying to make a better mix of it because the album version is horrible. Again, i'm completely new to this (this is the first thing that i've ever tried), so I have no idea what the do's and dont's of mixing are. So, at this point, i'm trying to push the rhythm section up in the mix a little bit, because that's really what drives the song, but the kick drum keeps distorting. Aside from that, the drums as a whole sound tinny and kinda demo-ey. Is there any way to fix this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 Turning one thing up is the same as turning everything else down. If you do the latter, you will avoid distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_October Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Turning one thing up is the same as turning everything else down. If you do the latter, you will avoid distortion. Oh. You'd think that I would've thought of that, but I guess not:LOL:. Thank's for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 If you get a whammy you'll have common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisirhC Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 If you get a whammy you'll have common sense. Yea, that's all I use for mixing these days. but I have a fuzz waerhouse for putting some scream into vocals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 That sounds amazing, got any samples? I have to use a whammy for my brutal screams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_October Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 So, I really want to get into mixing in the future, and I thought, why not start now? However, I have no idea what i'm doing, and was wondering if anyone just had some general tips about what not to do when mixing music. Any advice/info is appreciated. I know that this is pretty general, i'm sorry. I don't really have a specific thing that I need help with, I just need some general knowledge, if that makes sense. Also, I need some help with some terms. Like, what does panning hard LR mean? Anyway, I know that this is random and may be kind of stupid on my part (i'm a noob to this), but any help is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerthekiwi Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Ahem. We already have a mixing thread here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemsy Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Merged the threads so you don't have to type it all again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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