cheddatom Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I realise there are almost no KnTs local to me, but if you could try and answer this as though you are, that would be appreciated... How much would you pay for a 10 hour studio session, if the engineer promised "professional results"? How many songs do you think you can get to "professional standard" in one 10 hour session? Same questions for "good demo" standard How far would you travel for a studio? What would motivate you... price or quality/reputation? Do you have prejudices about particular equipment/software and would this be a determining factor when chosing your studio? More to come later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Jeez, there are so many factors to consider here. I used to charge £350 a day, which was a nominal 8 hours, but usually closer to 12 Promising 'professional results' is frankly bollocks. You need to have a product to show to prospective customers. Usually this means a few free sessions for some bands. A diverse range of bands, not just one style. How many songs?? Depends on so many factors. How many takes does the band need?? A live demo of a band in a room you could get five songs to tape in a day. However, if you're multitracking you won't get more than three done, and even then you need another day to mix it down. If I was aiming for professional standards, I wouldn't expect to have one song done in a day. Determine your market first. If you plan to record demos for college bands, price it accordingly. I don't think the gear you have is that important, provided you have enough quality mic's and a couple of good outboard compressors you should be fine. At least one 1176 is a requirement for me And enough channels of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Jaicen you sound far too mature I agree with you on the times required but I don't think most bands realise... They want to do 5 songs in a day and come out with amazing results. Another problem I've come accross is people demanding macs and pro tools or specific plug-ins etc. Do I need to pander to these kids? Or am I going to be able to make money doing it my own way? £350 a day is pretty impressive though, you must have been pretty damn good to charge that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthijs Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 My answers are aimed at a starting band, who wants a representable demo. I realise there are almost no KnTs local to me, but if you could try and answer this as though you are, that would be appreciated... How much would you pay for a 10 hour studio session, if the engineer promised "professional results"? I would say about 200-300 pounds, depending on the materials you could provide to show your professional results. How many songs do you think you can get to "professional standard" in one 10 hour session? 3; I think you need about 2 hours setting up, provided the drumkit is provided by the studio. Then, about 1.5 hour per song (playing together live) to get it all right and record dubbing, add about 1 hour of vocal time and then some post processing. That does demand of the band that they're ready to record and play 'perfect' sessions Same questions for "good demo" standard How far would you travel for a studio? What would motivate you... price or quality/reputation? I don't have a car, but a 2-hour drive would be max, as it drains you. On a long day any longer drives would provide lesser results. Do you have prejudices about particular equipment/software and would this be a determining factor when choosing your studio? I would say that equipment doesn't matter, but could be a benefit for bands recording to a click track, and being able to provide you with a click track to record to. It's about the results, not the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I realise there are almost no KnTs local to me, but if you could try and answer this as though you are, that would be appreciated... I'm going to answer from the point of view of someone who is capable of mixing their own stuff but has no 'live room' options. How much would you pay for a 10 hour studio session, if the engineer promised "professional results"? 100-200 but all I would want was engineering and the equipment/space, no (or very little) production or mixing. A multitrack session file at the end of the day is what I'd want out of it. How many songs do you think you can get to "professional standard" in one 10 hour session? 1-2 with experimentation, more for straight playthroughs with the odd overdub. Same questions for "good demo" standard Possibly 6-7, depending how tight/fussy we are and how fast everyone is at setting things up. How far would you travel for a studio? What would motivate you... price or quality/reputation? Right now I wouldn't travel very far (<10 miles) as we have no transport, unless the rates were very good or it was a more residential thing. Do you have prejudices about particular equipment/software and would this be a determining factor when chosing your studio? Software is irrelevant but I would expect a reasonable selection of mics, a decent (tuned) kit and an interesting guitar amp or two. The ability to play 'live' and loud would probably be the deciding factor. Outboard equipment is not such a big deal if the drums are sounding good already but some comps would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 thanks Matt there are quite a few recording studios in and around Stoke and they all seem to charge £200 or less per day. I don't think i'm going to be right at the top of the market as I don't have money to invest. I was planning to have a 24 channel rig with Cubase. I can do click tracks etc. Synths and samples I'm not so good at. My examples would be the 2nd creepjoint album and Emilio Pinchi Hopefully both of these sound "professional" enough but I can do more. I have another couple of past projects in mind, I just need to dig them out. I've been recording a lot of people for free over the last 5 years and have improved massively (sounds arrogant I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Cheers Jon there will be a well tuned and maintained kit ready to go. I don't really have interesting amps but I have well over 50 pedals, maybe that'd be nice compensation? I guess if people will travel I'll have to get amps in. If you're taking a session away, what sort of format are you after? Just loads of stems, one folder per song, on DVDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthijs Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You could do like: demo deals; 160 pounds for 3 songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Cheers Jon there will be a well tuned and maintained kit ready to go. I don't really have interesting amps but I have well over 50 pedals, maybe that'd be nice compensation? I guess if people will travel I'll have to get amps in. If you're taking a session away, what sort of format are you after? Just loads of stems, one folder per song, on DVDs? I thought as much with you but it seems to be something people overlook quite frequently! A lot of pedals is a draw if you can dial them in quickly for someone, otherwise I could see it becoming a massive timesink (and irritating for non-guitarists haha). When I say interesting amps I don't mean you have to have anything with a crystal lettuce but some options beyond marshall half-stack and open-back fender would be cool. See if you can pick up some weird old solid-state thing from russia, for example. I reckon most people with a genre-defined sound will have an amp and want to use it but alternative options can be invaluable. One stem per track (named and normalised please), equal length so I don't have to line everything up again and take off any plugins if we used them during playback. I'd bring a blank hard drive for ease of use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Stems should be easy enough. I guess a good option would be my own FTP server, not just for stems but also high quality mix down etc I do actually have a very old HH 2 x 12" combo which sounds pretty amazing, but I didn't think it'd impress any guitarists. I'll also have my guitarist's H&K Warp 7 half stack, but what you're saying sounds like I really need a half decent "standard" all valve rig in there..? Pedal wise I am going to have some set permanently attached to my patch bay, so if someone needs X toan I just patch it in. Giving a guitarist 50 pedals and a load of patch cables is just going to lead to a massive waste of time I think I'm going to aim for £150 per 8 hour day for the first few months, but obviously be flexible with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Stems should be easy enough. I guess a good option would be my own FTP server, not just for stems but also high quality mix down etc I do actually have a very old HH 2 x 12" combo which sounds pretty amazing, but I didn't think it'd impress any guitarists. I'll also have my guitarist's H&K Warp 7 half stack, but what you're saying sounds like I really need a half decent "standard" all valve rig in there..? Pedal wise I am going to have some set permanently attached to my patch bay, so if someone needs X toan I just patch it in. Giving a guitarist 50 pedals and a load of patch cables is just going to lead to a massive waste of time I think I'm going to aim for £150 per 8 hour day for the first few months, but obviously be flexible with it. Well that sounds like a start with the amps but yeah, some sort of 'standard' valve rig so people don't have to bring in their amps if they don't want to would be good. I guess it's something you could develop as you start making money but having some basics makes it very easy to get a recognisable tone and it reassures people with familiar equipment. Sounds like a good idea with the pedals/patchbay. I'd pay £150 just to track drums for a day if you weren't hundreds of miles away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil. Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 £5 + mars bar for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowella Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 This is coming from someone who has had experience with recording in a studio by with "professionals" and sound engineering students and also has some home recording skills and equipment. I also have self transport, flexible schedule but tight budget How much would you pay for a 10 hour studio session, if the engineer promised "professional results"? I'd say $500AUD which works out around 325 pounds. However, with professional results I would ask that the engineer shows up on time (as well as the band) How many songs do you think you can get to "professional standard" in one 10 hour session? One to three. I would imagine that by the time everyone in say a 4 piece band has done their instruments, vocals, harmonies, etc; you end up using a lot of time up. Not to mention setting up, general discussion about the music, changes in recording which happen all the time. From experience, a great musician who is in a good mood will punch out the songs quickly. A lot of this will depend on the musicians, the music produced and the engineer's patience or lack there of. Tiredness and illness can ruin that easily though so I guess judge the mood of someone then determine how far you will go. Same questions for "good demo" standard 16. Again, from experience Really though, I'm assuming a good demo would probably be a well recorded, all in live take with extra bits here and there? I would say more than 6 easily. Good demo's usually only consist of the basic live instruments so if you can't get more than an EP's worth out of that day you either have a problem with time management, or a band that has too few songs or poor performance (happens a lot according to everyone I've talked to) How far would you travel for a studio? What would motivate you... price or quality/reputation? We've travelled about 2 and a half hours for a studio before, but with the benefit of actually having accommodation there. To be perfectly honest, I'd rather not waste time travelling unless there is going to be a good result so how far we would travel would be roughly equivalent to the quality. I'd travel 2 hours or so for yours if you produce similar to your creepJoint stuff. Do you have prejudices about particular equipment/software and would this be a determining factor when chosing your studio? I've generally never been a fan of having the most pimped up gear. I generally expect a studio to have a variety of mics (good or "bad), and basically anything beyond a very basic setup, including playback headphones which work, which reminds me, why can't studios EVER have headphones that work. More time gets wasted there than anyway but whatever... Equipment for the player is normally a good bonus. I would expect a few amps, including some practice ones, a bass amp, percussion (I don't expect kits, more tambourines, bells) and some guitars/basses to vary it up. It doesn't need to be "good", just needs to function. For example, I used a Peavey T40 bass in the studio. It actually blew my mind, and it's not expensive either, it achieved the tone I wanted for one song. Most people aren't going to know what all your outboard gear is, or have much knowledge of how it's run or patched. More always appears better but to be perfectly honest, I'd rather someone that knows how to use less equipment over someone with GAS on everything. I couldn't think of any outboard gear I'd like to see other than some compressors, mic preamps, decent monitors and most importantly, a tidy presentable studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Thanks all so far. I've got my head stuck in work at the moment but will post moar soon Current conclusions are that I need to obtain some more interesting mics (probably one valve, one ribbon?) and more importantly I need a headphone amp which can do at least 4 different channels. My current headphone amp just sends the same input to 4 outputs - how rubbish is that! Guitar rig will have to wait until I have some money. A couple of guitars and basses for the studio isn't a problem. I want to have a full kit there tuned and mic'd ready to go, I think most bands would appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Don't bother with ribbon mic's, they will just get broken. A nice large diaphragm condensor for vocals would be good, if the budget stretches, get two. Buy a good shockmount. A u87 is a must, then get another one with some 'character' like a valve pre model. SE do one at a reasonable price. They also do nice condenser pairs for overheads at a budget price. Personally, I favour the oktava mk219 for overheads as they never sound harsh. Some akg419's would be nice for amps and stuff. Also I forgot to mention, what are the dimensions of the live rooms and the tracking room?? A really good was of drumming up business is to have bands use the space to rehearse in. When they want demos recording you're first port of call. Does mean locking away all the nice stuff though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 The premises is undetermined at the moment. My current studio is impractical as people have to walk through a factory to get to it... this is why I don't currently do paid sessions I have a SE2200A and Rhode NT1 which are both pretty nice for vocals. I also have a Rhode NT4 which is great for overheads and acoustic guitars or room micing. I have a Red Audio set of drum mics but I generally just use the kick drum mic and 57s on the rest of the kit. As far as guitar amps go I've always like the sound of a 57... I guess at least two 419s are essential really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowella Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 All of a sudden I feel quite good about the equipment I'm using after hearing your recordings and seeing that equip list. The NT1 is a nice bass amp mic too To be honest, if you got recordings like your last stuff sounding that good, I'd say continue to work with what you have for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord MFC Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 My band are looking for an affordable but profesional studio to record 4 four/five minute songs... We're looking at the cheapest at £100 each (3 of us) at the moment, but that's in expensive old south england. That's way too expensive for us, we really want to be paying £50/60 each for a complete demo. Dont know whether that's realistic at all really at £150-£170 total? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 yeh I could do 3-4 song demo deals for £150 I guess I actually found out at the weekend that there's a studio in Stoke doing £10/hr... fuck knows how they're making money. Anyway, I honestly think my stuff sounnds good enough to stand out above most of the local places. I just need to get a building now and make it nice and comfortable/clean/professional looking Thanks for the kind word Crowella. The CJ album was actually recorded on an old "studiomaster" desk I bought for £15... Turd-polishing is my speciality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord MFC Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 yeh I could do 3-4 song demo deals for £150 I guess I actually found out at the weekend that there's a studio in Stoke doing £10/hr... fuck knows how they're making money. Anyway, I honestly think my stuff sounnds good enough to stand out above most of the local places. I just need to get a building now and make it nice and comfortable/clean/professional looking Thanks for the kind word Crowella. The CJ album was actually recorded on an old "studiomaster" desk I bought for £15... Turd-polishing is my speciality. That seems good! I think you need to advertise it like packages - so they give you £150 and you'll say that gets them the 4 song CD by the end of it. I think it sounds really profesional tbh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthijs Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Shouldn't be put in songs, just in time. Could mention something like: approximately 3 to 4 songs. All depends on their own playing doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 yeh, and the standards they're aiming for... I guess getting agreement between the band and engineer/producer is one of the hardest things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic. Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 There's a studio near me that seems to offer reasonable kinda rates https://www.facebook.com/audiobeachstudios.brighton/info Recording & Production 10am - 5pm: Seven Days a Week £160 - includes engineer, full use of equipment, CD 6pm - Midnight: Tuesday - Friday £160 - includes engineer, full use of equipment, CD Additional Hours (add-on) £30ph - 5pm - Midnight £45ph - after Midnight, max 2 extra hours All prices above are for straight recording & mixing. If you are looking for production and/or arrangement/song writing help, please contact us for advice and prices. We have in-house session musicians if needed and the rates are very reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 that sounds about right, thanks for that, most appreciated. I think I need to concentrate my comparisons on studios close to me, but then there are a couple of places totally undercutting the market, which is good for no one. When I'm established I might contact them, see if we can't get a cartel going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Good point. Never agree to do x amount of songs, only establish the amount of time theyre paying for. That helps to reduce the amount of dicking about that goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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