LP7: Drones

[WeirdF]

I don't mean written credit, I mean people generally don't think about the producer. Someone will say "omg did you hear the new song by X, it's so good!" not "omg did you hear the new song sung by X and produced by Y, it's so good!"

[LewisF]

I still think it's a shame, regardless whether or not the producer gets credit, that many artists nowadays are incapable of writing a decent song without people helping them out, or in some cases, writing it for them.

[redneonfish]

I still think it's a shame, regardless whether or not the producer gets credit, that many artists nowadays are incapable of writing a decent song without people helping them out, or in some cases, writing it for them.

 

Many artists? So you've got the statistics to hand that backup that point? I don't see why you'd have a problem with someone being helped to write a song. Songs aren't created in a vacuum.

[Peter.]

What if the producer writes a raw song though

 

 

 

you're funny sometimes.

[Hat]

I still think it's a shame, regardless whether or not the producer gets credit, that many artists nowadays are incapable of writing a decent song without people helping them out, or in some cases, writing it for them.

I don't see the issue at all. The are musicians, and then there are singers. The latter makes their living by singing songs wrote by songwriters, who are often people who enjoy making music but can't/don't want to perform it. It's really not a "disgusting" process.

 

You don't ever hear crap about people in bands who aren't part of the songwriting process.

[FabriPav]

How long until this becomes a "real music vs pop" thing?

[Dockertae]

I still think it's a shame, regardless whether or not the producer gets credit, that many artists nowadays are incapable of writing a decent song without people helping them out, or in some cases, writing it for them.

 

Not to be a dick to you personally but I'm pretty sure that pop stars writing their own stuff is actually much more common now than it used to be. For instance when The Beatles started out basically all pop bands were given their material from writing teams like Goffin & King. The Beatles were unusual for insisting all their singles be self-composed, but even then 50% of their first 5 albums are covers.

 

To contrast, even groups like Take That write their own stuff.

[Hat]

Also I doubt the issue is that popstars can't write their own songs, the problem is that they're not hit makers.

[Peter.]

I think art is a process of creation. people who perform music that was written for them are performers/entertainers rather than artists.

 

yes, bands have songwriters and "simple" musicians as well, but usually all of them take part in the creative process (or PRODUCTION ) there's a difference between this and, "hey xy popstar, I and the team wrote this, sing it"

[FabriPav]

yes, bands have songwriters and "simple" musicians as well, but usually all of them take part in the creative process (or PRODUCTION ) there's a difference between this and, "hey xy popstar, I and the team wrote this, sing it"

 

Isn't recording the vocals part of the creative process (or PRODUCTION)?

[Hat]

I think art is a process of creation. people who perform music that was written for them are performers/entertainers rather than artists.

Yep.

yes, bands have songwriters and "simple" musicians as well, but usually all of them take part in the creative process (or PRODUCTION ) there's a difference between this and, "hey xy popstar, I and the team wrote this, sing it"

Pointless distinction though, because the reason entertainers don't do the same is because it's simply not how that sort of process works, not to mention that there aren't really that many instruments for a entertainer to be playing in pop.

 

Also I'd say it's fairly common these days for pop singers to be quite involved in the songwriting process anyway. Maybe not doing a lot, but certainly comparable to less-creative parts of bands.

[LewisF]

It's not so bad that people help the performers write the songs, but many people who enjoy these acts are totally unaware that it is not, in fact, the performer's own song.

[Hat]

It's not so bad that people help the performers write the songs, but many people who enjoy these acts are totally unaware that it is not, in fact, the performer's own song.

Who are these "many" people that you keep mentioning? I've never met anyone above the age of like 14 who doesn't understand that this is the case. Go into any random discussion about pop singers and you'll find arguments about how talentless they are because they don't even write their own songs. #borninlewronggeneration

[Alec Ferris]

I don't see the issue at all. The are musicians, and then there are singers. The latter makes their living by singing songs wrote by songwriters, who are often people who enjoy making music but can't/don't want to perform it. It's really not a "disgusting" process.

 

You don't ever hear crap about people in bands who aren't part of the songwriting process.

 

It's not even like all vocalists are songwriters. In Mastodon and Meshuggah the bloody drummer writes most of the songs.

[LewisF]

But what if the people under the age of 14 continue believing? Then more and more people will stop realising the truth and less and less will.

[FabriPav]

But what if the people under the age of 14 continue believing? Then more and more people will stop realising the truth and less and less will.

deep

[Hat]

Yeah I think there are way worse things for kids to grow up internalizing than ideas of who writes pop songs.

[LewisF]

Yeah I think there are way worse things for kids to grow up internalizing than ideas of who writes pop songs.

 

It's just one thing.

[Hat]

It's just one thing.

Wait you were serious?

 

So hey, how about that producer guy Muse have hired

[Chagi]

But what if the people under the age of 14 continue believing? Then more and more people will stop realising the truth and less and less will.

 

illuminati

[Alec Ferris]

So hey, how about that producer guy Muse have hired

 

He's gonna to turn them into AC/DC mixed with Shania Twain and make them cover Nickelback.

[Mrcookie]

Wait you were serious?

 

So hey, how about that producer guy Muse have hired

 

Screw that; somebody please think of the children!! :pope:

 

On-topic, I think he's brought in as a sparring partner for the band to discuss ideas/concepts/material with. Like an outside opinion to things they have recorded so far. But maybe I'm far off.

[Tim59]

I don't mean written credit, I mean people generally don't think about the producer. Someone will say "omg did you hear the new song by X, it's so good!" not "omg did you hear the new song sung by X and produced by Y, it's so good!"

 

I'm sure producers don't mind this. They get their money and not the bullshit that comes with fame.

[Unidentifiable]

I'm sure producers don't mind this. They get their money and not the bullshit that comes with fame.

 

Or just bring out the song as "by Producer, feat. Artist X" or whatever. TBH I think the majority of talent that should set you apart in popular music is the songwriting, that ability to connect musically and/or lyrically. If you just want highly technically proficient singing or instrument playing, listen to an orchestra or any school choir (or the theatre if your big thing is performing arts).

 

And, although this area of chat generally sucks, I think that the mixer's job (evening out the EQ range to let individual sections shine, capturing a certain "mood", avoiding noise clipping, etc.) is more important than producer, seeing as their role seems that vague. I thought the mixing/mastering stuff was what a producer does, until I looked into things more closely. Of course, when the producer is also the mixer, this point is redundant

[kueller]

Or just bring out the song as "by Producer, feat. Artist X" or whatever. TBH I think the majority of talent that should set you apart in popular music is the songwriting, that ability to connect musically and/or lyrically. If you just want highly technically proficient singing or instrument playing, listen to an orchestra or any school choir (or the theatre if your big thing is performing arts).

 

And, although this area of chat generally sucks, I think that the mixer's job (evening out the EQ range to let individual sections shine, capturing a certain "mood", avoiding noise clipping, etc.) is more important than producer, seeing as their role seems that vague. I thought the mixing/mastering stuff was what a producer does, until I looked into things more closely. Of course, when the producer is also the mixer, this point is redundant

 

But it's about the performer that's released. You don't really give the academy award to "Screenwriter feat. Actor". And it's not like the songwriters aren't aware of this when they sign up for it. And it is like an orchestra. The kind of thing an orchestra does doesn't have to be limited to an orchestra alone.

 

And I've always been of the mindset that the mood and sound of a record is primarily based on the recording input not the mixed output, in which case there's a producer's importance. At least as far as I can tell from Muse's history.