Do you find that "hipsters" often hate Muse? And is it mainly because of Pitchfork?

[Banksy.]

But what I'm saying is that despite this lack of religion, people still find purpose to carry on. They still find things that make them get up in the morning. Dreams, goals, family and friends, love etc. I find it a lot more sad that people don't have anything better to hold on to than the idea of a God and that something better will come in the life after this one. How is that not sad?

 

I think it's more than a little stupid to say that the only reason people might be religious is because they can't cope with the lack of a greater purpose.

[eyduh]

And, regardless... even if your life is amazing, the though of oblivion... who WOULDN'T want something more?

 

you do realize some people are content with what they have right now? or is that a completely foreign concept to you?

 

I think it's more than a little stupid to say that the only reason people might be religious is because they can't cope with the lack of a greater purpose.

 

Yes but that isn't what we're talking about. The OP said they felt sad for the people who are atheists, because they don't have "something to look forward to" after death. Nobody is calling religious people stupid, but rather the notion that you have to be religious in order to be happy.

[serpentsatellite]

you do realize some people are content with what they have right now? or is that a completely foreign concept to you?

 

I've periodically been very happy with my life. Doesn't make me feel a lot better about death, though, just made me think about it less often.

Granted that's not the only reason people turn to religion, but it's an important (and historical) one.

 

My original question was this: if there was an alternative, why would anyone pick oblivion after death? I don't care how happy someone is now, it would still be more comfortable to believe life doesn't just end.

[Hat]

It might be a bit "sad" in the limited frame of the example you gave.

Assuming someone's living "the American dream" or has things to look forward to, yes, sometimes you have to wonder why they would need more.

(Except for that nasty bit about death and oblivion...)

 

But how about people who are sick, suffering, dying? Alone? Going through the loss of someone special?

Born into poverty or wartorn environments?

It's more often those times when the pure meaninglessness of it all is apparent, and an issue.

 

And, regardless... even if your life is amazing, the though of oblivion... who WOULDN'T want something more?

You were the one who limited it to begin with though? Obviously I'm not calling religion sad. Well...I thought it was obvious. You were the one who felt sad for atheists due to not having a meaning to their life or any belief in the afterlife.

I think it's more than a little stupid to say that the only reason people might be religious is because they can't cope with the lack of a greater purpose.

Yeah because that's totally what I said.

[Banksy.]

Yes but that isn't what we're talking about. The OP said they felt sad for the people who are atheists, because they don't have "something to look forward to" after death. Nobody is calling religious people stupid, but rather the notion that you have to be religious in order to be happy.

 

Yeah, I feared that I had misinterpreted what Simon was saying after I posted. How ironic that I implied he was the one being stupid.

[eyduh]

My original question was this: if there was an alternative, why would anyone pick oblivion after death? I don't care how happy someone is now, it would still be more comfortable to believe life doesn't just end.

 

but oblivion is just like the time before you were born. you don't exist, you don't know anything

 

i'd rather take that than a chance of burning in hell for all eternity

[serpentsatellite]

You were the one who limited it to begin with though? Obviously I'm not calling religion sad. Well...I thought it was obvious. You were the one who felt sad for atheists due to not having a meaning to their life or any belief in the afterlife.

 

Not sure I limited it, although more strongly focusing on the death issue than anything, but that's just personal.

 

Yeah, I do... maybe not "sad"... but "empathetic"... maybe would be a better word.

I know how hard it's been for me to deal with sometimes, and I would never wish others to feel this way.

Not saying everyone WOULD feel this way, but empathising with those that would.

 

Facing a case, say, where someone has recently passed away... and watching that person's peers give them the "they're in a better place" line, while knowing the person doesn't believe that... That's more where my original comment in that direction came from.

People always seem to say atheism is the "easy" or "lazy" way, and that's just not it at all.

[Hat]

My original question was this: if there was an alternative, why would anyone pick oblivion after death? I don't care how happy someone is now, it would still be more comfortable to believe life doesn't just end.

I don't get why I would limit my current life, and say no to pretty much most things that I enjoy, just so that I can have an afterlife though. Since most religions have incredibly hard rules on how you should live your life.

 

Well, unless you pick and choose what parts of the religion you want to believe is necessary though.

[Hat]

Not sure I limited it, although more strongly focusing on the death issue than anything, but that's just personal.

 

Yeah, I do... maybe not "sad"... but "empathetic"... maybe would be a better word.

I know how hard it's been for me to deal with sometimes, and I would never wish others to feel this way.

Not saying everyone WOULD feel this way, but empathising with those that would.

 

Facing a case, say, where someone has recently passed away... and watching that person's peers give them the "they're in a better place" line, while knowing the person doesn't believe that... That's more where my original comment in that direction came from.

People always seem to say atheism is the "easy" or "lazy" way, and that's just not it at all.

The problem though is that you literally said atheists "lack the comforts of meaning to life", which is a statement that is beyond ridiculous.

[serpentsatellite]

I don't get why I would limit my current life, and say no to pretty much most things that I enjoy, just so that I can have an afterlife though. Since most religions have incredibly hard rules on how you should live your life.

 

Well, unless you pick and choose what parts of the religion you want to believe is necessary though.

 

There has, historically, been a lot of religions that haven't had this sort of stipulation... but I think it's been a long, long time. Societies and goverments realized what a great control scheme this was very early on, I'm sure.

If we like Devil's Advocate, though... isn't saying someone doesn't want to be religious so they can choose to live their life anyway they want just the opposite side of saying someone wants to be religious to find comfort or meaning?

 

but oblivion is just like the time before you were born. you don't exist, you don't know anything

 

i'd rather take that than a chance of burning in hell for all eternity

 

This is actually something I thought about for ages, years ago.

At the time, I was completely convinced I would rather be ANYwhere, even in Hell, than nowhere.

For some reason, I'm just completely terrified by the concept of oblivion.

 

The problem though is that you literally said atheists "lack the comforts of meaning to life", which is a statement that is beyond ridiculous.

 

There's a difference in finding meaning in your OWN life, and there being an overall meaning to life in general, though...

[eyduh]

There's a difference in finding meaning in your OWN life, and there being an overall meaning to life in general, though...

 

Yes but that's the thing -- everybody has their own individual thoughts about life. Which is why you can't quite generalize the meaning of life. People die all the time, and are forgotten in a few decades. It's a scary concept given how egoistical we are about our lives, but it's the truth.

[Hat]

If we like Devil's Advocate, though... isn't saying someone doesn't want to be religious so they can choose to live their life anyway they want just the opposite side of saying someone wants to be religious to find comfort or meaning?

It's probably because I'm really tired but I don't get what you're saying at all

 

There's a difference in finding meaning in your OWN life, and there being an overall meaning to life in general, though...

That's not a difference you made clear though...

 

And in either case, it's a weird conclusion to made. To pity(okay, empathize with) people because they lack a book saying "this is the meaning of your life", implying that it's something people actually need. Obviously loads of people struggle to find meaning in their lives, but these people DO usually turn to religion, simply because it gives them answers. Which brings me back to the point that it's them you should feel sorry for.

[serpentsatellite]

Yes but that's the thing -- everybody has their own individual thoughts about life. Which is why you can't quite generalize the meaning of life. People die all the time, and are forgotten in a few decades. It's a scary concept given how egoistical we are about our lives, but it's the truth.

 

I often feel like self-awareness was an evolutionary mistake...

 

For me, it was too hard to deal with people, especially children, who were born into short lives and constant suffering, with my beliefs being what they are.

I think there's a reason a lot of doctors tend to be religious, when you think it would likely be the opposite.

But, makes it seem like some people are born into lives with the potential for "meaning" and others aren't.

I can make the most of my life, but in general... I just want more than that.

[FabriPav]

I often feel like self-awareness was an evolutionary mistake...

 

[Hat]

Btw just to make it clear once again, I'm not saying religion, or even religious people are sad. I'm saying I feel sorry for people who need religion to find a meaning with their life. And that's not in spite or in any way making fun of it. I really find it sad that people have that little going for them in their lives.

[serpentsatellite]

It's probably because I'm really tired but I don't get what you're saying at all

 

And in either case, it's a weird conclusion to made. To pity(okay, empathize with) people because they lack a book saying "this is the meaning of your life", implying that it's something people actually need. Obviously loads of people struggle to find meaning in their lives, but these people DO usually turn to religion, simply because it gives them answers. Which brings me back to the point that it's them you should feel sorry for.

 

I guess I don't see why I would feel sorry for someone who decided to do something that made them happier in life.

Especially when that thing doesn't affect me one iota (I believe was the original point of asking why people would care if Muse was religious... )

 

I don't know a lot of other atheists, because not many of them walk around announcing it. And I know shitloads of religious people.

Of the atheists I know, one is a complete cock about how it makes him smarter, but the other is going through just an awful situation (which is how I found out in the first place) and, yeah, I truly empathise with their inability to find comfort or meaning to what happened.

Mainly because I've been through similar in my past.

[serpentsatellite]

 

I'm not saying I don't enjoy it, but it feels like it's not done wonders for the planet, or the race.

[sade]

But what I'm saying is that despite this lack of religion, people still find purpose to carry on. They still find things that make them get up in the morning. Dreams, goals, family and friends, love etc. I find it a lot more sad that people don't have anything better to hold on to than the idea of a God and that something better will come in the life after this one. How is that not sad?

 

Obviously loads of people struggle to find meaning in their lives, but these people DO usually turn to religion, simply because it gives them answers. Which brings me back to the point that it's them you should feel sorry for.

 

IF religion truly is the only thing that keeps people carrying on, then yes, it's sad, but I would imagine for the majority of religious people it's the same things as for atheists- family, friends, romance, interests, etc. So it doesn't really have to be one extreme or another.

 

(Referring to your previous comment "If someone needs religion to give them purpose and meaning in life, aren't they the ones you should be feeling sorry for?" which I assume you then meant to mean "all the purpose and meaning in life")

[Hat]

I guess I don't see why I would feel sorry for someone who decided to do something that made them happier in life.

Especially when that thing doesn't affect me one iota (I believe was the original point of asking why people would care if Muse was religious... )

 

I don't know a lot of other atheists, because not many of them walk around announcing it. And I know shitloads of religious people.

Of the atheists I know, one is a complete cock about how it makes him smarter, but the other is going through just an awful situation (which is how I found out in the first place) and, yeah, I truly empathise with their inability to find comfort or meaning to what happened.

Mainly because I've been through similar in my past.

But that's one single person. Wasn't it you who tried to tried to tell me that there was a difference?

 

Also the problem is still the implication that without religion, people have nothing to fall back on. Just because there isn't a universal book of rules. Most of these people still have things that give them meaning. Obviously for some that's not the case, but it's not a reason to pity everyone who lacks religion.

IF religion truly is the only thing that keeps people carrying on, then yes, it's sad, but I would imagine for the majority of religious people it's the same things as for atheists- family, friends, romance, interests, etc. So it doesn't really have to be one extreme or another.

 

(Referring to your previous comment "If someone needs religion to give them purpose and meaning in life, aren't they the ones you should be feeling sorry for?" which I assume you then meant to mean "all the purpose and meaning in life")

I know, my point was made to counter her extreme example of the opposite. I'm not saying religious people only have the religion to keep them from losing purpose.

[Seaking]

This has fucking nothing to do with hipsters! This is fucking serious so get back on topic so help me God.

[Furygirl]

Thank God/Darwin/cats/whoever for James. Indeed, there are plenty of religion threads already, and this isn't one of them.

[Hat]

I know, my point was made to counter her extreme example of the opposite. I'm not saying religious people only have the religion to keep them from losing purpose.

I am too tired. Realised I worded this poorly, so here we go again.

 

She implied that people without religion has nothing that gives them meaning, so I countered with that if religion is the only thing that gives people meaning, their lives are pretty sad.

 

That doesn't mean I don't think religious people don't have other things that give them meaning, it's just a way to show her how faulty her argument is.

[FabriPav]

Wasn't Jesus hipster afterall?

 

 

 

 

Think about it.

[Rhymes with Booze]

That's because they don't leave their houses.

 

Leaving the house is entirely too mainstream.

[serpentsatellite]

Leaving the house is entirely too mainstream.

 

I still have no idea what a hipster is, then.

 

Here, people who don't leave the house are just fat old guys who live in mom's basement, play World of Warcraft, and eat Hot Pockets...

That doesn't sound very hipster.

Quite mainstream, probably...

 

I don't have any data on if that demographic is into Muse, though. They don't get out much, or articulate well.