BHAR damaged by the Loudness War

[spark_]

To dig this up again, I've spent a while re-mixing Hysteria using the separated Guitar Hero tracks available for this song. This is far from just merging the tracks as I've also applied a lot of EQ tweaks and have modified various bits of it to make the song better reflect the arrangement of the album version (in Guitar Hero, certain bits are artificially amplified to assist with the game).

 

The end result (IMO) is a clear, dynamic and decidedly punchy version of Hysteria which also has a bit of additional kick to the final chorus. And all this from a bunch of Guitar Hero MP3s and an ageing copy of Adobe Audition 1.5.

 

I'd be interested in feedback. Like it? Prefer the album version for some reason? Or does it just serve as a stark note of just how much the sound on the album has been compromised due to compression and limiting. It's available on Muselive.com here.

 

Do note that it's more of an example of just how much hidden potential still exists in Muse's albums if only they were to be remastered properly, rather than a definitive, perfect version or anything.

 

I love that. Will probably play this instead of the album version, the drums just sound so much crisper as well as everything else.

[nikomuse]

Love that mate! Keep up your job with other muse multis! Assassin for example

[Novus Dies]

If there is something I love, it's guitarists trying to argue about audio.

[haze015]

If there is something I love, it's guitarists trying to argue about audio.

 

Get on the Harmony Central forums for that.

[mint]

To dig this up again, I've spent a while re-mixing Hysteria using the separated Guitar Hero tracks available for this song. This is far from just merging the tracks as I've also applied a lot of EQ tweaks and have modified various bits of it to make the song better reflect the arrangement of the album version (in Guitar Hero, certain bits are artificially amplified to assist with the game).

 

Do note that it's more of an example of just how much hidden potential still exists in Muse's albums if only they were to be remastered properly, rather than a definitive, perfect version or anything.

 

That is awesome and disheartening at the same time, make me wonder how much more I would have listened to Absolution if it had all sounded like this. I would say it could be about 4db louder without loosing any sound quality.

The whole loudness war thing discourages repeat listening without most people knowing why, it also seems to make sod all difference to record sales.

[Burning_October]

I do like this mix, sounds kinda like is Abso had been recordes OOS style. That being said, it IS kinda disheartening, just because you can hear so much potential. Also, I think that the clearer mix really exposes how badly the drums were recorded (seriously, they have NO punch to them). The only other thing I can think of is that some detail gets lost in the final chorus, and the vocals may be a little too pushed back in the first verse, but this is all just personal taste. Overall, great job, and i'd love to see you do more of these with the other Muse multi-tracks.

[Dangerman]

Thanks for the quick reply. That is a shame... I was really hoping that wasn't the case.

I guess all we can do is wait and hope for a re-release at some point later down the line.

 

I hope they do a re-recorded complination with 5.1/high stero quaility of all their albums discorgpahy in the future soon .

[Don'tPostThePear]

I do like this mix, sounds kinda like is Abso had been recordes OOS style. That being said, it IS kinda disheartening, just because you can hear so much potential. Also, I think that the clearer mix really exposes how badly the drums were recorded (seriously, they have NO punch to them). The only other thing I can think of is that some detail gets lost in the final chorus, and the vocals may be a little too pushed back in the first verse, but this is all just personal taste. Overall, great job, and i'd love to see you do more of these with the other Muse multi-tracks.

 

i would remix/remaster KoC too, however if that solo guitar and solo bass track is real what i downloaded a while ago we should be happy about the (shitty) outcome.

 

i like this multitrack thing tough, i would try to master one, altough i don't know where to get muse multi tracks, there was a good channel for them on youtube but warner fucked up that.

[Trippynet]

That is awesome and disheartening at the same time, make me wonder how much more I would have listened to Absolution if it had all sounded like this. I would say it could be about 4db louder without loosing any sound quality.

The whole loudness war thing discourages repeat listening without most people knowing why, it also seems to make sod all difference to record sales.

 

The track has been run through MP3Gain (as all my music has) which volume levels it with all my other stuff. You can crank an extra couple of dB out of it without clipping by simply loading it into MP3Gain and selecting to undo the changes. This will knock the volume up without re-encoding or anything.

 

Don'tPostThePear: All of the multi-track files can be downloaded from Muselive. That's where I got the bits for this one anyway! For most of the others though, it can be a bit more difficult to get the same effect as with Hysteria. Stockholm Syndrome for instance mixes the piano in with the vocals, but turns the volume of it way down. Hence there's almost no audible piano and that spoils things - despite the extra punch of the drums. For the likes of Knights of Cydonia and the other BHAR multi-track files, the drums are only provided as one mixed-together track. Hence, it's harder to get the same levels of punch without the cymbals etc. sounding way too loud and distracting.

 

Hysteria on the other hand was perfect to mix together as the snare, kick and room portions of the drums were separated (hence easier to brighten the snare without making the cymbals sound too tinny), plus there's no piano in it for GH to turn right down and smother out of the mix. End result, it's one of the only separated Muse tracks where freedom over pretty much all the instruments is available.

[Don'tPostThePear]

Don'tPostThePear: All of the multi-track files can be downloaded from Muselive. That's where I got the bits for this one anyway! For most of the others though, it can be a bit more difficult to get the same effect as with Hysteria. Stockholm Syndrome for instance mixes the piano in with the vocals, but turns the volume of it way down. Hence there's almost no audible piano and that spoils things - despite the extra punch of the drums. For the likes of Knights of Cydonia and the other BHAR multi-track files, the drums are only provided as one mixed-together track. Hence, it's harder to get the same levels of punch without the cymbals etc. sounding way too loud and distracting.

 

Hysteria on the other hand was perfect to mix together as the snare, kick and room portions of the drums were separated (hence easier to brighten the snare without making the cymbals sound too tinny), plus there's no piano in it for GH to turn right down and smother out of the mix. End result, it's one of the only separated Muse tracks where freedom over pretty much all the instruments is available.

 

 

i gonna try hysteria then for the fun, i have never mixed audio tracks before, just midi vst stuff and i am a noob at it, my mixes are sonding better by every new track i make and it is not because they are getting really good but because i am such a noob that improving is easy now.

[croekk]

While The Resistance is much better than Black Holes in that regard there's still some pretty bad sounding bits.

 

Just play the 'loud part' of Cross-Pollination and listen to the 's' sounds ('tell us your final wish' ugh). I didn't even know about the loudness war when I first heard it but I remember thinking 'how on earth can they put a record out like this?'

[Trippynet]

I do agree with you to some degree. The Resistance is a country mile better than BHAR and Absolution, but isn't perfect. Just 9 seconds into the start of Uprising you can hear the blatant compression pumping as the crash cymbal is hit and the volume of it then rises and falls several times in line with the beat. There's also audible compression pumping and distortion towards the heavier end bit of Resistance as well.

 

On the other hand, the drums are lovely and punchy on it and the distortion is far more minimal than it is on BHAR. Hence I do massively prefer the sound of The Resistance, even though it has still suffered a bit due to the modern obsession with loudness above quality.

 

I really, really look forward to a time when a band as good as Muse can actually ask their mastering engineer to "Make it sound as good as possible" instead of just requesting "Make it sound loud".

[jutta]

I run a dedicated reference CD player --> PreAmp (with HT bypass and SUB .1 integration) --> PowerAmp and always thought the Resistance was one of the better sounding recent recording on my system.

Then I tracked down a Ltd Ed Box Set with the 5.1 DTS mix on DVD.

WOW

 

I run it thru the Bluray Player --> Processor --> PreAmp -- PowerAmp --> Speakers/Sub

 

It is awesome. So far ahead of the CD with dynamics and clarity.

The Resistance pumps, great opener. I know Guiding Light is not a punters favourite but it sounds incredible the bass/snare/cymbal intro.

The synthesised beat/drums in Undisclosed Desires is HUGE

The kick drum in Unnatural Selection - again WOW

 

And Exogenis is powerfully emotional at reference levels

 

I'd love to see all the albums remastered and released on DVD or even better Bluray in 5.1 or 5.2 or even 7.2 surround.

[croekk]

I'm listening to Audio Fidelity's 2010 remaster of Simon & Garfunkels Sounds of Silence right now. Man music can sound so good. Even when it's 40 years old. Just shows you what's possible.

[croekk]

*bump*

 

I'm trying to compile a live version of BH&R that is listenable on a good system. Obviously the sound quality needs to be good (no crappy audience recordings). Any suggestions/links are welcome.

[ninsp]

People don't realize that Map was supposed to sound distorted and crunchy. This is coming from an audiophile. The distortion at the beginnings adds to the thick dense atmosphere of the song. Fairly certain it was intended, as Knights isn't really distorted badly.

[Minimal]

Maybe next time, when we've moved on to something much better than a CD, bands can release two versions of their albums. One mastered correctly and one mastered loudly.

 

Then again there's probably a "commercial" reason not to do so. For now I struggle to listen to MotP. So muffled.

[haze015]

Maybe next time, when we've moved on to something much better than a CD, bands can release two versions of their albums. One mastered correctly and one mastered loudly.

 

Then again there's probably a "commercial" reason not to do so. For now I struggle to listen to MotP. So muffled.

 

There's nothing wrong with CDs, it's just bad mastering, nothing to do with the medium at all.

[Minimal]

There's nothing wrong with CDs.

 

Not the CD but the volume. Future mediums should be able to fit more so I guess there would be extra space to fit another version of the album?

 

And by volume I meant space.

[Minimal]

Also I don't know if anyone posted this before but I'll post it anyways.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

[haze015]

Not the CD but the volume. Future mediums should be able to fit more so I guess there would be extra space to fit another version of the album?

 

There's no reason to do that.

 

The moment someone has a massive selling album which is mastered properly, everything will change, the industry only goes by what is currently selling and won't change until someone changes everything.

 

Muse's albums would still sell by the bucketload regardless of how they are mastered, they don't need to be loud to sell.

 

Oh and CDs have 90dB of dynamic range, in all honesty, there's no reason for anything higher, 24bit is useful for recording, but makes sod all difference in the real world, as who listens to music at 100dB?

[spark_]

Best thread revive ever

[Disassociative]

You think this is bad mastering? Listen to Nirvana's boxset. Clipping/Distortion overload.

[Riveon]

Best thread revive ever

Oh really?

[haze015]

You think this is bad mastering? Listen to Nirvana's boxset. Clipping/Distortion overload.

 

Wasn't that lots of unreleased stuff & demos?

 

Not comparable at all. A lot of albums like that will contain disclaimers about clipping as there's little that can be done about it. Plus clipping isn't the only sign of bad mastering, just the most obvious.

 

Also I don't know if anyone posted this before but I'll post it anyways.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

 

I hate that video because mastering isn't done in that way as that's normalising RMS, which no master engineer does to a recording. Not to mention, the original recording would have already been mastered in the first place.