devotionalee Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Ladies & gentlemen... this is Map of the problematique: Congratulations to all the people involved in the mastering process; thanks for destroying the album and my ears http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicdeath.htm http://brianstagg.co.uk/p_t_a_clipressed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Ok? Ever heard of limiting and compression? Also, my electronic stuff looks alot like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devotionalee Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 read the links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 read the links I don't need to, I already know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperium Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Ladies & gentlemen... this is Map of the problematique: Congratulations to all the people involved in the mastering process; thanks for destroying the album and my ears http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicdeath.htm http://brianstagg.co.uk/p_t_a_clipressed/ super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ducky101 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Awesome. Muse you gits.. you rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Those links weren't really accurate, one of them was going on about the sound as 'clipping', technically, that isn't actually happening. It's an effect known as 'Limiting', this is used to prevent the sound from clipping. What producers/mixers do, is put limiting on the whole track. Then apply a similar effect called 'Compression' to each instrument/track to lower the dynamic range and boost that track's volume, they may argue that this is 'perceived' loudness, it is actually getting louder, if the Limiting effect wasn't there, you'd hear lots of clipping (Distortion) in the final track. Also what Compression does is it boosts less pronounced frequencies and harmonics within the sound, making it sound bigger and fatter. Pretty much every CD you buy now, the instruments would originally have about 2 layers of compression, one when they are being recorded, to prevent initial clipping, then another to boost the volume to the point of nearly clipping, then maybe have another layer of compression on the whole track, with Limiting to prevent clipping. Doing that results in something like the image below. I hope that make sense, maybe read it a couple of times and google anything that doesn't make sense. Whether or not this is a good or a bad thing really depends on the music. But you don't really need images to hear limiting and compression. Also, there are other techniques that can be used to make something louder on record, such as EQ, EQ has more to do with 'perceived' volume than effects like Limiting or Compression. The reason for making it as loud as possible is partly to get it noticed on radio or TV, but also, musicians just like everything stupidly loud, constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainbored Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Congratulations to all the people involved in the mastering process; thanks for destroying the album and my ears Just because its been cut at high levels doesn't mean you have to listen to it loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarki_666 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 The reason for making it as loud as possible is partly to get it noticed on radio or TV, but also, musicians just like everything stupidly loud, constantly. Being a musician myself I can tell you that this 100% totally and utterly, completely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperium Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Being a musician myself I can tell you that this 100% totally and utterly, completely correct. oh yes, its rock music, its meant to be loud, in your face and piss off the neighbours!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypermused Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 wtf?!! another completely pointless thread.. complaining about crap.. so annoyed with ppl slagging off the most littlest of things if you open stockholm syndrome you'll see it looks similar.. and loads of others... try using your VOLUME button /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelticKnight Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 This is Hyper Music... Looks virtually the same. Was anyone complaining then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypermused Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 This is Hyper Music... Looks virtually the same. Was anyone complaining then? lol, exactly.. good choice of song by the way lets tell muse to turn down next time shall we... jeez... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroPenguin Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 the job of the mixer is to get the levels as hot as possible, anything smaller would sound terrible if you were to put any other CD before or after you play that one. it would sound incredibly quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Also, to add to my previous lecture: Nothing on record actually sounds anything like how it actually sounded at the time, regardless of how many, or how little, effects you put on the sound. For example, a drum kit sounds nothing like they sound on record. Microphones get placed inside the bass drum, right next to the snare, you have a couple of mics over the drum kit (Known as 'Overheads'), aswell as individual mics for each drum, maybe more underneath if you've not got laid for a while. None of that is how you'd listen to a drum kit, you don't stick your head inside the bass drum, or your ears right next to the snare, but that's what you're hearing on record. So what I'm leading up to is, what you hear on record is very false to start with, so altering dynamics to make the whole track louder (Remember, 'perceived' volume is a result of EQ, not the dynamics, which actually makes things louder, just seem bigger, fatter) isn't really any worse than sticking a mic in the bass drum, or a mic touching the grille cloth on a guitar speaker cab with the amp cranked up, or adding reverb to vocals because they have been recorded in an environment to be as dry as possible. The one issue I do have is some of the silly mixing on Absolution, with all the filtering and volume jumps and stuff. Someone do SS for me please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypermused Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Stockholme Syndrome... 5 minutes of pure excellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 What the hell I have no idea whats going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OD-Musik Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Whoever says "turn the volume down" is missing the point of the thread. When the whole song runs at 100%, you have almost no dynamics. Everything is constantly "loud." Its hard to explain, but if you let the dynamics sing, you will of course need to reduce the overall volume but it sounds much more..dynamic. Lol. Organic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypermused Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Whoever says "turn the volume down" is missing the point of the thread. When the whole song runs at 100%, you have almost no dynamics. Everything is constantly "loud." Its hard to explain, but if you let the dynamics sing, you will of course need to reduce the overall volume but it sounds much more..dynamic. Lol. Organic. no, i understand the whole dynamics thing..muse do have a lot of loud songs.. but they're never "dynamic-less".. duno how they do it sometimes! its the fact they said "it hurt my ears".. which is a physical thing.. hence my volume comment .. nothing is "too loud".. or else it would distort.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerpin Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 This thread is going nowhere. You can make a track explode by good use of panning and leveling, and eq, and if you've done your job, it will hit you no matter if the levels are crushed or not. Still, I'm against dynamic rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Stockholme Syndrome... 5 minutes of pure excellence You can see the volume jumps in the song. (At the start, if there was no dynamics and everything was loud, you would have one green block, as you can see, that doesn't happen until the verse kicks in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oprah Noodlemantra Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Loud Noises!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 My 3rd Lecture: What you are seeing in these images is the whole track, not each track individually, so that doesn't actually prove that there isn't any dynamics. Just that is something pretty much maxed out constantly. If we could see each track individually, then you could claim the dynamics have been 'raped', but the whole thing with each track doesn't prove alot to be honest. I've done songs which look alot like that, and it was purely a result of the drum loop I used, when the drum loop wasn't going, you could see all the other instruments rising and falling in volume and they could all be heard clearly. As you can probably tell, I haven't yet got BH&R (No money at all), so I haven't had a chance to really listen to everything in detail. As for dynamic 'rape', if the music you're recording is about dynamics, then, yes you could argue it's a bad thing, but things like dance music, that's not really about dynamics, if you were playing blues, then yes, you'd want the dynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAM Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Loud Noises!!! LMAO! :LOL: :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroPenguin Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 just look at songs like Take A Bow, Ruled By Secrecy, Space Dementia, Invincible for example those have dynamics. the dynamics depend on what suits the song. some songs dynamics are necessary to keep it interesting, others are meant to be a loud headbanging spree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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