Signal Path

[StandYourGround]

Hey guys, so i recently started reading up on MIDI switching systems. Its a bit expensive for me but I'm intrigued all the same. Could someone draw a diagram of what bellamys signal flow would look like? I'd imagine it'd be: wireless>routing matrix>loop1>loop2>loop3 etc. But how does using the 3 amps come into play? Is the switching between amps and amp channels done with the midi contoller? Surely he'd need about 16loops with all that. Also, if someone could explain how the whammy/volume pedals are controlled using external expressions. that'd be great (particularly since he using remote ones for other parts of the stage yet they do the same things).

Also, how does he do the thing where he splits his signal to go DI'd to the desk etc? and how does his tech manage to run two controllers at once? (one for him, one for matt)

And finally if someone could explain how he manages to bring in his vocals and piano into the rig.

 

Basically what im asking is if someone could draw a diagram of the whole rig.

[Crowella]

I'm not too familiar with how he does his current rig but I can answer a few things.

 

These days, the effects are mostly, if not entirely controlled back stage, probably using the Rocktron All Access units.

 

The expression pedal is basically a MIDI control pedal. This means that it can connect up to the Whammy's external MIDI input and probably the volume control on the switching rig, or the like.

 

Amp's I believe may be using the same loop systems as the pedals and they will all likely be the end of the signal chain (sounds obvious, maybe?)

 

Vocals are crunched through some vocal processors and probably into PA. Again, pretty clueless but I would imagine the vocals and guitar paths don't cross.

 

EDIT: Here is the pedal board and rack from The Resistance era. Pretty much simplified on the ground.

[StandYourGround]

I'm not too familiar with how he does his current rig but I can answer a few things.

 

These days, the effects are mostly, if not entirely controlled back stage, probably using the Rocktron All Access units.

 

The expression pedal is basically a MIDI control pedal. This means that it can connect up to the Whammy's external MIDI input and probably the volume control on the switching rig, or the like.

 

Amp's I believe may be using the same loop systems as the pedals and they will all likely be the end of the signal chain (sounds obvious, maybe?)

 

Vocals are crunched through some vocal processors and probably into PA. Again, pretty clueless but I would imagine the vocals and guitar paths don't cross.

 

EDIT: Here is the pedal board and rack from The Resistance era. Pretty much simplified on the ground.

 

Thanks for the info!

The only reason i mention the vocals being part of the rig is because of what his tech said back in like '09.

For the amps, remember he's using the VH4 which has MIDI switching but is still using the Egnater+a power amp and the marshall superlead 100. I'd be interested as to how that works on the loop system.

I would've though the volume pedal would be the first thing it hits after the wireless units. Can't think of any reason why it'd be of use in a loop. As for the whammy. Will it take a expression pedal direct from the whammy itself or will it hit the loop system first before hitting the controller (liquid foot controller btw, he changed from rocktron for some reason). Because if it hits the controller first, then it means less miles of cable.

 

This is all before we even touch on the kaoss pad stuff. I imagine there is signal splitting going on there. Plus the Motp effect with the step sequenced pitch shifting. God knows how that all fits in.

[Impulse 101]

I'm sure that all of his expression pedals go directly to the MIDI controller. It would be a massive waste to do it any other way.

 

I'll start looking at his rig and see if Jason posted any stuff on it lately.

 

JT

[Phill]

How seedy is the photo of him stroking his whammy. If there was ever any doubt that he reads k&t I think that answers it!

[JimboMansonMB-1]

How seedy is the photo of him stroking his whammy. If there was ever any doubt that he reads k&t I think that answers it!

 

Chedda should be all over that!

[cheddatom]

How seedy is the photo of him stroking his whammy. If there was ever any doubt that he reads k&t I think that answers it!

 

I wouldn't call that "stroking". It's pretty creepy though - looks like he practices that rigid-finger pose.

[cheddatom]

Chedda should be all over that!

 

that would be delicious wouldn't it!

[Dave.]

It would be funny if he did read K&T

"Lol, they think I actually use a fuzz factory. I just have a squirrel in my guitar with a microphone. The knobs just vary the amount of electricity I slowly kill him with!"

[StandYourGround]

haha, number one rule of being in a band. If you're going to do a photoshoot, never go for the dark and bruding look.

 

OT: I think I've figured a lot of it out. I'm just confused as to how his amps are controlled. While the Diezel has MIDI switching I'm sure he only uses channel four. As for the vox, that would be always on the same channel i imagine? (note: he's changed from the vox to the egnater for some reason). And the for the marhsall, its modified to run the two channels together, so no switching there.

He does that thing where he blends the tone of amps. So how do you wire 3 amp heads that you are blending the sound of together into one cab when using a loop switching system. And when you've figured that out, how on earth do you start using DI tones as well?

 

'Generally, if I want a real heavy sound, I’ll mix the Vox with the Diezel, and if I want something more punchy, I’ll go with the Vox, and blend in a bit of the Marshall. I also use direct sounds a lot, and I’ll sometimes blend a direct sound with a distortion pedal. I’m really into multiple amp and DI tones, but the core sound is usually always the Vox.' - Matt Bellamy.

[james90]

That's what's been a mystery to me - I have no idea how he blends the amps.

 

And I don't think he uses channel 4 only. I think it's mostly channel 3 and sometimes channel 4.

 

Not sure about the others though

[tomrulez]

I may be well off here but surely his signal is sent to all the amps and cabs which are miced up and all the bending is done from the mixing desk by the sound guy?

[StandYourGround]

He uses channel 4 cause of the 'extreme saturation' and the extreme mids. Channel 3 has a more scooped sound which he says he doesnt like and i must say i agree with him.

 

As for the blending of the amps, its all done at the rig and I'm sure it'd done by MIDI. For a start it all goes to the one mills acoustics cab and he's always going on about getting the sound right at the source and giving as little control to the sound engineer as possible (in terms of tone).

[tomrulez]

He uses channel 4 cause of the 'extreme saturation' and the extreme mids. Channel 3 has a more scooped sound which he says he doesnt like and i must say i agree with him.

 

As for the blending of the amps, its all done at the rig and I'm sure it'd done by MIDI. For a start it all goes to the one mills acoustics cab and he's always going on about getting the sound right at the source and giving as little control to the sound engineer as possible (in terms of tone).

 

What's your source for all this?

[StandYourGround]

What's your source for all this?

 

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/breaking-the-mold-are-matthew-bellamys-custom-instruments-and-pianistic-approach-to-composition-forging-the-future-of-guitarcraft/1121

 

Between that and the rig rundown video on youtube.

[JimboMansonMB-1]

Nah, he's definitely on Ch3 most of the time.

 

As for the amp switching, my guess is that all amps are fed into a MIDI-controlled looper and out to one cab, so when he says "blending" it's really more having both switched on at the same time.

[StandYourGround]

Nah, he's definitely on Ch3 most of the time.

 

As for the amp switching, my guess is that all amps are fed into a MIDI-controlled looper and out to one cab, so when he says "blending" it's really more having both switched on at the same time.

 

Well he says he uses the channel 4 and that he doesnt like mid scooped sounds (which is what channel 3 is all about).

 

Even at that, how would you wire 3 amp heads in a MIDI switching loop system? especially when using loads of fx. Not to mention the whole thing is in stereo supposed to be.

[james90]

he does use channel 3:

 

 

channel 3 really isn't voiced that different from channel 4. it's just tighter and less saturated.

 

and i'm not sure how he has his amps setup, but in the past he's used multiple cabinets. i don't think we know for sure that he's using just one

[StandYourGround]

he does use channel 3:

 

 

channel 3 really isn't voiced that different from channel 4. it's just tighter and less saturated.

 

and i'm not sure how he has his amps setup, but in the past he's used multiple cabinets. i don't think we know for sure that he's using just one

 

2:30

[JimboMansonMB-1]

Well he says he uses the channel 4 and that he doesnt like mid scooped sounds (which is what channel 3 is all about).

 

Even at that, how would you wire 3 amp heads in a MIDI switching loop system? especially when using loads of fx. Not to mention the whole thing is in stereo supposed to be.

 

Ch4 has more gain than he normally uses--I'm sure he sometimes has it on for SS outros and things, but I'm going to say that it's normally on Ch3, which doesn't have to be a totally mid-scooped sound.

 

3 amp heads in a MIDI switching loop system? Easy.

 

Bells' guitar runs through all of his FX, etc, and that signal is run into the MIDI amp switcher. From there, it can be diverted via either of the floor controllers into any programmed combination of his amp heads, and then that signal is fed into one or two or however many cabs backstage then mic'd to FOH. For stereo, just send a dry through to a separate cab or send the effected signal twice into two different cabs.

 

Bam.

[james90]

oh ok

 

it's this one apparently

 

http://www.skrydstrup.com/as44.htm

 

not sure how it works exactly.

[StandYourGround]

Ch4 has more gain than he normally uses--I'm sure he sometimes has it on for SS outros and things, but I'm going to say that it's normally on Ch3, which doesn't have to be a totally mid-scooped sound.

 

3 amp heads in a MIDI switching loop system? Easy.

 

Bells' guitar runs through all of his FX, etc, and that signal is run into the MIDI amp switcher. From there, it can be diverted via either of the floor controllers into any programmed combination of his amp heads, and then that signal is fed into one or two or however many cabs backstage then mic'd to FOH. For stereo, just send a dry through to a separate cab or send the effected signal twice into two different cabs.

 

Bam.

 

But thats not true stereo. Things like ping pong delays, panning, phasing etc wont come across. What you're describing mono/mono.

I just dont know how you'd physically wire up all the amps into the loop switching stuff. If you're using 3 amps with post fx (reverbs/delays etc), it has to go through its fx loop at some point. Using 3 fx loops isn't easy haha

[tomrulez]

How do we know he is in stereo?

[StandYourGround]

oh ok

 

it's this one apparently

 

http://www.skrydstrup.com/as44.htm

 

not sure how it works exactly.

 

this is interesting. As always, they don't appear to sell them anywhere.

[StandYourGround]

How do we know he is in stereo?

 

would seem a waste with all those fx not to be. Plus im sure ive heard of him using crossfade delays stuff during the hysteria solo which always requires it being in stereo.

 

I'm just trying to get my head around how all this would be connected up