Finlay Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 This is getting too complicated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubicmage Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Yep, you're absolutely right, my fault. But, from what I was taught in music harmony, I always thought that there were two ways of looking at a circle of fifths? Either ascending fourths or descending fifths (Em - Am - D - G - C), because of the way it's like a series of perfect cadences (Em resolves to Am, D resolves to G and so on). Say in, erm, Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No.2 , there's quite a few circle of fifths, one of which is Cm7 - F7 - B flat 7 - E flat 7 - A7 - D, which, if you imagine playing it on a piano, could be read as either ascending fourths or descending fifths. And yep, if you retrograde it, it's definitely in fifths. Sorry, I'm really not much good at explaining myself! Though I may very well be wrong! No, no, you're right. I always think about it in terms of I - V rather than V - I because the diagrams that teachers hand out tend to be written that way! I'm actually studying the second Brandenburg Concerto at the moment (that trumpet is so good) and remember discussing the circle-of-fifth movements. It's one of the only pieces by Bach (Baroque music in general, really) that I actually like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvolo Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Yepp Matt sure likes Rachmaninov I wonder if anyone will be bothered to do what I did but with every song, let me explain. Find the Rachmaninov song and the time in that song where there's a bit that sounds like that in a Muse song and write it down, it'd be cool. Also, HAIL IN LONDON!! ARGH HAIL! ICE EVERYWHERE! A couple of seconds after I read that I looked out my window to see a rain/hail shower start full on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperypoo Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Whoever mentioned Candyman.......I tried singing Newborn over it....without success. Don't get it. The Candyman theme is in C minor for a start....it uses a different chord structure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Whoever mentioned Candyman.......I tried singing Newborn over it....without success. Don't get it. The Candyman theme is in C minor for a start....it uses a different chord structure... Eventually I'll get round to sampling it and I'll upload it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperypoo Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Well, I have the soundtrack....which one do you mean? I just tried it with 'Music Box'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Well, I have the soundtrack....which one do you mean? I just tried it with 'Music Box'. I don't know what it's called. I just know the tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperypoo Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Ah. Well, go on itunes or youtube something lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Ah. Well, go on itunes or youtube something lol. Right i'll get back to you tomorrow, just about to finish work! I've got it on DVD somewhere! One thing I do know is that it isn't in the same key... Crabfish will return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperypoo Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 *Holds breath* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RequiemForADream412 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I was listening to Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 1, and there's a part in there that sounds exactly like the "and make us meaningless again" part in Space Dementia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubicmage Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I was listening to Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 1, and there's a part in there that sounds exactly like the "and make us meaningless again" part in Space Dementia... That's the second concerto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RequiemForADream412 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 That's the second concerto. http://board.muse.mu/showthread.php?t=52719&highlight=rachmaninoff&page=60 Scroll down a bit. I've only just started getting into Rachmaninoff, so sorry if I'm wrong. I'm just going by what she (MrsMatthewBellamy) said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobytoss Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I wish people'd spell it 'Rachmaninov' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muse46 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I wish people'd spell it 'Rachmaninov' To the best of my knowledge, both ways of spelling it are correct. I believe it's something to do with the way in which Russian translates into English. But please correct me if I'm wrong. No, no, you're right. I always think about it in terms of I - V rather than V - I because the diagrams that teachers hand out tend to be written that way! I'm actually studying the second Brandenburg Concerto at the moment (that trumpet is so good) and remember discussing the circle-of-fifth movements. It's one of the only pieces by Bach (Baroque music in general, really) that I actually like. Ah right, thanks for confirming that, because I had a sneaking suspicion I was going to make a public idiot of myself again! I can really sympathise, because I'm still trying to get my head around them (being pretty thick doesn't really help!). As it happens, I've been studying Brandenburg too (you're right, that trumpet is amazing). I'd be shot for saying this by my music teachers, but like yourself, I really don't like Bach (I just find it all a bit... clinical and, dare I say it, boring) but I really like the Brandenburg. I think there's a circle-of-fifths somewhere in that Haydn Fifths Quartet, too, if I remember rightly. The joys of A-Level Music, eh?! Now if all Bach sounded like Take A Bow, then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobytoss Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 To the best of my knowledge, both ways of spelling it are correct. I believe it's something to do with the way in which Russian translates into English. But please correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, there is no officially correct way, but the sound is more like 'V' than 'FF', as well as being a single letter in the Russian alphabet, so I like to think that the V way I learnt originally is correct, and I get quite picky about these matters of spellings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellamyspiano Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I noticed a while ago that in Piano Concerto No. 2 in C minor, Op. 18 I: Moderato by Rachmaninov at 1:44 - 1:54 it sounded exactly like in Space Demetia at 2:32 (in the chorus) to 2:48. And in an interview with Matt, he said that he's an ape or something compared to Rachmaninov and how Rachmaninov is so great (he is). So are there any more Muse songs with Rachmaninov inspired parts? Yeah I noticed that. Exactly the same. I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RequiemForADream412 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 That's the second concerto. http://board.muse.mu/showthread.php?t=52719&highlight=rachmaninoff&page=60 Scroll down a bit. I've only just started getting into Rachmaninoff, so sorry if I'm wrong. I'm just going by what she (MrsMatthewBellamy) said. Oops. I am wrong. It is the second concerto. Sorry 'bout that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binarysonnets Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I wish people'd spell it 'Rachmaninov' mm when people spell it "rachmaninoff" I always think of it as an alternative to "piss off." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubicmage Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Ah right, thanks for confirming that, because I had a sneaking suspicion I was going to make a public idiot of myself again! I can really sympathise, because I'm still trying to get my head around them (being pretty thick doesn't really help!). As it happens, I've been studying Brandenburg too (you're right, that trumpet is amazing). I'd be shot for saying this by my music teachers, but like yourself, I really don't like Bach (I just find it all a bit... clinical and, dare I say it, boring) but I really like the Brandenburg. I think there's a circle-of-fifths somewhere in that Haydn Fifths Quartet, too, if I remember rightly. The joys of A-Level Music, eh?! Now if all Bach sounded like Take A Bow, then... I haven't started studying the Haydn quartet yet. In fact, I haven't even heard it, but it's in a minor key so I'll probably find it tolerable. I just wish that I could do a solo performance instead of ensemble because it's impossible to find band scores for pieces that I actually want to play! Yeah, there is no officially correct way, but the sound is more like 'V' than 'FF', as well as being a single letter in the Russian alphabet, so I like to think that the V way I learnt originally is correct, and I get quite picky about these matters of spellings The composer himself always spelt it with a 'ff' rather than a 'v'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobytoss Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I haven't started studying the Haydn quartet yet. In fact, I haven't even heard it, but it's in a minor key so I'll probably find it tolerable. I just wish that I could do a solo performance instead of ensemble because it's impossible to find band scores for pieces that I actually want to play! The composer himself always spelt it with a 'ff' rather than a 'v'. That doesn't necessarily make it correct, else Tchaikovsky'd have double FF too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 I was listening to Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 1, and there's a part in there that sounds exactly like the "and make us meaningless again" part in Space Dementia... EXACTLY!! THAT WAS MY POINT AT THE START OF THE THREAD!!! D'OH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 That doesn't necessarily make it correct, else Tchaikovsky'd have double FF too If it's Russian, it's officially a 'V'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 I wonder if he thought in numbers like me too? When I play a piece on the violin I think in the number of fingers I need to put on and open strings: 121ga1232121a123e2e123.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrogzappa Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I was listening to Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 1, and there's a part in there that sounds exactly like the "and make us meaningless again" part in Space Dementia... It's not Concerto No. 1 its Concerto No. 2 btw last night I watched HAARP DVD and I noticed if i'm not in error, that Matt plays the 2 inicial chords of Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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