Finlay Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I noticed a while ago that in Piano Concerto No. 2 in C minor, Op. 18 I: Moderato by Rachmaninov at 1:44 - 1:54 it sounded exactly like in Space Demetia at 2:32 (in the chorus) to 2:48. And in an interview with Matt, he said that he's an ape or something compared to Rachmaninov and how Rachmaninov is so great (he is). So are there any more Muse songs with Rachmaninov inspired parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunge Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Matt steals pretty much 100% of anything remotely classical in Muse's music from other composers. Blackout, B&H, Space Dementia, Sunburn, etc - all inspired by other pieces. Matt generally takes an idea from a piece and adapts it into a new piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobytoss Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I noticed a while ago that in Piano Concerto No. 2 in C minor, Op. 18 I: Moderato by Rachmaninov at 1:44 - 1:54 it sounded exactly like in Space Demetia at 2:32 (in the chorus) to 2:48. And in an interview with Matt, he said that he's an ape or something compared to Rachmaninov and how Rachmaninov is so great (he is). So are there any more Muse songs with Rachmaninov inspired parts? Yeah there's plenty, from memory, the major quoting/referencing Rachmaninov ones are Space Dementia, Megalomania, Ruled By Secrecy and Butterflies And Hurricanes, with bits of Tchaikovsky and Schubert here and there too There are a few live performances with exact or elaborated performances of Rachmaninov at the beginning too; the most readily available, Screenager on Hullabaloo, has an abridged Prelude from Op.2 at the start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks guys this is bery interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binarysonnets Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Rachmaninov had great big hands. To answer your question, I believe Butterflies and hurricanes is another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*~SugarSnow~* Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I love Rachmaninov - and it is quite apparent in Matt's piano parts that he does too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Yepp Matt sure likes Rachmaninov I wonder if anyone will be bothered to do what I did but with every song, let me explain. Find the Rachmaninov song and the time in that song where there's a bit that sounds like that in a Muse song and write it down, it'd be cool. Also, HAIL IN LONDON!! ARGH HAIL! ICE EVERYWHERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I noticed a while ago that in Piano Concerto No. 2 in C minor, Op. 18 I: Moderato by Rachmaninov at 1:44 - 1:54 it sounded exactly like in Space Demetia at 2:32 (in the chorus) to 2:48. And in an interview with Matt, he said that he's an ape or something compared to Rachmaninov and how Rachmaninov is so great (he is). So are there any more Muse songs with Rachmaninov inspired parts? Isn't Space Dementia just a rocked up version of the said Piano Concerto No. 2? The chord progressions throughout the song are identical. He plays the intro of the said piece as an outro to one of the tracks on HAARP... forgive me my memory sucks, although he says "cheers" straight after it. Which song am I thinking of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Isn't Space Dementia just a rocked up version of the said Piano Concerto No. 2? The chord progressions throughout the song are identical. He plays the intro of the said piece as an outro to one of the tracks on HAARP... forgive me my memory sucks, although he says "cheers" straight after it. Which song am I thinking of? Hoodoo? My memory sucks ass also how dare you have apicture off Rush in a muse messageboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubicmage Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Isn't Space Dementia just a rocked up version of the said Piano Concerto No. 2? The chord progressions throughout the song are identical. He plays the intro of the said piece as an outro to one of the tracks on HAARP... forgive me my memory sucks, although he says "cheers" straight after it. Which song am I thinking of? They are definitely not identical! Just look at this: http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/rapc2_1a.pdf It's based around chords i, iv and v with plenty of diminished fifths and some flattened root notes (there's a Cb a few bars into it!). The progression in Space Dementia is something like this (accidentals omitted): i - ii - III - iv - v And Space Dementia is in E minor. Rachmaninoff's concerto is in C minor. The only part lifted by Matt is the string motif starting somewhere near the sixth page of that PDF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 They are definitely not identical! Just look at this: http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/rapc2_1a.pdf It's based around chords i, iv and v with plenty of diminished fifths and some flattened root notes (there's a Cb a few bars into it!). The progression in Space Dementia is something like this (accidentals omitted): i - ii - III - iv - v And Space Dementia is in E minor. Rachmaninoff's concerto is in C minor. The only part lifted by Matt is the string motif starting somewhere near the sixth page of that PDF. I don't think we're talking about what he ripped off 'technically'. We are talking about a Matt listening to the piece, picking the chords out by ear, and transposing the progressions to suit his vocal range. It's not IDENTICAL but it IS blatantly stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Hoodoo? My memory sucks ass also how dare you have apicture off Rush in a muse messageboard Yes it's Hoodoo... I got back to you on the avatar thing in the other post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 They are definitely not identical! Just look at this: http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/rapc2_1a.pdf It's based around chords i, iv and v with plenty of diminished fifths and some flattened root notes (there's a Cb a few bars into it!). The progression in Space Dementia is something like this (accidentals omitted): i - ii - III - iv - v And Space Dementia is in E minor. Rachmaninoff's concerto is in C minor. The only part lifted by Matt is the string motif starting somewhere near the sixth page of that PDF. i agree with crabfish, matt's got a good ear and i think he thought that it would sound good in a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobytoss Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 If you wanna see some big Rachmaninov chord progression, check out Megalomania. Compare the first (bass) notes in the piano runs of the first movement of the concerto to the bass guitar and organ first (bass) notes, they're exactly the same; similar thing goes for the progression of Ruled By Secrecy compared to the later parts of the first movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 If you wanna see some big Rachmaninov chord progression, check out Megalomania. Compare the first (bass) notes in the piano runs of the first movement of the concerto to the bass guitar and organ first (bass) notes, they're exactly the same; similar thing goes for the progression of Ruled By Secrecy compared to the later parts of the first movement Has anyone seen the film Candyman by the way? The 'Candyman theme' is basically New Born. It's the exact same chord progression. I wonder if Matt has see that one.......... Whenever I watch the film I sing New Born over the top. The trouble with music is that chord progressions are recycled on a daily basis. If you want to write a song with 'epic' overtones (megalomania, ruled by secracy, etc) then you'll go for a classic chord progression, which will inevitably end up sounding like something else. In Matt's case, any classical stuff will immediately resemble Rachmaninoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muse46 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Has anyone seen the film Candyman by the way? The 'Candyman theme' is basically New Born. It's the exact same chord progression. I wonder if Matt has see that one.......... Whenever I watch the film I sing New Born over the top. The trouble with music is that chord progressions are recycled on a daily basis. If you want to write a song with 'epic' overtones (megalomania, ruled by secracy, etc) then you'll go for a classic chord progression, which will inevitably end up sounding like something else. In Matt's case, any classical stuff will immediately resemble Rachmaninoff. Unfortunately, I can't really recall the Candyman theme off-the-top of my head (my memory's going, I reckon! ), but in terms of chord progressions, New Born's riff and chorus are based around a harmonic progression that Baroque-era composers loved to use to really make things exciting, a circle of fifths (I think it's Em - Am - D - G - C, though I'm probably wrong!) I think that's probably what makes New Born such an incredibly powerful piece of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Unfortunately, I can't really recall the Candyman theme off-the-top of my head (my memory's going, I reckon! ), but in terms of chord progressions, New Born's riff and chorus are based around a harmonic progression that Baroque-era composers loved to use to really make things exciting, a circle of fifths (I think it's Em - Am - D - G - C, though I'm probably wrong!) I think that's probably what makes New Born such an incredibly powerful piece of music. if you change Em to E then add a Bm7 at the end...you've got Unintended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Unfortunately, I can't really recall the Candyman theme off-the-top of my head (my memory's going, I reckon! ), but in terms of chord progressions, New Born's riff and chorus are based around a harmonic progression that Baroque-era composers loved to use to really make things exciting, a circle of fifths (I think it's Em - Am - D - G - C, though I'm probably wrong!) I think that's probably what makes New Born such an incredibly powerful piece of music. It *is* one hell of a chord progression. Plus it was what Matt did with it that made it so powerful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobytoss Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Has anyone seen the film Candyman by the way? The 'Candyman theme' is basically New Born. It's the exact same chord progression. I wonder if Matt has see that one.......... Whenever I watch the film I sing New Born over the top. The trouble with music is that chord progressions are recycled on a daily basis. If you want to write a song with 'epic' overtones (megalomania, ruled by secracy, etc) then you'll go for a classic chord progression, which will inevitably end up sounding like something else. In Matt's case, any classical stuff will immediately resemble Rachmaninoff. I can imagine it's not too hard to have the same progression though, it's just a rising circle of fifths Edit: lol, just saw muse46 had posted the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubicmage Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I don't think we're talking about what he ripped off 'technically'. We are talking about a Matt listening to the piece, picking the chords out by ear, and transposing the progressions to suit his vocal range. It's not IDENTICAL but it IS blatantly stolen. But what's your point? He didn't pick the chords about because the concerto does not have a i-ii-III-iv-v progression. The influence is obviously there with the broken chords being played across hands and all, but it really is not the same chord progression! It's not a transposition of Rachmaninoff, unless you want to scan through the entire score to try and find the same progression to prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubicmage Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Unfortunately, I can't really recall the Candyman theme off-the-top of my head (my memory's going, I reckon! ), but in terms of chord progressions, New Born's riff and chorus are based around a harmonic progression that Baroque-era composers loved to use to really make things exciting, a circle of fifths (I think it's Em - Am - D - G - C, though I'm probably wrong!) I think that's probably what makes New Born such an incredibly powerful piece of music. A circle of fifths using that root would be Em - Bm - F#dim - C - G - D - Am. The one you've posted is going up in fourths, but if you retrograde it they become fifths! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 But what's your point? He didn't pick the chords about because the concerto does not have a i-ii-III-iv-v progression. The influence is obviously there with the broken chords being played across hands and all, but it really is not the same chord progression! It's not a transposition of Rachmaninoff, unless you want to scan through the entire score to try and find the same progression to prove me wrong. I know it isn't the SAME chord progression. I'm saying that the piece contains the SAME 'chords'. I mentioned the transposition in order to explain why it wasn't in the same key. And I wasn't really talking about the cross hand technique either. It's not THAT important to me mate. And as for my point - http://www.pointofpines.com/pointofpines-map.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubicmage Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 That would be a valid point if it wasn't for the fact that it doesn't contain the same chords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabfish Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 That would be a valid point if it wasn't for the fact that it doesn't contain the same chords. I know I'm rubbish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muse46 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 A circle of fifths using that root would be Em - Bm - F#dim - C - G - D - Am. The one you've posted is going up in fourths, but if you retrograde it they become fifths! Yep, you're absolutely right, my fault. But, from what I was taught in music harmony, I always thought that there were two ways of looking at a circle of fifths? Either ascending fourths or descending fifths (Em - Am - D - G - C), because of the way it's like a series of perfect cadences (Em resolves to Am, D resolves to G and so on). Say in, erm, Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No.2 , there's quite a few circle of fifths, one of which is Cm7 - F7 - B flat 7 - E flat 7 - A7 - D, which, if you imagine playing it on a piano, could be read as either ascending fourths or descending fifths. And yep, if you retrograde it, it's definitely in fifths. Sorry, I'm really not much good at explaining myself! Though I may very well be wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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