Samuel Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 sorry blahblahblah if it's already been posted, you know the drill basically, I was just wondering what everyone's opinions on graded exams in music were. whether it be abrsm, umm or the other ones. personally, i think they would be a good idea, but only if much less stress was placed on the student. e.g. maybe there should be more frequent, but easier exams, like up to grade 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthijs Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 lol whut is your point? there are musical exams.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toff Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 lol whut is your point? there are musical exams.... Hes not saying there isnt, hes asking peoples opinions on them. I think theyre great if you want to grab a nice job playing your instrument, like a session musician. I hate the fact that grade 8 people auto asume theyre better than someone who has no grades, or even someone with a lower grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Posted November 8, 2008 Author Share Posted November 8, 2008 My point is what do you think of them? Do they place unneccesary stress on students to achieve something, which shouldn't really be so valuable, or are they too easy, should they be harder so the really good musicians are actually distinctive from the rest? I dunno... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samcoma Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 My point is what do you think of them? Do they place unnecessary stress on students to achieve something, which shouldn't really be so valuable, or are they too easy, should they be harder so the really good musicians are actually distinctive from the rest? I dunno... Grading doesn't make the musician tbh. Creativity is more important then any grading and that's what's lacking today. Derek Trucks *ungraded musician* is a phenomenal player and has enough talent and creativity to break through the shite that's out there today. And also grading doesn't assure you a job as a sessions player. An ungraded player can do the same job but it is a very competitive business, so it helps having the grading under your belt. Another thing with the sessions musician gig is that it is effectively self employment so that is one of the reasons its hard to break into, where as starting up a band/getting signed is a little easier without contacts but with talent and originality now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthijs Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Hes not saying there isnt, hes asking peoples opinions on them. I think theyre great if you want to grab a nice job playing your instrument, like a session musician. I hate the fact that grade 8 people auto asume theyre better than someone who has no grades, or even someone with a lower grade. my point is he's saying they would be a good idea.. grammatically it's saying they don't exist yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 my point is he's saying they would be a good idea.. grammatically it's saying they don't exist yet nah i said they would be a good idea, in the sense that they currently are a bad idea, sorry for the confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bshuker Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Grading isn't really very important as far as contemporary styles go, so isn't something that's gonna be very regarded here. It's more of a classical type method to prepare musicians for performance with whichever type of ensemble, so ABRSM grades tend to cover techniques, various common pieces for the instrument, all the scales etc that would be necessary for a musician to be competent enough to perform with relative confidence. The other reason they are so important for classical setting is to help make sure that all the musicians are consistently trained to an appropriate level and for band leaders to pick their members with the confidence that they will be able to play the music. It's pretty simple really. Grades for contemporary instruments have come later, and your Rock School grades/LCM grades, are totally different, with differing ability from whichever someone may have took. They're pretty good and do cover a lot of ground, and would TEND to create a more apt musician for sessions or jazz ensembles. But it really depends. To be honest the other major difference is that to be quite honest, the musicianship of most contemporary players is severely lacking in comparison to classically trained counterparts. The level of music and musicianship of most ABRSM Grade 8 players is phenomenal compared to LCM/Rock School Grade 8 for contemporary instruments. However on that note, as I think Sam said, a lot of contemporary musicians are far more creative, and improvisation and composition tends to be a bit stronger over classical musicians (you ever asked a grade 8 flute player to improv over jazz? fail). So yeah, that's my opinion/truth on the subject. Whoops didn't even answer OPs question. If I think they're a good idea? For classical, they're essential. I think a more structured grading system for contemporary instruments would be fantastic, I also think that sight reading should be a top priority, and that the grade scaling would be MUCH steeper for contemporary grades. The LCM grades are particularly awful, they only introduce two to three chords/scales and arpeggios per grade and provide tab for guitar/bass with no focus on sight reading. If someone wrote out grades that paralleled ABRSM for the contemporary instruments, then they would be a fantastic idea. But as it stands, they're very basic and don't cover most of what you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexia Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I think they're mainly pointless and just a sort of "look at me and my big, musical penis". Anyone can work their way up the grades, but you need to be able to play music to play music. I used to play the cello and worked up to grade three. I could play music well and my lack of practicing made me an amazing sight reader (for cello music, anyway >.<) but I couldn't, for the life of me, write cello music on the cello. I could easily write it in Sibelius, but I couldn't compose on the cello. But with my guitar, I started with nothing. Didn't get lessons. Didn't have grades. I basically learnt it all from nothing and used bits of cello knowledge to do things like vibrato (well, non-string bend vibrato). But I can write music on the guitar, and in fact play things like solos off the top of my head (Albeit unimpressive and slightly samey solos). I had guitar lessons for a while after I was already an established guitarist (ie. I could play at a reasonable stanard) and got to around Grade 4 before stopping, because it just wasn't that good. It was just learning other people's songs, whereas I wanted to learn techniques and chords so that I could adapt them into my own music. So I guess it really does vary for each instrument, as bshuker basically said, but for the most part I think they're just for the sheep who want to play other people's music really well, rather than create their own. Because while saying "I can play grade 8 guitar" is impressive, it doesn't beat something like "I've released three albums, am traveling on tour with my band, and I'm playing at [festival name] this year". Because Grades alone won't get you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_and_tv Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 i think the grading system makes it easier to become a skilled technical player (because you have to learn a set of techniques for each grade etc), but as sam said, grading doesnt make the musician. im a grade 4 violinist (stopped doing exams after grade 3) but i can sightread grade 6 and 7, but i know an Amus violinist who struggles to do the same (nb: australian gradings used here. grade 4 AMEB is grade 6 in the UK i think.. Amus is the level above grade 8 here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcane Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Good thread! Was thinking about this stuff the other day and there is lots of great info here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emily :) Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 Hmmm, the actual stuff in the exam isn't really that difficult compared to academic things in school, however the amount of time I spend on my instrument is far less than I should spend resulting in underachievement. Let's hope I'll be alright for the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJF Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 The main reason for having lessons and sitting exams is to develop good technique. I suppose it also exposes you to new music you wouldn't otherwise play/learn. But as has already been said, technique isn't the end of music -- you need to be able to play the music, be creative, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam511 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Personally I agree partially on having music exams etc but I dont like the way music is taught (atleast in scotland) Where you have to learn a number of concepts and memorise the styles of music they go with When you could write a whole dissertation on something like a Drone or something.... Students at high school should get the chance to learn a specific area of music that they enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil. Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Please keep it on topic. less bullshit irrelevant waffle please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcane Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 It seems to me that it's all pretty good. Okay, it can encourage people to simply pass exams and not learn their instrument, but it can also do get people to set targets for themselves to aim to while they explore their instrument of choice. For example, I'm aiming myself for grade 5 (currently grade 3) on the viola by the end of this university summer holiday (so the end of September)...if I can do so, I'm going to get myself a much better one and then be able to join the orchestra - the looming exam thus forces me to learn quicker and push myself, which is great. I'm really enjoying it. In short, it's good. It can be seen as limiting and general, but meh, not in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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