CarrieB Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 But Matt isn't exactly above even the average musician in any of these features. Most musicians can play what he plays on the piano and the guitar, and his voice isn't exactly a miracle either. He has a 3 octave range, and that includes falsetto, and neither is his technique very good. To write, sing, and play more than one instrument well in a rock band is pretty rare, I think. And nobody else has written his songs, the very songs that have produced Muse's success ultimately. I haven't heard anyone else who could replace them. Even if you could say, oh so and so could do this just as well etc. Why aren't they Muse then? It takes more than skill in this or that area to have what they have, it's a combination of many different factors. I think you need to give up your Matt in a heart avatar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 To write, sing, and play more than one instrument well in a rock band is pretty rare, I think. And nobody else has written his songs, the very songs that have produced Muse's success ultimately. I haven't heard anyone else who could replace them. Even if you could say, oh so and so could do this just as well etc. Why aren't they Muse then? It takes more than skill in this or that area to have what they have, it's a combination of many different factors. I think you need to give up your Matt in a heart avatar! But Carrie, if you read, we are clearly seperating creativity(writing) and performance. I am not saying any person could write the songs, I'm saying anyone could play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 But we are talking about performance, not creation. His performance skills are on par with the average musician, and we are talking about what makes someone a genius, enjoying someones voice doesn't exactly matter. You said he had exceptional skills in guitar and piano playing(NOT creating/writing), which isn't true. Again, I said: Well, I'd say Matt has exceptional skills in the creation and performance of music And you're suggesting that Matt's not a vocal genius because of his technique and range. Why do only those factors count and not the fact that the voice sounds extremely pleasant to the ear, which would be an exceptional natural ability, which would fit one of the definitions of genius that I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I did say creation and performance. The two things together put him way above your average musician, in my opinion. And there's more to a good singing voice than range and technique. Neither of those things automatically make a person's voice pleasant to listen to. You're going into personal preference there. Matt isn't a technically proficient singer in the way a trained opera singer would be, but just you may prefer listening to Bellamy, he isn't suddenly a better singer. Same with guitar, there are plenty of virtuoso guitarists out there. And CarrieB, you're underestimating a lot of musicians there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarrieB Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 But Carrie, if you read, we are clearly seperating creativity(writing) and performance. I am not saying any person could write the songs, I'm saying anyone could play them. But I think what we are saying, is that to do all of it at such a decent level is pretty special. There's no point separating everything out and considering it separately because it's all being done by one man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Chizzlebrox Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Again, I said: And you're suggesting that Matt's not a vocal genius because of his technique and range. Why do only those factors count and not the fact that the voice sounds extremely pleasant to the ear, which would be an exceptional natural ability, which would fit one of the definitions of genius that I posted. Yeah, because people have the ability to change their natural tone of voice. By your reckoning Morgan Freeman is a vocal genius because simply by talking he can convey great power and authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Chizzlebrox Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 But I think what we are saying, is that to do all of it at such a decent level is pretty special. There's no point separating everything out and considering it separately because it's all being done by one man. So you admit Muse is basically just a vehicle for Bellamy and the other two might as well be session artists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Again, I said: And you're suggesting that Matt's not a vocal genius because of his technique and range. Why do only those factors count and not the fact that the voice sounds extremely pleasant to the ear, which would be an exceptional natural ability, which would fit one of the definitions of genius that I posted. Are you saying that everyone who sounds pleasant to the ear is a vocal genius? Anyone can get a pleasant sound to their voice, just go to the nearest vocal coach. A vocal genius would be someone who uses their voice in an exceptional way, not someone whose voice just appeals to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 You're going into personal preference there. Matt isn't a technically proficient singer in the way a trained opera singer would be, but just you may prefer listening to Bellamy, he isn't suddenly a better singer. Same with guitar, there are plenty of virtuoso guitarists out there. And CarrieB, you're underestimating a lot of musicians there! This is what I meant when I said it's subjective. There aren't any hard and fast rules as to what makes someone a genius. The dictionary definition itself is pretty ambiguous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarrieB Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 So you admit Muse is basically just a vehicle for Bellamy and the other two might as well be session artists? Nooooooo! Oh god you lot, try and pick arguments with everything. Matt writes the songs, sings, plays the piano and the guitar and that's what we are talking about here. The thread is about Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 But I think what we are saying, is that to do all of it at such a decent level is pretty special. There's no point separating everything out and considering it separately because it's all being done by one man. There's plenty of music out there that's done by one man. Warp Records would absolutely blow your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Are you saying that everyone who sounds pleasant to the ear is a vocal genius? Anyone can get a pleasant sound to their voice, just go to the nearest vocal coach. A vocal genius would be someone who uses their voice in an exceptional way, not someone whose voice just appeals to you. Some people have a talent for singing and their voice appeals broadly to other people. Someone else can have all the training they can buy and still not sound appealing. I'm saying Matt has a natural ability to sound good even without formal training. But I'm not saying that this alone makes him a genius. It's the combination of all his skills that puts him way above the average person, musically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Chizzlebrox Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Nooooooo! Oh god you lot, try and pick arguments with everything. Matt writes the songs, sings, plays the piano and the guitar and that's what we are talking about here. The thread is about Matt. Fair enough. But writing songs, singing, playing piano and guitar doesn't make someone a creative genius. It makes them a proficient musician. There are many hundreds of thousands of people round the world who can do what Bellamy does, and probably better than he does. Bellamy just happens to be in the band with a record deal that allows him to get his music out en masse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Some people have a talent for singing and their voice appeals broadly to other people. Someone else can have all the training they can buy and still not sound appealing. I'm saying Matt has a natural ability to sound good even without formal training. But I'm not saying that this alone makes him a genius. It's the combination of all his skills that puts him way above the average person, musically. Sounding good...in YOUR opinion. And judging from what most people think about his Showbiz voice, I doubt that it's an opinion shared by many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Sounding good...in YOUR opinion. And judging from what most people think about his Showbiz voice, I doubt that it's an opinion shared by many. In the opinion of myself and the other millions of people who've bought their albums and tickets to their live shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 In the opinion of myself and the other millions of people who've bought their albums and tickets to their live shows. What makes you so sure that all of these people find the Showbiz voice pleasant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Fair enough. But writing songs, singing, playing piano and guitar doesn't make someone a creative genius. It makes them a proficient musician. There are many hundreds of thousands of people round the world who can do what Bellamy does, and probably better than he does. Bellamy just happens to be in the band with a record deal that allows him to get his music out en masse. So maybe they should all be classed as musical geniuses, because they're head and shoulders above the billions of other people who don't have their skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 What makes you so sure that all of these people find the Showbiz voice pleasant? Since when were we narrowing it down to the Showbiz voice? I'm talking about Matt's vocal skills in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Since when were we narrowing it down to the Showbiz voice? I'm talking about Matt's vocal skills in general. And I'm talking about his NATURAL voice.(which was what you referred to) Todays voice has become what is it thanks to huge amounts of training. Most singers are able to sing in a pleasant way without the help of a vocal coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Chizzlebrox Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 So maybe they should all be classed as musical geniuses, because they're head and shoulders above the billions of other people who don't have their skills. I'm sure some of them might be doing something that is completely out of the ballpark and could lead to them being labelled as a genius, but mostly no, they'll just be proficient and talented musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarrieB Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Fair enough. But writing songs, singing, playing piano and guitar doesn't make someone a creative genius. It makes them a proficient musician. There are many hundreds of thousands of people round the world who can do what Bellamy does, and probably better than he does. Bellamy just happens to be in the band with a record deal that allows him to get his music out en masse. Well it's what I enjoy listening to, so there you go. I haven't heard anything that I enjoy listening to as much, produced by a musician who contributes so much to the band. And I remain of the opinion that Matt is pretty special. I personally don't think it is something you can break down and discuss in a logical argument. It's more than that. It's what happens to capture you and move you (and obviously a lot of other people in Muse's case) rather than comparing this person's technical ability with that person's etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 This is what I meant when I said it's subjective. There aren't any hard and fast rules as to what makes someone a genius. The dictionary definition itself is pretty ambiguous. It's not necessarily subjective though. Just people have far too much bias towards they like and then these debates go around in stupid circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 And I'm talking about his NATURAL voice.(which was what you referred to) Todays voice has become what is it thanks to huge amounts of training. Most singers are able to sing in a pleasant way without the help of a vocal coach. So Showbiz is the only period where there is any natural ability evident? On the rest of the albums it's purely down to vocal training and nothing to do with his natural talent? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 It's not necessarily subjective though. Just people have far too much bias towards they like and then these debates go around in stupid circles. It's a lot more subjective when the subject is music rather than, say, mathematics. A mathematical genius is a lot easier to define. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 So Showbiz is the only period where there is any natural ability evident? On the rest of the albums it's purely down to vocal training and nothing to do with his natural talent? No. It is the only period where his natural ability hasn't been affected by vocal training, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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