Human Gear Animato

[Crowella]

Double post. Meh.

 

Those with LTspice can try my schematic. It has been adjusted to allow for 2n3904/2n3906 transistors.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Lx-E88bAtEUy0wdFpjQWh4WlU/view?usp=sharing

 

Dat realisation when you spent over $500 on a Dallas Rangemaster going into a Big Muff pi... It's a little more involved than that but that's the basics of it.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Crowella

[Jaicen]

Schem still looks a bit odd. No bias resistor to q3 base, it's biased to ground by the leakage of q1??

Otherwise, it looks like a pretty standard booster, taking the output from the emitter of q3 inverts the phase relative to.the input.

[Crowella]

Yeah, I know it seems strange. Do you mean because it acts like this?

 

 

I just wired this first stage up and it works. High pass filter that breaks up a little bit. The trimpot just adjusts the boost.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Crowella

[Crowella]

Confirm this bitch!

 

I need those germaniums though. The silicon's are fine, but they don't have that distinct attack that makes this pedal.

[matthijs]

Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't every germanium have slightly different values even if it's the same type?

[muse59200]

http://www.guitarsrebellion.com/crbst_558.html

 

This is a french website where you can buy human gear pedals. 359 euros seems to be a good deal for the animato.

[Dave.]

http://www.guitarsrebellion.com/crbst_558.html

 

This is a french website where you can buy human gear pedals. 359 euros seems to be a good deal for the animato.

 

.....or build it for cost price.....

[muse59200]

Wanting an animato =/= wanting animato sound

[Crowella]

Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't every germanium have slightly different values even if it's the same type?

Yep, that's where the trouble is.

 

I got my breadboard version working and it seems the attack isn't as strong as the original. Changing the transistor where the germanium pair should be did the most to the sound but I also changed a few other things to tinker around with it, mainly because I could. Still sounded more "muff" than distortion. I'll have to recheck every part's value.

 

Wanting an animato =/= wanting animato sound

Yeah but most of us don't want to spend that much on it, considering it really doesn't do a very wide range of sounds. The original also loses its paint so easily too, it's ridiculous.

 

EDIT: We have someone over at talkbass who has made a PCB of it already so the layout works.

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/someone-cracked-the-animato.1107750/page-3

 

EDIT 2: I might have found where I stuffed up as far as that deep tone goes and it's all because of one very pesky capacitor that I couldn't get the value of.

http://imgur.com/a/zLnM9

Edited October 15, 2014 by Crowella

[matthijs]

The while world is teaming up!

[Crowella]

 

So freaking close. As in, you could probably trick people with the tiniest bit of EQ. Video to follow with a basic demonstration.

 

EDIT:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_Kh8VNE5lI

Edited October 15, 2014 by Crowella

[Jaicen]

Great work mate. I thought initially that the clone was the second one. I prefer the sound of the clone actually! Seems like it has a fuller sound with a bit less gain Probably get some value from tweaking the transistors in the first stage, selected for gain . I guess in the region of 70hfe?

 

Great work mate.

[Crowella]

Thank you. What you said was basically spot on. The clone isn't as gainy and has a slightly deeper decay and less harsh. It still sounds damn awesome but I want to try and get it closer naturally. I think the muff stage needs some higher gain, because I might still have that suspicious cap wrong but I don't know.

 

At least it's pretty convincing for something that's basically a Big Muff.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Crowella

[Jaicen]

I would look to the input transistor first. Suspect higher gain transistors here will give the changes you're looking for.

[Dave.]

Maybe hook up the switch to change between the current components and the components that are more accurate?

I think I'd prefer that option more than the current option.

[Crowella]

I have a gut feeling the first transistors are the NTE102A/103A so there is more gain. It might explain the less harsh voicing and more gain. Its very difficult to find transistors here with that much gain, its only really possible by chance or over the top observation.

 

Will try to build a pedal version this week. My local (well, 30 mins away) electronics supplier has the same cases so I don't know if I want to do that for lels or try and fit it in an MXR style enclosure. Probably the latter for money.

[Dave.]

Any idea when you'll be putting up the PCB board?

I'd really like to start making one.

 

edit: Also, I saw on basschat that one guy has added in a tilt feature. Has he supplied the mods for that?

Edited October 18, 2014 by Dave

[Crowella]

I'll put up a PCB when I get around to making it. I'll likely make it to fit in a similar size to the Animato box, but obviously not as deep. Trying to design it so I can mount it to the enclosure and make it all rigid and include a battery (even though I despise them). I originally wanted to do it so the board is mounted with the pots that's not structurally sound. I'm just fussy like that.

 

I'm probably going to go about this in a few ways. I really do not want to add the switch considering it's effect is virtually unnoticeable. If I don't add the switch, the cost goes down and I can fit it nicely into a smaller enclosure which results in it being cheaper to make. I'll make the PCB allow room for the switch but I won't be building with them.

 

I'll also work on a version with a clean blend although I'm still working the best way to go about that one too. Could also make a deluxe version which you can choose to pair with a clean tone or with a russian style Big Muff. I don't know yet.

 

EDIT: Below is what my first build will likely look like. Obviously not with paper but just something designed similar to that. No switch, it's not worth the hassle.

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2014 by Crowella

[Crowella]

Dave, drew up a PCB and confirmed it this morning with a pen and paper. I allowed for the switch in it. I am still not going to build my prototype with one but it's there. I'd recommend an enclosure a similar size to the Animato for that PCB if you are going to add the switch.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Lx-E88bAtEbV9wNk1paE9aVHc/view?usp=sharing

 

Once I have the pedals working to the way I want, I'll likely produce 10 of these for sale.

 

What's a reasonable price you guys would pay for one? I was looking to charge $180 AUD shipped so at current rates that's about ~$160-170USD/~£100-110GBP/~€125-135 (without the meaningless switch )

 

EDIT: Seems like no one sells the knobs I'm using on the prototype any more. I can't remember where I got them from.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Crowella

[Jaicen]

I would look for £150 personally, assuming your build quality is top notch.

[Dave.]

Dave, drew up a PCB and confirmed it this morning with a pen and paper. I allowed for the switch in it. I am still not going to build my prototype with one but it's there. I'd recommend an enclosure a similar size to the Animato for that PCB if you are going to add the switch.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Lx-E88bAtEbV9wNk1paE9aVHc/view?usp=sharing

 

Once I have the pedals working to the way I want, I'll likely produce 10 of these for sale.

 

What's a reasonable price you guys would pay for one? I was looking to charge $180 AUD shipped so at current rates that's about ~$160-170USD/~£100-110GBP/~€125-135 (without the meaningless switch )

 

EDIT: Seems like no one sells the knobs I'm using on the prototype any more. I can't remember where I got them from.

 

Wonderful! I'll try and get the parts together soon (I have a project for school to design so more soldering will be the last thing in my mind soon!). Would an enclosure similar to a little big muff do?

Also, in that schematic, is the switch necessary?

[Crowella]

Just double check the PCB before building, I'm certain it's right but I might be wrong.

 

The switch is unneccessary. I put the resistors that are optional in brackets. They are down at the bottom of the PCB.

 

The enclosure it will fit in is similar to the MXR size, provided you have no battery. I've allowed for two stand off screws also, which I will use because I want to be able to toss the pedal into a brick wall and it still work. It might also be possible to mount the pots onto the board themselves, using the right angle standing pots with the long PCB legs because I originally wanted to mount it with them.

 

Can't also find those nice silver knobs any more. I'm going to see what I can do. An equivalent costs way too much in both small and large volumes. I'll likely go with some Davies 1900H, white knobs. Plain, but simple.

 

I would look for £150 personally, assuming your build quality is top notch.

 

I'll see what I can do with this first prototype build and let you guys judge. It might look that way if I have to finish the enclosures from scratch but I'll see. This will be my first attempt at painting an enclosure but I've painted a car before so I imagine it will be very similar, I just need to set up a dust free work station, most likely my bathroom. They'll likely just be white with the orange stripes and text decal because I kind of despise busy looking pedals and I'd like a similar style to the original pedal as well as influences from the old Acoustic amps (I miss that 220 :'( )

 

I obviously want to make it as top notch as possible. I've sold a few pedals before. Matthijs has a pedal I've made before and that was my first attempt at clear decals and that went okay, not fantastic as I learned it stretched very easily. I liked the board on that but not the use of electric tape so I'm working around that with things like dust covers and better planning.

 

Only things I'm concerned about outside of my control quality wise is the jacks I am buying, as well as the wire I'm using. I cannot for the life of me find a good, sturdy quality wire here and the jacks I am using because the place I'm going to use has cheap equivalents.

 

Last time, I found the cheaper Neutrik jacks worked a treat over the Switchcraft but I'll see what these other ones are like.

 

Basically, I'll do my absolute best on the prototype build. I'll learn from there what works and what doesn't. I'm satisfied that the board will fit in beautifully with the rest and everything should be pretty easy to wire. I'm planning on selling some locally too because it really grabbed the attention of bassists at our first gig.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Crowella

[matthijs]

I'll pay that price too, the previous pedal is doing well and I vouch for your quality. Would love a compact sized pedal over one with switch

[Dave.]

I won't be fitting the switch and a battery. I use a power brick on my board so I've no need for the space.

I may check out about a variable capacitor for that first cap, just to be able to adjust the bass. Maybe as a trim pot or something.

 

edit: I see those resistors. Seriously, great work man!

 

edit: I can't find a suitable variable cap so I'll just stick with the 22uf unless you know of a better value.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Dave

[Dave.]

Am I right in assuming this is the trim pot?