Doms Drums

[the_man361]

t'salright lol

 

so im right in thinking that stick a trigger on my kit and by hitting the rim of that drum i can send a signal to a drum brain thing and get a sound out of it?

 

Just like hitting a pad in a digital drum kit sends a signal to the drum brain?

 

yes?

 

yeah you can just buy a drum trigger and send the trigger to a sound module. the trigger is just a sensor that produces a voltage when its hit hard enough (or in the rim case, when it wobbles)

 

if you're getting a digital kit you might be able to find a way to incorporate one of the triggers into your kit to keep your acoustic snare but also to add in a shaker sound to the hit. when you get your digital drums try hitting the rack that they go on with your sticks while theyre on and you should see what i mean.

 

you can set off some mesh triggers without touching them as well. i remember badgers snare trigger could be triggered by shouting at it really loud right next to it. so maybe you could put it under your snare if yours acts the same way?

[Niles]

Most likely. From what everyone's describing, it sounds like a custom job, not unlike installing effects pedals on a Guitar (like a certain Guitar-playing fiend from a certain band whom this messageboard is affiliated with (if that's the right way round)).

 

Oooooh, doppelrunde Klammer!

 

Nah, you just buy the little box thing and clamp it to the hoop of the drum (some are installed over the tension rod, you thread it though before putting it into a lug). If you've got the bran of an e-kit already I suspect you could just hook it up where you'd otherwise plug in a trigger pad.

 

UPDATE: Am now playing right handed full-time and am piecing together a small kit for when I'm living in the dorm this semester and doing shows on the weekend. I just bought a 22x14 Slingerland bass over eBay (tom mount off and recovered in white marine pearl, Ludwig 12x8 and 16x16 toms are next followed by a 14x6 American black chery segment snare shell from Rhythm King to complete the 4 piece.

[stakka]

Hi Niles - your comment about right handed drumming caught my eye - I am right handed but my little lad of 6 who is now starting to use the kit has decided to be left handed bless him. As it is a Roland digital kit (all clamped and wired together) it is not just a case of moving the drums around each time we both want to play.

 

I could switch the sounds round on the module to a certain extent but it ain't straightforward.

 

I don't want to hold him back so would you say I would be doing him an injustice in him having to learn playing in a different way ? I am fairly new to drumming so I know little about learning techniques / playing styles.

 

I would try taking my son back from where I got him and exchange him for a right handed model but I have lost the reciept !!!

[Niles]

My right hand is dominant but I learned to play by mimicking the drummers of my two favourite bands at the time (Muse and Placebo, Dom Howard and Steve Hewitt, respectively) who were, quite unfortunately, both left handed (and not knowing any better I thought the reverse config was standard). I'm only discovering now that this has been an almighty handicap as I can phrase, fill and reproduce rhythm now much more easily and intuitively than I ever could before.

 

I would suggest that your son learn to lead with his dominant hand, whichever that is but I'm no drum teacher, this is just from my own experience (I would like to have learned the right way around from the beginning). I've seen a number of lefties using a right handed kit in open handed config (lefty hands, righty feet, hats and ride on the left).

 

Of course there is merit in learning to drum the other way around, I can now play ambidextrously, if I want to play a fill on the toms but still ride hats/ride I can just switch hands in the middle of the passage.

[6ixty_6ix]

i was thinking that...if i swapped my kit round to a lefty version, would it improve the way i play at all?

 

EDIT: ay up

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zildjian-Oriental-20-Crash-Of-Doom-BRANDNEW-dom-howard_W0QQitemZ220070174707QQihZ012QQcategoryZ10174QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[stakka]

Thanks Niles - I don't want to restrict his learning, I'm hoping he will hit big time, get rich and look after his dad (dream). We will just have to persevere and he can impress me enough to get him his own kit I guess

 

Top notch inspirational drummers there...Sir Dom and Steve H... never thought I would go for a Nancy Boy but that song just rocks.

[Niles]

No prob.

 

Jon Theodore does not use the COD!

[stakka]

No prob.

 

Jon Theodore does not use the COD!

 

He might do if he snaps that one up off ebay though

[DominicHoward]

neither does dom anymore

[Niles]

Jon has never used the COD, this guy's just lying.

[DanDrums]

Stakka.

 

About 3 months ago a lad of 10 came to me for drum lessons. He'd been playing and learning for a year right handed off a different teacher, one who couldn't be arsed to move his kit about for the lad. Anyway I set about the first lesson and hid dad kept telling him to 'lead with his right hand'. It was unusual but I carried on for a while. Then it hit me, I asked if the lad was left handed and the reply was that he was but his previous teacher had forced him into playing the other way round. We'd pretty much come to the end of the hour and we had to make a decision, would he carry on back to front or should we move the kit around to a left handed set up. He had a kit at home to practice on and that was set up right handed so I told them to go home, move the kit around so it's left handed and more comfortable and to try to relearn everything he'd done. The following week, he was transformed and while he's not an amazing timekeeper, he learns the hand and arm movements very quickly now and can play some pretty complex stuff. He's learned a lot more in three months with me than he had in a year with the other guy.

 

 

Sorry to go on. There is a definite advantage to using an electric kit in so much as the pads are all the same size and mainly in the same position, left or right handed. Just assign snare notes to the floor tom pad and vise versa. Get another add on pad for the hi hat on the other side and you're done. You can make the hat pads do effect cymbal noises too then all you need to do to swap between left and right handed is move the foot controller for the hi hat. Bingo!!

 

One las thing then I'll shut up.

A friend of mine has probably the fastest right foot i've ever seen. He plays in a tech punk band called Death Defying Life doing blast beats etc. He's naturally left handed (and footed) but plays open handed on a right handed set up. The only thing that's different is that he has his ride cymbal on the left, next to the hats. He does have trouble doing fills, leading with the right hand on to the floor tom for example but that's only because the music he likes to play demands that he go immensely fast! So good right foot, bad right hand he's a bit weird in that respect but it prooves that it's dooable.

 

Encourage the left handed ness. I would and have done. He'll learn stuff a lot quicker and the fills and beats he plays will become second nature a lot quicker. Hope this helps.

[DanDrums]

Good Lord Niles! You paid that much for an old kick drum to re-cover and not match the lugs on your toms. You could have had the entire kit for that if it's just to practice on!!

 

Just kidding dude. The old Slings are great.

 

Drum triggers, IE the little bug boxes you attach to the hoop of the drum will go off wether you hit ther hoop or the skin. They're not as advanced as the dual trigger rubber pads by the likes of Roland and will not ignore a hit to the skin when mounted on the rim.

 

The Roland pads use the same Piezo sensors in the centre and the rim of the drum. The module or brain figures out which bit of the pad you've hit by comparing the output from both. So if the central trigger sends a stronger signal than the rim trigger the brain produces the skin sound. If the rim hit is bigger than the centre hit, the brain produces the rim noise.

 

There are some snare pads which can replicate a 'rim shot' where the skin and the rim are hit at the same time and produce both sounds but they're not very good at reproducing the unique sound one gets from a real snare drum and most of the time, the brain gets it wrong too and does one or the other described above.

 

Unless it's my technique that's shit.....? *Shrugs*

[DanDrums]

God I hate it when people tripple post!

 

Sixty Six. I set my kit up the leftie way every now an again and sometimes with the more advanced students that I teach. It's usually good for a laugh for the first 5-10 minutes then we start getting really competetive and try to nail down the beats or fills we've been doing!

 

So yeah, do it but only when you've got your timing dead on with the other stuff your doing.

 

Before you move your kit around, Try doing a typical rock 'build up' your right hand on the floor tom and your left on the snare. Start quiet and play sixteen notes, getting louder on each note. Watch your stick in your right hand it'll probably go pretty straight up and down, now do it again and watch your left hand, it'll probably wobble about all over the place, (I know mine does) Do it for longer, 32 notes and see if your right and left beats hit at the same time and that your left hand can keep up with your right. The right is naturally stronger and more acurate, you can get away with having a weak left hand until you start doing rudiments around the kit, paradiddles etc which you'll need to do now and again if your band are to be as technical as Muse.

 

Once you get your kit moved round, the feet are usually the hardest to train, you keep going for the bass drum and close the hi hat instead, it's really funny. Start simply, learn to lead with the left hand then once you can forget about them, work on the feet. It'll give you a real sense of pride when you can do the 'Assasin triplets' left handed!!

[ADAM]

Drum triggers, IE the little bug boxes you attach to the hoop of the drum will go off wether you hit ther hoop or the skin. They're not as advanced as the dual trigger rubber pads by the likes of Roland and will not ignore a hit to the skin when mounted on the rim.

 

The Roland pads use the same Piezo sensors in the centre and the rim of the drum. The module or brain figures out which bit of the pad you've hit by comparing the output from both. So if the central trigger sends a stronger signal than the rim trigger the brain produces the skin sound. If the rim hit is bigger than the centre hit, the brain produces the rim noise.

 

There are some snare pads which can replicate a 'rim shot' where the skin and the rim are hit at the same time and produce both sounds but they're not very good at reproducing the unique sound one gets from a real snare drum and most of the time, the brain gets it wrong too and does one or the other described above.

 

All i want is similar to what dom has - so when he hits the rim of his floor tom he gets a shaker sound (i could then also make it a cowbell or other KARAZY noises!)

 

He doesnt hit the skin when he plays live. Can you get 'rim sensoring only' trigger pads?

 

Or will I need to get a 'rim and skin pad' and not have anything going through the skin bit? (more expensive surely?)

[Niles]

Good Lord Niles! You paid that much for an old kick drum to re-cover and not match the lugs on your toms. You could have had the entire kit for that if it's just to practice on!!

You think a high quality maple kick for 65 pound is a bad deal? Some unfinished Slingy toms just came on so I'll be getting those.

 

Do you know of anywhere an entire Slingerland kit can be had for less than you'd buy a decent pedal? I think not.

 

I'm holding out on buying a snare in case I can find something good on eBay (in particular I'm after an old style Tama 14x8 brass) for less than US$110 and buying a pedal instead (an Axis X-L longboard single).

 

He doesnt hit the skin when he plays live. Can you get 'rim sensoring only' trigger pads?

Just use one of the pads off your electronic kit if you don't want to play the drum.

 

The right is naturally stronger and more acurate, you can get away with having a weak left hand until you start doing rudiments around the kit, paradiddles etc which you'll need to do now and again if your band are to be as technical as Muse.

Er, just what makes Muse so special?

[DanDrums]

Good Lord Niles! You paid that much for an old kick drum to re-cover and not match the lugs on your toms. You could have had the entire kit for that if it's just to practice on!!

You think a high quality maple kick for 65 pound is a bad deal? Some unfinished Slingy toms just came on so I'll be getting those.

 

Do you know of anywhere an entire Slingerland kit can be had for less than you'd buy a decent pedal? I think not.

 

 

No not an entire set of Slings but a rotten old practice kit. Yeah. Did you see the orange and white kit I made? I bought the shells, lugs, hoops mounting hardware and 2 cymbal stands for £50! Although admittedly it was completely shit.

 

I'm doing another project too. Niles you'll like this. I bought a set of blue acrylic shells off ebay for £54.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290056318592

As you can see from the ebay photo's the bass drum is knackered but I've removed the metal plates and glued the shell hoping it won't break again. If it does, Im going to turn the two rack toms into snares and probably powder coat the hoops and lugs white like I did on the other kit.

 

Mmmm. 12X8 & 13X9 acrylic snares!

[stakka]

Thanks for the helpful input Dan particularly when it's based on good experience - yeah the last thing I want to do is force him to do something against his will (pushy dad never!!!). I'll work something out one way or another.

 

You are right with the electric kit in that I can juggle some of the sounds around to reverse the kit - but my "it ain't straighforward" bit meant I hadn't elaborated in that I had upgraded to the V11 hit hat which uses a standard hit hat stand and had also strung a splash cymbal, a 15" ride and a second floor tom in to the mix with the cymbals mounting off eachother's supports (a picture would paint a thousand words here) so with all that and the additional cabling runs which are clamped down it is a bit more to shift around than a standard Roland kit. But we will sort sort it out.

 

Happy drumming !!

[Niles]

Nah, I've already got a dreadful kit for practise, it's donating the lugs to make my snare when the shell arrives. I'm especially after the highly resonant 3-ply w/ re-rings Slingy shells from the 60s/70s. That and the badges have "Niles" on them already. It's too much of a sign to ignore.

 

You could order a new shell for the bass drum from Gold'n'times or RCI Starlite

[ADAM]

Just use one of the pads off your electronic kit if you don't want to play the drum.

No roooooommmm!

[the_man361]

No roooooommmm!

 

no room on your kit or no room in your room?

cos badger used the electric pads with his kit, and that a fair bit bigger than yours so surely there is room!!!

 

like this:

 

[Niles]

How do those Staggs sound?

[the_man361]

How do those Staggs sound?

 

very nice actually. when i first saw them i said something like "arent stagg shit?" and he played them. i cant really describe it, but they dont carry the usual stagg "characteristics" (e.g. being shit)

[Jessek]

Can someone post a pic of his kit?

[ADAM]

no room on your kit or no room in your room?

cos badger used the electric pads with his kit, and that a fair bit bigger than yours so surely there is room!!!

 

like this:

 

 

 

My drums are closer than this pic! lol...ive moved them A LOT MORE closer together

 

 

Yeah sure I could have a drum rack on my right with a whole other drum kit spread all around me.....but I want it where a "1 up, 2 down" person has his ride. (so where my 2nd tom is)

 

I dont want to have to stretch right around. My china is as far right as I want to go.

 

I will have a pad on the left of my hats and that will be as far left as i want to go too.

 

Theres no room for a pad as my drums are there - so ill need a trigger.

 

PLUS pads are bulky.

[Niles]

You only one trigger, not the whole e-kit, (I think?) and I'd mount it off the bass drum hoop like a cowbell (they even use the same mounting apparatus) like Rodey Holmes/Steve Gadd do http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/rodneyholmesgroove.html. Just put the brain on a table behind you or near the sound guy.

 

very nice actually. when i first saw them i said something like "arent stagg shit?" and he played them. i cant really describe it, but they dont carry the usual stagg "characteristics" (e.g. being shit)

 

Staggs are very much lucky dip cymbals, you have to play the whole store but you can find some, especially the Myras which are quite decent.