Playing Unsustainable

[giovannicovanni]

Yeah I wasn’t around for months here, but I’ve got the email notifications. I didn’t know there are groups, I’ll check them out. 

Perhaps he used Axe Fx for those extreme, but at the same time “clean sounding” fuzz sound; or maybe for the bass? there seems to be a filter effect for the bass in the song, I don’t know..  

Did you try the file I sent you for the middle part of the song? 

[james90]

On 2/29/2020 at 8:25 PM, giovannicovanni said:

Yeah I wasn’t around for months here, but I’ve got the email notifications. I didn’t know there are groups, I’ll check them out. 

Perhaps he used Axe Fx for those extreme, but at the same time “clean sounding” fuzz sound; or maybe for the bass? there seems to be a filter effect for the bass in the song, I don’t know..  

Did you try the file I sent you for the middle part of the song? 

Sounds good - I'll send you the link to the one I'm in if you want. I think there are a few, but haven't really checked the others.

Here's the original post

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/muse-unsustainable.59805/#post-745908

I know what you mean about the filter effect though. I ended up making a backing track from the 5.1 audio from the Rome Olympic Stadium DVD and noticed this. The center channel only has the bass, drums, vocoder, and newscaster - the crowd noise and guitar are barely audible. Only issue is that the orchestra is missing.

I think I looked at it quickly but never got to try it. Any chance you can send it again?

What grid division are you using for the +2/-3 octave triplets? I keep going back and forth on the -3 octave and where it sounds best, but I'm starting to think that might have to do with the actual distortion sound.

Also, did you notice the fuzz factory oscillating in the background in certain parts of the song? It's the same sound at the very end, but you can hear it underneath the low A notes at times.

[giovannicovanni]

I’ve joined 3-4 groups at Facebook, the ones with the most members.

Making the backing track from the 5.1 is pretty genius tbh. The news reporter and robot sounds are important because they heavily contain bass, in my project I roughly isolated it from the original track and it’s not so effective because it doesn't have that bass hit (you’ll understand better when you listen mine). I ended up recreating the orchestra with Logic’s plugins and it’s sounding well, you can take it and see how it sounds with Rome Dvd backing track. 

I think I used /48 grid for the triplets and the tremolo effect. Whammy's buffer affects the tone when it's at -3, so a tremolo with square wave shape may sound better. My Strymon Mobius has a square tremolo feature, I may try seeing how it sounds.  

Yeah I kinda did. It may have been recorded with the dirtiest fuzzy sound possible (Oscillating Fuzz + internal gain with audio interface for the clipping) + a post EQ to make it sound more clear, but the key is clipping I guess.. I turned the gain up on my Focusrite one time and it sounded much realistic. The filter effect I'm talking about is for Chris btw, and I don't think he plays live with that effect. It sounds like a Lo-Pass env. filter, the sound that can also be heard at Plug In Baby's record. 

[james90]

14 hours ago, giovannicovanni said:

I’ve joined 3-4 groups at Facebook, the ones with the most members.

Making the backing track from the 5.1 is pretty genius tbh. The news reporter and robot sounds are important because they heavily contain bass, in my project I roughly isolated it from the original track and it’s not so effective because it doesn't have that bass hit (you’ll understand better when you listen mine). I ended up recreating the orchestra with Logic’s plugins and it’s sounding well, you can take it and see how it sounds with Rome Dvd backing track. 

I think I used /48 grid for the triplets and the tremolo effect. Whammy's buffer affects the tone when it's at -3, so a tremolo with square wave shape may sound better. My Strymon Mobius has a square tremolo feature, I may try seeing how it sounds.  

Yeah I kinda did. It may have been recorded with the dirtiest fuzzy sound possible (Oscillating Fuzz + internal gain with audio interface for the clipping) + a post EQ to make it sound more clear, but the key is clipping I guess.. I turned the gain up on my Focusrite one time and it sounded much realistic. The filter effect I'm talking about is for Chris btw, and I don't think he plays live with that effect. It sounds like a Lo-Pass env. filter, the sound that can also be heard at Plug In Baby's record. 

You're probably in the same one in that case. As for the backing track, that's true, though I did need to keep the LFE channel (which has the low frequencies) as well. But since that still had some guitar in it, I ended up duplicating the center channel and cutting everything above a certain frequency. Worked well enough.

Yeah that makes sense. Does the Strymon have MIDI control? The buffer does affect the sound as you say, but I think that's one of the reasons he used the DT for this song. When you combine settings using each side, you don't lose nearly as much sustain/fuzz with the -2 octave sound. 

If you listen to any performances of The Groove from 2015, the riff is played with that setting on the drop tune side - so it's basically that, but shifted down another octave by the whammy side of the pedal.

That's what I was thinking. He's said in the past that he likes plugging straight into the desk and cranking the gain up. I think in recent live performances it's the AC30 (Kemper) mixed with the VH4, which is his main high gain sound. I've definitely found that amp distortion works better than fuzz pedals.

 

 

 

[giovannicovanni]

Yeah, Strymon has MIDI control and it's a total life saver.. When I'm playing Muse I use 5 different phasers each song, and it saves me a lot of effort. I'll try the square Trem and see how it sounds.  

If you want to get the best tone, just place a loop pedal (if you've got one) first in the chain, record and twist the knobs, it's the perfect way to get it. I think distortion sounds better too (especially a high gain valve amp like VH4), you hear every note better. 

Not related, but I'm looking to get a distortion pedal since I don't own one. I have a Metal Muff of my friend's which sounds so.. metal.. Do you have anything to recommend for Muse sounds? 

[james90]

11 hours ago, giovannicovanni said:

Yeah, Strymon has MIDI control and it's a total life saver.. When I'm playing Muse I use 5 different phasers each song, and it saves me a lot of effort. I'll try the square Trem and see how it sounds.  

If you want to get the best tone, just place a loop pedal (if you've got one) first in the chain, record and twist the knobs, it's the perfect way to get it. I think distortion sounds better too (especially a high gain valve amp like VH4), you hear every note better. 

Not related, but I'm looking to get a distortion pedal since I don't own one. I have a Metal Muff of my friend's which sounds so.. metal.. Do you have anything to recommend for Muse sounds? 

So is this all on the phaser patch, but you're changing various parameters by MIDI?

Sort of related, but it looks like Matt now uses a Big Sky. Looks like it's on the Spring setting in this picture.

 

Yeah definitely a good idea about the loop pedal. I really should have one of those anyway, though my delay pedal can do a 40 second loop, which should work for this.

As for distortion, the obvious choice would probably be the Diezel VH4 pedal - but at the same time, Matt has said that the "core" sound is AC30 and he just blends the other amps with those. Even as early as the Absolution tour, I'm pretty sure he was running a separate direct fuzz signal on top of that. Might have just been from the Line 6 gear.

I generally get the distortion from the amp and only use pedals for overdrive or fuzz, but I've been intrigued by the Revv pedals. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPp_UsoypA4

Sounds like that could work pretty well. A big plus is that it has the individual EQ controls (which seem to have a large sweep too) so you can likely get it sounding how you want with your setup.

 

 

 

[giovannicovanni]

Phaser was just example, even though I always leave the phaser on for Muse, it really affects the sound for this song. It has 200 banks, so I modify each different then use MIDI for program changing. Tbh I'm not surprised he uses Big Sky, it's amazing and really easy to use with MIDI.

VH4 Pedal looks killer, though the price is kinda high for me.. If I'm going to spend that much, I may go with Rockfabrik Effects Mind Abuse Pedal, Matt used it for Drones, it's also got a 3-band EQ.

Edited March 7, 2020 by giovannicovanni

[james90]

On 3/7/2020 at 3:35 PM, giovannicovanni said:

Phaser was just example, even though I always leave the phaser on for Muse, it really affects the sound for this song. It has 200 banks, so I modify each different then use MIDI for program changing. Tbh I'm not surprised he uses Big Sky, it's amazing and really easy to use with MIDI.

VH4 Pedal looks killer, though the price is kinda high for me.. If I'm going to spend that much, I may go with Rockfabrik Effects Mind Abuse Pedal, Matt used it for Drones, it's also got a 3-band EQ.

Yeah, I'm sure he's got various presets he uses on it. Might have replaced that mystery reverb pedal he's been using for several years now. I never found out what it was, but there are other pedals that can do the same effect at least

It is a bit expensive. Might be worth seeing if there are any of the older versions around? As for the Mind Abuse, is that the one on The Globalist you're referring to?

That's the Machsonic Thrust Drive. I don't think they're being made anymore, and I've only seen two for sale in the past few years. Doesn't seem like anything special, but probably works well in that particular setup with the bass amp and 7 string.

 

 

 

[giovannicovanni]

16 hours ago, james90 said:

Yeah, I'm sure he's got various presets he uses on it. Might have replaced that mystery reverb pedal he's been using for several years now. I never found out what it was, but there are other pedals that can do the same effect at least

It is a bit expensive. Might be worth seeing if there are any of the older versions around? As for the Mind Abuse, is that the one on The Globalist you're referring to?

That's the Machsonic Thrust Drive. I don't think they're being made anymore, and I've only seen two for sale in the past few years. Doesn't seem like anything special, but probably works well in that particular setup with the bass amp and 7 string.

 

 

 

I'll look if there are any used older versions. Yes I was referring to it I thought it was Mind Abuse but apparently it's Machsonic Thrust Drive. There's one in reverb, in the back cover looks like his name is Tarkan Mumkule, I'm also from Istanbul so I'll try to contact him and see if he makes any.

Edit: Lol apparently he's actually very popular in Turkey, I see he only made 100 of them but I know someone who is a friend of him. Perhaps I can find one in Istanbul by chance.

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by giovannicovanni

[james90]

Yeah, there's an article where Tommaso Colliva (the engineer/producer) discusses that pedal briefly and how it was used for having a scooped sort of sound. Thing is, they were running it through that Ampeg head, so it will end up sounding quite a bit different depending on how the EQ is set. I think Matt's words were "extreme mids"

Supposedly some guy on twitter got the last of those pedals directly from the builder, but I saw he still has a website up - although it looks like a work in progress (as of 2018, and hasn't been updated since). Contacted him through there, but didn't hear anything.

If you find anything out, let me know - I'd be interested in one too, and I'm sure there's some demand at this point.

Having said all of that, it might not be the best choice for what you're currently looking for. It seems to be more of an overdrive, and I'm guessing you want a versatile high gain distortion of some kind? 

Not sure of your exact price range, but here are some others that come to mind.

-Keeley D&M Drive 

-MI Audio Crunch Box

-Fulltone OCD 

The D&M is sort of an overdrive/boost (or boost/overdrive - you can change the order) and it has quite a bit of drive available. Probably the most versatile of the three. The other two are basically high gain Marshall voiced pedals. The Crunch Box is definitely one of the best out there for that sound.

The Wampler stuff is great too, but I've only tried their fuzz pedals before.

Only other suggestion is some of the Mesa/Boogie pedals, but I know anything made by them is quite a bit more expensive outside of North America.

 

 

 

[giovannicovanni]

Sorry, didn't get the notification.. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check these out.

D&M is so similar to my Strymon Sunset Overdrive. It's also got 2 sides, with 3 mini switches on each side, giving options from boost, to high gain. I'm looking for more of a distortion sound because sometimes it's not enough when I crank the Sunset even with its most high gain features.

I'll try to contact and let you know when I talk with Machsonic.

[Stefan]

Hey guys , after all this time i just wonder if any of you could share the MIDI file for this song . Thanks 

[Iamx12]

Hi all,

I had the MIDI file of Unsustainable but unfortnaly loss it during a computer crash and apparantly had no back-up of this one. Is there any one who get send me a link to the file? Most links I found were not working anymore.

Thanks in advance guys!