Making these sounds

[Sound2k10]

Ok, so my favourite band is Biffy Clyro, but Muse are pretty damn good too. But my question to all you guys is about not just Biffy Clyro, but music in general where a certain sound is made but your not really sure about how it's made/produced and how he idea would have came about, so essentialy I have a few questions on the same topic.

 

1. How is sounds like these made(Instruments, Producing, Instrument Effects etc.):

 

@0:00-0:18 (And also, why is this sort of thing placed there? Why not jsut start out with the part at 0:18?)

 

@0:09

 

Just a few examples. Also, in general how are these sounds made? Is out all just down to the producer, really? Would a band just go in with an idea for a song and test out things in a studio to test out different sounds for their idea?

 

2. How do many of these ideas come about? The ones that are difficult to soley replicate on a guitar?

 

3. Listen to this song:

Like their isn't loads of different 'part' to it as such, but there's still quite a few. What I'm wondering is about this song aswell as in general is: are all the different sections of the songs linked in anyway in terms of theory? Or is finding all those different parts ure guesswork/trials and error?

 

and

 

Again with this song:

It would have been quite easy to have stuck with the opening riff throughout the entire song but instead it changed throughout the song..How are all these different parts 'discovered'?

 

It's the same with al their songs, none really follow a specific pattern or based on one riff..?

 

Are the just worked on for a long time?

[sampudd]

Riiiiiiiiiiiight...

 

The intro to Questions and Answers (the section you outlined, which is there, just... because..), is just a very distorted guitar, rung out notes, feedback, drum cymbals, all sorts of shit going on really.

 

As for Bodies in Flight (fucking awesome song), I THINK thats a Boss Metal Zone, Im pretty sure simon has one on his pedalboard. It just a very saturated distortion pedal. Im sure there is a fair amount of post production too, It sounds very scooped (mid frequencies cut). It is very very easy to replicate on guitar, because it IS guitar.

 

And with the last two songs, with regards to the structure and how it is all written, well, that is just down to who Biffy Clyro are and their style of music. It's very complex, lots of syncopation, off beat stuff, time signature changes etc. Some of it is probably trial and error, but then you'd have to ask simon neil that yourself, he could well be a musical genius and be able to write music like that very very easy.

 

Another band that has a very similar style of writing music (or at least the structure of) is The Fall of Troy. Though Thomas Erak shit's all over Simon Neil and Bellamy in terms of guitar ability, and the fact he can play technical shit flawlessly and sing offbeat at the same time...

[JimboMansonMB-1]

Riiiiiiiiiiiight...

 

The intro to Questions and Answers (the section you outlined, which is there, just... because..), is just a very distorted guitar, rung out notes, feedback, drum cymbals, all sorts of shit going on really.

 

As for Bodies in Flight (fucking awesome song), I THINK thats a Boss Metal Zone, Im pretty sure simon has one on his pedalboard. It just a very saturated distortion pedal. Im sure there is a fair amount of post production too, It sounds very scooped (mid frequencies cut). It is very very easy to replicate on guitar, because it IS guitar.

 

And with the last two songs, with regards to the structure and how it is all written, well, that is just down to who Biffy Clyro are and their style of music. It's very complex, lots of syncopation, off beat stuff, time signature changes etc. Some of it is probably trial and error, but then you'd have to ask simon neil that yourself, he could well be a musical genius and be able to write music like that very very easy.

 

Another band that has a very similar style of writing music (or at least the structure of) is The Fall of Troy. Though Thomas Erak shit's all over Simon Neil and Bellamy in terms of guitar ability, and the fact he can play technical shit flawlessly and sing offbeat at the same time...

 

This

[Jacky Boy]

Another band that has a very similar style of writing music (or at least the structure of) is The Fall of Troy. Though Thomas Erak shit's all over Simon Neil and Bellamy in terms of guitar ability, and the fact he can play technical shit flawlessly and sing offbeat at the same time...

BUT....

 

 

Simon Neil's lyrics shit all over Thomas Erak's though. And Biffy's songs are generally better

[sampudd]

BUT....

 

 

Simon Neil's lyrics shit all over Thomas Erak's though. And Biffy's songs are generally better

 

Yeah id definitely agree. Biffy's lyrics are generally quite clever in the way they are pronounced and put together.

[Jacky Boy]

Yeah id definitely agree. Biffy's lyrics are generally quite clever in the way they are pronounced and put together.

Biffy are my favourite band, so I would say that. Still a big fan of The Fall of Troy though, gutted they split up, thankfully I managed to see them live before it ended though.

 

Back on topic I would say just experiment with your gear until you find sounds that you like, you shouldn't just try and replicate the sounds of your favourite bands because you won't get very far unless you have lots of £££'s to spend on gear.

 

As far as songwriting goes theres so many different methods to getting a good riff/chord sequence it's pointless going through them all. One thing I like doing is just jamming with my drummer and I manage to come up with plently of good stuff on the spot. But how Biffy do it I don't know, I can only repeat what has been said in that you'd have to ask Simon Neil himself how he comes up with the kind of music he does.

[Sound2k10]

Riiiiiiiiiiiight...

 

The intro to Questions and Answers (the section you outlined, which is there, just... because..), is just a very distorted guitar, rung out notes, feedback, drum cymbals, all sorts of shit going on really.

 

As for Bodies in Flight (fucking awesome song), I THINK thats a Boss Metal Zone, Im pretty sure simon has one on his pedalboard. It just a very saturated distortion pedal. Im sure there is a fair amount of post production too, It sounds very scooped (mid frequencies cut). It is very very easy to replicate on guitar, because it IS guitar.

 

And with the last two songs, with regards to the structure and how it is all written, well, that is just down to who Biffy Clyro are and their style of music. It's very complex, lots of syncopation, off beat stuff, time signature changes etc. Some of it is probably trial and error, but then you'd have to ask simon neil that yourself, he could well be a musical genius and be able to write music like that very very easy.

 

Another band that has a very similar style of writing music (or at least the structure of) is The Fall of Troy. Though Thomas Erak shit's all over Simon Neil and Bellamy in terms of guitar ability, and the fact he can play technical shit flawlessly and sing offbeat at the same time...

 

Right, so basically it all comes down to experimentation with effect pedals, producing techniques etc.?

 

As for time signatures I'm looking at some youtube videos on how to learn them and apply them, once I learn them I take it I'll be able to apply it to my own riffs/songs etc.? Does time signatures apply to singular notes aswell as chords and Drums and Bass also? Adn even lyrics?

 

If a guitar is playing in one time signature will the drums and bass always be playing that aswell or can they be playing different ones at the same time?

 

What do you mean syncopation and offbeat stuff? And is there anything else in their music that I can learn from?

 

I'm not wanting to copy their msic exactly or anything just take their way of experimentation and apply it to myself.

 

And any idea what the time signature is for the intro to Questions and Answers..

 

Thanks.

[Plex]

I don't think you understand fully about time signatures. Some songs (or parts of songs) have no definite time signature. The into to Questions and Answers is not in a time signature. It is simply random hitting on the drums and basically hitting random notes on the guitar.

 

 

This is a good example of a song by muse that is not in a specific time signature. It COULD be in 4/4 (except the intro), but there's so much "hesitation" that is isn't in a time signature. (Another example is the Butterflies and Hurricanes piano solo. It has no definite time signature)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1CnsI4Jm9Q

 

 

Syncopation is when the off-beat is accented. For example, in the bass drum part to Supermassive Black Hole by Muse, which is in 4/4, You would count the measures like this:

 

(The words in all caps are the beats where the bass drum plays)

(|| marks the start of a new measure)

ONE and two AND three and four and || ONE and two AND three and four and || ONE and two AND three and four and || one AND two AND three and four and ||

 

Notice how the bass drum plays on the off-beats (and also the on-beats) The accented notes are on "beat one" and "the and of beat two".

 

 

Also, all instruments must be playing in the same time signature at the same time, or else it will just be a mess! Songs can change time signatures though. I remember a song that went from 4/4 to 7/8 to 4/4 to 9/8. An example of this is Agitated by Muse. It is in 4/4, but goes to 5/4 at the end.

[DJF]

This is a good example of a song by muse that is not in a specific time signature. It COULD be in 4/4 (except the intro), but there's so much "hesitation" that is isn't in a time signature. (Another example is the Butterflies and Hurricanes piano solo. It has no definite time signature)

 

Both examples there do have specific time signatures, but both very liberally use fermati (pauses) and rubati (a general rhythmic freedom, with variation between faster and slower parts such as the Butterflies piano solo).

 

Also, all instruments must be playing in the same time signature at the same time, or else it will just be a mess!

 

Not strictly the case. Polyrhythms within an arrangement can be pulled off really well. An easy to hear example is the intro to Dream Theater's song Learning to Live (

). The keyboard starts off in 15/8, and then the drums start in 0:06 with a 4/4 feel, which you can hear as the accents on the keyboard part hitting at different points along the drum line. Around 0:13 the guitar matches the drums, before all the instruments come together in 7/4 around 0:26.

 

Songs can change time signatures though. I remember a song that went from 4/4 to 7/8 to 4/4 to 9/8. An example of this is Agitated by Muse. It is in 4/4, but goes to 5/4 at the end.

 

Absolutely. There are countless tracks that do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dSztjpJNNk is a 6-minute track with over 100 time signature changes..

[Plex]

Wow. That 15/8 keyboard with the drums and guitar sounded strange. 15/8 and 4/4 are really only different by a quarter note.though (Technically they're different by 3.5 beats, but 8/4 and 4/4 are basically the same thing)

 

Also, if you could name the actual time signature of the beginning of Bedroom Acoustics, I will be impressed. (The part where the E Phrygian Scale is played)