Zaphod Chizzlebrox
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Posts posted by Zaphod Chizzlebrox
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We're probably both right, and we're probably both wrong. I still think Bellamy sings in head voice on record more than he does falsetto. Sippe is entitled to think differently as is his right. I think we've exhausted any discussion now and will go tound in circles.
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For some reason I read that as Marilyn Manson. Goddamnit.Give me an example of when SHE does this. I never said falsetto is a vocal register. It is a tone of the HEAD register, and impossible to create with the chest voice. The falsetto isn't a part of the modal/full voice. Try singing a chest note, and then going up to falsetto without breaking. You may be able to hide it well, but it IS physically impossible. At least by the standard definition of what a falsetto is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha3Pyt4wsGA
Falsetto isn't confined to the head voice register, falsetto occurs when the vocal chords are open and allowing lots of air through. The Bee Gees used both Falsetto and head voice as well. Compare "How Deep Is Your Love" with something like "Tragedy". The former is sung with falsetto, the latter head voice. The difference is quite obvious.
Like I said though, even trained vocal coaches think falsetto is the same as head voice because that's what they were taught. There IS no accepted standard definition of falsetto, mainly because of the way it's been taught over the years. I mean, it was taught that men singing above chest voice were using falsetto whereas women singing above chest voice were using head voice, which is a fallacy.
Most high notes are the result of vocal chord adduction, which is a factor in head voice. The type of vocal chord vibration that produces the falsetto voice precludes loud singing except in the highest tones of that register; it also limits the available tone colors because of the simplicity of its waveform.
If you don't accept my own understanding and explanation then fine, give me your understanding of what falsetto is and the difference between it and head voice
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"Falsetto can be done in chest voice as well, for example Marilyn Monroe"
I wasn't talking about Muse, it was a general point that falsetto isn't a vocal register
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Can you give me an example where he does this?
And once again, your definition of a falsetto makes it IMPOSSIBLE for it to be stronger than head voice, since by your definition, when a falsetto becomes strong and high it becomes head voice.
By the standard(most used) definition of falsetto, it's much easier to reach high notes, since falsetto requires a lot less strain and tension(not saying that tension is bad).
Where who does what?
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Falsetto can be done in chest voice as well, for example Marilyn Monroe. Falsetto can be done on most notes, but head voice generally tops out at a higher level than falsetto can.
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Yes, that was my fault. I blame lack of sleep at 5 am
Just because his falsetto sounds light and airy at some times doesn't mean it always has to. The falsetto is more than that. Statements such as "t's not really possible to scream without using the full force of the chest" are still unexplained and you can't really back up a statement like that. What is screaming? It's no different than any other thing you can do with your falsetto. If you have a powerful falsetto, it's VERY possible to "scream". And many artists do so, Robert Plant, Adam Lambert and Jeff Buckley are just a few of them.
Ah well, nobody's perfect, eh
Debate on this can go on for years, quite a lot of music teachers still think falsetto is the same as head voice and the two terms are interchangeable. But I'll try.
To me, falsetto is a light and weak, almost keening, vocalisation. There is a point where as the singer puts more effort in, effectively turns the volume up, it becomes head voice. That's my generally understood definition of it, that falsetto is a weak vocalisation, hence the name falsetto..."false voice".
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Yes, I know that Matt replaces a lot of strong notes with lighter falsetto ones. But we are talking about the HIGH notes. Like the ones in Showbiz, KoC and Micro Cuts. If that "YEAH" is even using his head voice(not sure, will have to listen again later), it is definitely a mix and uses a lot of chest, which is not what we are talking about. WE are discussing the high notes that uses the tops of the head and barely any, IF any, chest.
And like I said, how can you tell the difference? You said they sounded alike because of distortion, then how do you tell them apart? You said by the duration of the notes, which isn't true for any of these songs. To me these notes sounds just the same live as on record(except for KoC which is VERY hard to hear). I still don't get how you tell them apart.
I wish I could explain it in terms you can understand, but clearly I cannot
To my ears, Bellamy is using head voice on the songs we discussed, on record. He is most likely using head voice for THOSE SAME SONGS live, but I can't be arsed with finding live recordings. I never said that he was using falsetto on those songs live, as opposed to on record. You came up with that connection purely because I mentioned Bellamy using falsetto to rest his vocal chords in certain parts. You made that connection, not me.
As far as I am concerned, Bellamy uses head voice on his records most of the time. His falsetto tends to sound lighter and airier, like the vocalisations at the end of Citizen Erased. That, to me, is Bellamy's falsetto. It sounds completely different to his high notes reached on Micro Cuts, at least it does to me. If you can't understand that then you never will, I'm so so sorry for you
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But we already know that Matt has really good breath support. It's not like Matt are doing high falsetto screams all the time. He usually has like one high scream per song that he holds for no longer than 5-8 seconds. The airy sound IS very noticeable during his high screams.
You also said that he did falsetto instead of head voice live to save his voice, but he holds these notes just as good as on record in most cases.
Am I just misunderstanding you? Because you are saying that he does falsetto live to save the voice, but also that his high notes are too powerful to be falsetto(notes that are just as powerful live as on record in a lot of cases).
Example: Apocalypse Please.
On record, Bellamy sings "This is the end YEAAAHHH" and the YEEEEAAAHHHH sounds strong, powerful, not airy.
Live, when Bellamy does that same bit he falsettos the YEEEAAHHHH rather than sing at full power. That's where he tends to use falsetto on saving his voice. I never said at any point that he was using falsetto on the exact same songs we were discussing, merely that he uses falsetto more live in order to preserve his vocal chords.
ON RECORD, on Showbiz at the end, in Micro Cuts, and in the beginning of KoC, he is using head voice. There are probably many other songs where he uses head voice rather than falsetto, but you asked originally where Bellamy uses head voice, and those are the prime examples.
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But, power has NO impact on the determination of however vocals are falsetto or head voice. Strain could be one, but still, it's just about how you use the voice, how much power you get out of it doesn't change anything.
But tell me then, if his vocals live are mostly falsetto, and the recordings sounds like falsetto because of the distortion, how can you tell that it's head voice? Because of the power? That gets us back to the point that you can't determine falsetto/head voice by the power.
Because of the length of time he sustains when singing. Falsetto singing would be much shorter because he'd have to take more breaths more often.
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Yes, all this is true(except the last bit which I still don't agree with, if so, his head voice is both weak and sounds just like his falsetto, then what is the point?). But in no way does that mean that you can't have a powerful falsetto.
I never said you couldn't have a powerful falsetto
all I said was that the vocals recorded by Bellamy were too powerful to be considered as falsetto. There is a point in KoC where he dips down to what would probably be considered falsetto (the second half of the opening vocalisations, before the lyric singing kicks in). But mostly it's head voice, and the treatment in post-production can make it seem more like falsetto because it distorts the true clean vocal. -
The head voice is a lot more powerful than the falsetto, but that doesn't mean the falsetto can't be powerful. What are you basing this on? You own voice?
The only difference is how your vocal chords move and how much resonance you get from your chest. More chest gives more power, but if that would have been head voice, he clearly doesn't have any connection to the chest, which means all this talk about chest power makes no difference.
The chest power does make a difference, as in head voice the singer tends to push more air out of his lungs at a harder rate (mainly due to the more closed vocal chords meaning the air has to be pushed through harder). In falsetto the focing of air through the vocal chords isn't as pronounced, therefore you don't tend to get very powerful falsetto voices too often, falsetto is used in a much more relaxed manner than head voice is.
Bellamy is somewhere between a baritone and a tenor vocally, he doesn't use falsetto that much on records. He uses it more live when he's saving his vocal chords from over-strain.
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Too powerful? Do you have ANY idea what you are talking about?
More so than you, it would seem
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What would you call the high vocals in the beginning of KoC?
Head voice. Too powerful to be falsetto.
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Bellamy also uses head voice at the end of Showbiz.
He tends to use falsetto a lot more live, mainly to rest his vocal chords as falsetto puts less strain through them.
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I have done several times. It's not hard.
I bet it doesn't sound like Bellamy on Micro Cuts either
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Not possible to scream without the full force of the chest? Where did you make that up?
You try a falsetto scream
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When is Matt using his head voice?
On Micro Cuts for the particularly high notes he uses head voice as opposed to falsetto...after all, it's not really possible to scream without using the full force of the chest.
In fact, if the vocal treatment was to be taken away from Micro Cuts, you would hear that it is head voice all the way through. The way it's been treated in post-production makes it sound more falsetto than it actually is.
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My bad. I was thinking of the concert in general. Next best song would be... Sunburn. Love the speed of that piano. Dont really like the Absolution songs on there. Seems like Muse was still just getting used to them at that time.Really? For me that's when the songs still had the real energy, before it all got rehearsed and part of a show.
Glastonbury was nearer the end of the Absolution tour, wasn't it? Personally I felt that tour, or the gigs I saw, was Muse at their best. The backdrop wasn't over the top, and it was more about the Music. Plus Bellamy was still young enough to reach the high notes.
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Not even with a bonus song?
No, cause knowing my luck the bonus song will be NSC or Guiding Light
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No, but you will get a bonus song on your next gig.
I'm not going to see Muse again. Until they make an interstellar quality album, instead of the dross they have done for a long time.
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The setlist length has to do with the ticket price, that is higher for a stadium, what don't you understand?
I wish that were the case for individual gigs...I got less than almost anywhere else when I saw them at Liverpool last year, I'd like a partial refund on my ticket, plzkthx.
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It gets so much hate because a lot of the fans are too closed-minded to appreciate pop music (or anything that isn't angsty alt-rock).
Or maybe it gets so much hate because the fans know that everything Muse has attempted on it has already been done, and in a far far better way.
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Aaaaaanyway, back on topic:
Undisclosed Desires COULD have been good, but it's a poor rip-off of an Ultravox song and isn't in any way original. I don't doubt that Muse have it in them to produce original takes on different styles of music, but they desperately need to put some effort into it instead of just copying blatantly off other bands and artists.
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But I remember reading during the BH&R tour how much Muse loved the South American fans. And yet, they can't be arsed to provide these fans with their own gigs but rather make fans play shitloads for shit U2 tickets just for 7-8 songs?
I'm sure they'll go back and do their own full tour at some point, I just can't see them doing supports then their own gigs so close together.
For some reason I read that as Marilyn Manson. Goddamnit.
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