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JamesWS

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Posts posted by JamesWS

    Reapers (Song)

    in Songs & Releases

    Posted

    Moving up a year makes perfect sense, it's a common saying, whereas moving up a gear makes nearly no sense at all. War is defined in terms of time. He's not saying "gear".

     

    'Moving up a gear makes' far more sense i.e escalating. Moving 'up' a year makes little sense.

     

    EDIT: *Step

    2015.03.15 - Ulster Hall, Belfast, NI

    in Gigs

    Posted

    Yeah man, Englishman tells an Irish crowd that their uncle died in the Troubles definitely comes across as neutral.

     

    As for anyone else, stop using personal anecdotes to trivialise what Wraffah actually witnessed. It's pointless. Muse aren't infallible. Stop being that kind of fan.

     

    Are you serious? You're throwing numerous assumptions on to what he simply said. If he said something I felt was ill-judged I would say it, it's rather condescending of you to think otherwise.

    2015.03.15 - Ulster Hall, Belfast, NI

    in Gigs

    Posted

    Old enough and sensible enough to know that there's a very good reason bands on tour in Ireland don't talk about or provoke things. I've been to plenty of shows there and its never, ever been mentioned before - and nor has it been an issue. Eg Iron Maiden dropped the Trooper from their set at the Odyssey in 2011 because Bruce runs around waving a Union Flag as part of the show. If bands as large as Maiden won't play a song about the Crimean War in case it pisses someone off, bringing The Troubles up explictly should have been an obviously bad idea.

     

    The dedicated song was Uprising. The political connotations are so obvious I don't even feel I should have to keep pointing them out. at no stage have I said it was anything but a tragedy that people lost their lives in the conflict - but this show, their first in Belfast since 2006, was not the forum to share that. If you're going to tell me otherwise, perhaps you should have been at the show and watched it go down like a lead balloon for yourself. I wouldn't make this up. I'd much rather be bragging about catching every rare song they've played lately bar Yes Please and Map of the Problematique than splitting hairs about this!

     

     

     

    I disagree that it wasn't ill judged for the reasons above. The fact we're talking about this instead of how good and exciting the show was proves that to me. If you disagree, that's okay too - we don't have to keeping hammering through on this topic. My main point throught this has been that it is awkward and for that reason I think something else should have been said which wasn't awkward. That is literally all I am arguing here. The republicans example is based on a simplistic assumption that, as the society is roughly 47% unionist and 45% nationalist, it would break down into 40% of each and 20% from abroad or undeclared. This is a guess based on the rough breakdown of Northern Irish demographics as disclosed in the 2011 census and some mild guesswork, rather than some empirical statement. It at no point has extremist (ie actively terrorist supporting) implications in my usage, as it is a political word used to describe a political viewpoint (which I myself hold), and I would apologise if you assumed that I was labelling almost half the crowd as such. That was never my intention.

     

    You're confusing Nationalist with Republican which has caused the problem. Yes, I agree we should be talking about the gig (which I was at!) It wasn't meant to be received with a response from the crowd, he was dedicating a song to a deceased relative, no one in their right minds should take offence to it.

    2015.03.15 - Ulster Hall, Belfast, NI

    in Gigs

    Posted · Edited by JamesWS

    Generally the words "killed here" and "The Troubles" won't win you any favours in Ireland, even for those of us that come from here. In our post conflict country, we're still very raw and not used to hearing those words. It's a massive taboo and we don't talk about it, never mind English people or anyone else coming over and talking to us about it as an ill judged attempt to connect with us. Consider that at least 40% of the people at that show would be Republicans who object to any and all British involvement in the North at least in theory, if not through active engagement themselves, and you should at least be able to appreciate why it was not a good idea - it immediately splits the crowd into "us" and "them", which is what we've spent the past 15 years trying (for the most part, unsuccessfully) to grow beyond.

     

    I think it's a fair bet that most of the people in the crowd were affected by some family connection in the Troubles - we're a small, humble place, and the attacks during those years were both disturbingly common and had a massive, far reaching impact. Pretty much everyone from here lost a friend or relative during them, if not more. It wasn't poorly received out of spite or disgust - nobody booed it and nobody left the show or anything, at least that I'm aware of - and the show moved on almost immediately, but it was awkward - I noticeably felt the atmosphere just shrink, and the people around me made awkward jokes amongst themselves to diffuse it in that particular Northern Irish Way - and in that light I'm not comfortable with people like yourself trying to downplay or trivialise it.

     

    It was only an awkward moment as people didn't know how to react. It was not ill-judged as he did not voice an opinion of it, he only stated that his uncle was killed which there is absolutely no problem mentioning in this context.

     

    Your statement that at least 40% of the crowd are republican is both misinformed and innapropriate for a music forum.

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