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Origin XX


Jobby
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4 hours ago, Claudia O said:

Ok… call me old-fashioned, but to me they sound too sterile, there‘s no warmth, soulless. It sounds unfinished to me. Matt said they wanted to make them sound more modern, well this is the problem I have with most modern (charts)music… it‘s too perfect! I know those are the original recordings, but did they cut out faults or something like that? Cut off edges? 
 

I stick to the original.

I wouldn’t say it’s too perfect, but it definitely lacks soul. It’s always hard to compare something like this to the way the original made me feel 20 years ago, so I’m not sure how much of the soullessness is imagined, but mix is undoubtedly harsher and sharper. 
 

I see it more as a cabinet of curiosities, an interesting insight into the elements that were left out. Not an album to lay back and listen to start to finish (which I did to the original countless times).

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Posted (edited)

Ultimately, even seemingly odd choices/mistakes aside, Origin was always the album that needed a new, updated shiny modern mix the least anyway. If any record benefits from sounding raw and harsh at times, it’s that. Releasing the stems would’ve been nice as part of the package, to make it stand out a bit more.

The main thing I’m taking away from this project is that it’s hopefully the start of a few updates to other records that could actually do with the treatment this decade. Cough cough we all know which I mean cough.

…or maybe they’ll just continue to exclusively obsess over different Origin-related anniversaries :’)

Edited by Jobby
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18 hours ago, That Little Animal said:

Is anyone else noticing the weird volume changes in New Born? That to me is another indication that it was rushed. Also the inconsistency between songs, like they were all edited independently of each other and not revisited a second time after to make them match. If it had been consistent with Futurism as the Gold Standard, it would have been a winner. 
 

Was it just Matt and Dom doing these over a few beers? 

I didn't notice any volume issues with New Born, but what I am noticing is a super high pitched noise. Like, not an instrument but pulsating overtones that are really fucking with my ears. Very noticeable during the outro riff. 

And about this album as a whole, it's so clearly not "the way it was always supposed to sound" or whatever Matt said. They've literally just tacked on every single thing that was previously left out due to...actual music-related reasons. I know I might be reading into it too much but it really solidifies my biggest issue with Muse these days. They simply don't understand subtlety or "sometimes less is more" anymore. 

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What if they had planned a mini-tour with OOS but due to Covid it‘s impossible, so they did this instead 😨 because they just released the boxset … I mean, it‘s enough now! But a tour 😍😍😍😍 fingers crossed they‘ll do it later. Yes, there‘s my optimism again lol

Edited by Claudia O
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hat said:

And about this album as a whole, it's so clearly not "the way it was always supposed to sound" or whatever Matt said. They've literally just tacked on every single thing that was previously left out due to...actual music-related reasons. I know I might be reading into it too much but it really solidifies my biggest issue with Muse these days. They simply don't understand subtlety or "sometimes less is more" anymore. 

Yeah, honestly this whole vibe made me chuckle a fair few times throughout. I still love Muse now, Sim Theory’s my 4th favourite record, but I guess we do now have an answer to the old hyposthesis of “how would x album sound if Modern Muse made it?” and it’s pretty on-point. Obviously the whole ‘less is more’ being a non-existent concept is a big part of that (I mean, who wouldn’t have bet their house on every shred of unused strings coming back with extreme prejudice?) but even just in terms of the overall mix as well.

After hearing CE, I thought it was gonna be a lot worse though ngl. In the end, it’s not excruciating and I’m not mad it exists. Some people are very keen for it and fair play to them but I don’t think this will generally be taken in as the ‘intended’/definitive version of Origin by any means. There are a few nice additions to hear, even if not all of them actually work, and the odd song is mostly better off. It’s just a shame that even those (bar Screenager and maybe Bliss) also have something that frustratingly drags them back, for me at least.

26 minutes ago, Claudia O said:

What if they had planned a mini-tour with OOS but due to Covid it‘s impossible, so they did this instead 😨 because they just released the boxset … I mean, it‘s enough now! But a tour 😍😍😍😍 fingers crossed they‘ll do it later. Yes, there‘s my optimism again lol

Really doubt it tbh, pretty sure they always planned 2021 to be an album recording year and they seemed pretty definitive about the 2011 shows. Matt also kinda waved the idea off when he was asked about it in an interview a while ago iirc.

It’s something a lot of people started to talk about again coming up to this year but I never really liked the idea at all tbh, for a bunch of reasons. They already did it with all the bells and whistles at L+R 2011, around Matt’s peak vocally, so anything else would inevitably be a step down. It’d also set a pretty awkward precedent to have only celebrated 1 album’s anniversary, and then to have played it in full each decade since release. Like, do they just keep playing Origin every 10 years until they retire? Then there’s the fact that, after the 2011 shows, they purposefully didn’t do any other anniversary shows that decade because they didn’t want people to start expecting it of them - so if that happened again, I’d rather at least see a new anniversary than an old one repeated.

I get that I’m speaking from the POV of someone who was around for and lucky enough to see the 2011 show though, if I hadn’t I’d almost certainly be begging for it as well. But, trying to be objective, it’s best that people move on and the band leave those shows to remain special imo.

#BlackHoles2026 bayBEE

Edited by Jobby
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Considering that Muse used the more stripped down version of Algorithm for Simulation Theory, I'm not so sure that the argument of OoS Remixx sounding like what modern Muse would do, holds much water. I think much of the tracks cut out of OoS point towards what the band progressed in Absolution. Had the band another month or two in the studio, I imagine they might have gotten some the more orchestral bits to work. I think during the recording of OoS, there was a lot of emphasis on how the songs would sound live, this might be why a lot of the non-core instrument flourishes were left on the cutting room floor. Remixx is a mixed bag overall, some songs were obviously meant to be improved (PiB, Bliss, Futurism etc.) while others were meant to show off cut content regardless of overall quality of the song(Microcuts, Feeling Good, Space Dementia). It's hard to listen to Remix without contrasting with OoS which has had 20 years to burn itself into my synapses, so with the exception of Futurism I doubt Remix will become my go-to for 2001 goodness.

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1 hour ago, Silentgod86 said:

Considering that Muse used the more stripped down version of Algorithm for Simulation Theory, I'm not so sure that the argument of OoS Remixx sounding like what modern Muse would do, holds much water. 

One song doesn't really disprove what we're theorizing. Especially not when that same album contains songs like Something Human, Dig Down and The Void which all had more stripped down original versions. And it's not like this is a new thing. In my opinion, Muse have put unnecessary additions to songs for years now. Still think the backing vocals and guitar solo in Madness goes completely against the vibe of the rest of the song.

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1 hour ago, Hat said:

One song doesn't really disprove what we're theorizing. Especially not when that same album contains songs like Something Human, Dig Down and The Void which all had more stripped down original versions. And it's not like this is a new thing. In my opinion, Muse have put unnecessary additions to songs for years now. Still think the backing vocals and guitar solo in Madness goes completely against the vibe of the rest of the song.

True (though I think those ST alternates were specifically recorded for the deluxe album which is what many bands do these days), but you're ignoring the fact that if Muse's career was a venn diagram, the area of where Muse intersects with subtlety or restraint is very small. Even back around OoS, critics were ridiculing Matt's over the top hystronics for being self indulgent (not my opinion). Absolution and BHAR pretty much cemented that reputation. Drones was fairly restrained though to be fair. The problem with Muse being over indulgent in my opinion, is that they've forgotten how to make it work around a decent song and anything they've attempted post Exogenesis is unearned and trying to fill the void of poor songwriting. 

Edited by Silentgod86
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Nah at least Something Human and Dig Down started as the stripped down versions. Matt said as much around the time of the album release.

 

I remember because it was such a dumb thing. They began the writing process by talking about how great it was to be able to work on individual songs without having to consider the rest of the album. They also talked about the freedom it gave them to go in any direction they felt like with every song.

Then when the album was released Matt revealed that they wrote the gospel version of Dig Down and thought it didn't fit with the other songs they had written so they rewrote it all to fit into a synthwave/electronic rock sound. So dumb, and so Muse.

And we can just look at the OoS remix to see that their attitude to songwriting has changed. They specifically said that they removed the strings because it was a bit too much and the songs became too all over the place and overpacked. Same thing with songs on Absolution.

Abso also had songs like Blackout, Endlessly and Ruled By Secrecy. None of which have any over the top ridiculousness that basically every Muse ballad has these days. 

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I love Blackout but it is completely over the top, the same with Sing For Absolution, Stockholm Syndrome and Butterflies and Hurricanes. It worked for Absolution because the songs were strong and could carry the weight of the production. The same can be said for much of Black Holes and Revelations. A Soldier's Poem could work if it was just Matt and a piano but also works with indulgent production on the album. Completely unlike Dig Down and Something Human where the core tunes are fundamentally weak  because despite his intentions, Matt is neither a Popstar or a pop tunesmith. 

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Posted (edited)

Obviously Muse have always been an over-the-top band, it’s one of their biggest draws, but I don’t think there’s much room for denying that they have still lost some sense of restraint and fallen deeper into the tunnel-vision “more = better” mindset over the years. You can’t really get a more textbook example than these XX interviews. 2001 Muse openly admitted to cutting elements because they were too much and didn’t fit the song or album, 2021 Muse can’t fathom why they weren’t used and throws everything back on without question. Similarly, even by Black Holes, they were still rejecting songs like Soaked for sounding too cheesy and going too far, then by the next record that became their standard piano ballad.

Drones was relatively stripped back in comparison to its surrounding albums but that’s largely because they went out of their way to hire a strict producer in Mutt. When they have more control, like normal, you get a TR, T2L or Sim Theory. That’s not inherently a bad thing for me, I still love them like I’ve said (well, one of those 3 at least). But they have changed and their more modern mindset doesn’t mesh well with something like Origin’s charm at all, and it ends up being really telling is all I’m saying. Not just in the additions, but the mixing in general imo.

Edited by Jobby
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Same goes with their tours. More more more … they said that people expect huge sets, pyro etc. well, really? Yes, it is great, but I‘d love to see a stripped down gig, not only in small venues where most of us miss out getting in! Do it in the others as well! If some journalists don‘t like it, so wtf really? There are always bad critics … 

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29 minutes ago, knightofcydonia said:

I think it's been fixed on Spotify. Sounds like it to me, or maybe I'm overthinking it. Someone on a reddit thread also mentioned it was fixed on Spotify.

So it was probably an issue with the files rather than  sloppy remixing. That's good. 

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8 hours ago, Claudia O said:

Oh! You meant the missing bars at the start? Yes, it‘s fixed on Spotify and on youtube 👍

Does that mean that the iTunes version should be fixed as well?

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19 hours ago, Claudia O said:

Oh! You meant the missing bars at the start? Yes, it‘s fixed on Spotify and on youtube 👍

Hrm, wait where do you see it fixed on YouTube?? The official audio track (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZbDuO-Ks3k) is the same age as the other tracks and still has the dodgy opening bar. Spotify version sure sounds great, though. So clearly it was an error (pity!) and they're doing what they can to remedy it. Seems strange that an error like this passed all quality checks, it's the one thing that stands out when you listen to the whole album each track sequentially (as I'm sure most of us would have done upon release). I definitely noticed something was off but didn't make much of it until I started seeing peeps complaining about it everywhere, lol

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