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LP9: WOTP Discussion/Speculation Thread


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38 minutes ago, Citizen_Eraser said:

It's not technically a government building. The ministry of truth became a meme/1984 reference recently because the Biden admin talked about creating a government body to combat online misinformation. So people started jokingly calling it the "ministry of truth" ala 1984. 

I'm not sure how many of you live in America or are aware of things like this. 

It’s funny how many people in America are unaware that online misinformation is a powerful tool parties in power use to alter your perception of reality. The baffling short-sightedness of then only labeling the effort to curb such misinformation as Orwellian is beyond me. 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, That Little Animal said:

It’s funny how many people in America are unaware that online misinformation is a powerful tool parties in power use to alter your perception of reality. The baffling short-sightedness of then only labeling the effort to curb such misinformation as Orwellian is beyond me. 

Yep, well put. This seemingly "post-truth" nonsense drives me nuts (more so than usual).

Side-notes: Matt Bellamy wasn't Team Insurrection; he was just the opposite:

Tweeted by him on 1/6/2021: "Section 4 please https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendment/amendment-xxv"

I also think some people are reading too much into "Ministry of Truth." Chances are it has everything to do with Orwell/authoritarian governments in a fictional place, and nothing to do with the Biden administration.

Edited by EternallyPissed
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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, EternallyPissed said:

I also think some people are reading too much into "Ministry of Truth." Chances are it has everything to do with Orwell/authoritarian governments in a fictional place, and nothing to do with the Biden administration.

Yes, of course. But that is the arrogance of online ‘researchers’. They see any overlap with the nonsense they spread as confirmation of the nonsense they spread. 

They go: ‘Muse say ministry of truth!!1!! Red pill confirmed!!’, rather than: ‘George Orwell wrote 1984, a novel about propaganda and oppression in an authoritarian regime. Since its publication, 1984 is often referenced by opponents of real and perceived authoritarianism and propaganda. In response, propagandists themselves like to accuse their political opponents of Orwellian practices.

Some recent examples of 1984 references are memes referring to the Biden administration’s efforts to curb online misinformation as the ‘Ministry of Truth’, and the band Muse referencing the ‘Ministry of Truth’ in their video accompanying the song ‘Will of the People’, which, like much of their work, expresses a generic sense of outrage against the ruling class.
’ 

Edited by That Little Animal
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18 minutes ago, That Little Animal said:

Yes, of course. But that is the arrogance of online ‘researchers’. They see any overlap with the nonsense they spread as confirmation of the nonsense they spread. 

They go: ‘Muse say ministry of truth!!1!! Red pill confirmed!!’, rather than: ‘George Orwell wrote 1984, a novel about propaganda and oppression in an authoritarian regime. Since its publication, 1984 is often referenced by opponents of real and perceived authoritarianism and propaganda. In response, propagandists themselves like to accuse their political opponents of Orwellian practices.

Some recent examples of 1984 references are memes referring to the Biden administration’s efforts to curb online misinformation as the ‘Ministry of Truth’, and the band Muse referencing the ‘Ministry of Truth’ in their video accompanying the song ‘Will of the People’, which, like much of their work, expresses a generic sense of outrage against the ruling class.
’ 

I agree completely just the timing is a little suspect. This became a resurgent phrase/almost meme just in the past few months. 

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1 hour ago, That Little Animal said:

They go: ‘Muse say ministry of truth!!1!! Red pill confirmed!!’, rather than: ‘George Orwell wrote 1984, a novel about propaganda and oppression in an authoritarian regime. Since its publication, 1984 is often referenced by opponents of real and perceived authoritarianism and propaganda. In response, propagandists themselves like to accuse their political opponents of Orwellian practices.

I mean, I agree with what your saying but "ministry of truth" is pretty infamously a buzz phrase these days and when you throw that onto the pile with a song/album called "Will Of The People", another buzz phrase often utilized by the same people; as well as a song called "Compliance" with a music video in which people are ripping off masks, it's just... it seems like it will appeal to the wrong type of people. I know Matt well enough to trust that he doesn't actually espouse these views but if this is all truly accidental then he needs an editor before finalizing lyrics. If it's all ironic, I guess I haven't put the whole picture together. And maybe that's it: it's a concept album, maybe it all makes sense when we see the big picture.

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7 hours ago, Citizen_Eraser said:

The over emphasis of fictional to me seems to be a yeah, it's a fictional setting, but all these things exist in the real world sort of take. Being ironic basically.

George Orwell's 1984 was a work of fiction but clearly a scathing commentary on real world institutions from a very specific point of view. 

The question remains. Is Matt trying to be cleverly observant or trite?

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Update: listened to it since posting last and man if it didn't make me shake my little ass! Everyone's entitled to their opinions but this is the first single that has me stoked for the album. Got me shaking my little ass! It's definitely the Uprising/Psycho/Pressure of the album and with that comes some lyricism to be desired but I will almost always take "Muse just having a blast" if given the option especially when it makes me shake my little ass. Hopefully it's not the best song on the album but if most of what's left is in this direction, there may be hope for me yet!

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I was expecting so much more (again) but ok, it is not just rubbish. I´ve been a big Muse fan for a long time and nowadays for me it´s often enough to hear Matt´s advanced singing and have some nice riffs/comping here and there. Still makes me wonder where are those days when they were great orchestral space rock pioneers. This song would be a nice jingle for a new Tesla commercial. WSD is good, Compliance is maybe eehhmmm and with this WOTP I`m still working with.

..
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Posted (edited)

Anyone else watch the stream / at Rock Am Ring and hear Kill or be Killed? They just surprised everyone by playing it. It sounds like we have a WOTP version of Citizen Erased harmonic/Metal riffage, Stockholm riff into Invincible solo and electric arpeggio extravaganza with some vocal aerobics, can't wait to hear it on the album!! Pwoper Muse! 😃

Edited by Hypermused
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A long time ago when this board was super active someone had a thread about small snippets in Muse songs that make you jaw drop and go "holy fuck" the first time you heard them.

My answer way back then was when the guitar kicked in, in Exo part 1.

KOBK did that to me from 3:10-3:48. Pure fucking glory. Stockholm esque riff>neo classical tapping progression>random falsetto and modern Matt shouting (lmao)>"Either KILL OR BE KILLLLLLLLLLED!!!!"

Just fucking perfect.

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I’ve been a bit of a grump about their new stuff, but I couldn’t fault KoBK if I tried. 

I listen a couple of times and I just couldn’t put my finger on what was so familiar about the riff. Was it a Muse song? Was it Rage Against the Machine?

Until finally, it dawned on me: 

Right? Kind of, a little bit? 

 

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This is the kind of Muse song you can introduce to your friends and family without fear. It also has me fearing that the studio version won't be as good as a live version which is a clear sign of a winner. 

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Posted (edited)

Hilarious how Muse were born through being edgy and anti-establishment to some respect, toying with realistic (and not so realistic) conspiracy theories throughout their musical history, then when it goes the against narrative everyone here starts panicking.   

Nothing screams rock and roll more than being afraid you might be offending "the experts"

Edited by AC46
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Apart from KoBK, how’s everyone liking the other WoTP songs live? 

Impressions from the RaR liverstream:

I liked WoTP. The outfits, masks and Matt’s awkward butt-wiggling somehow worked for me and I got less of a Greenday vibe from it than from the studio version. It’s not ideal that the WoTP chant is pre-recorded. I wonder if they can get the crowd to sing it somehow. In fact, that could be massive as a bit of prepared audience participation. 

Won’t Stand Down isn’t really coming across for me. I never liked the verses and when it gets heavy I want them to act the part and go all Slipknot on stage. I don’t want Matt to blow out his voice on the screams, so it’s cool with me that it’s mostly a mic effect, but he should maybe pretend he’s screaming his lungs out for that bit. I want to feel the anger.

Compliance is fun, but starts of a bit bare. Would be fun if it was more danceable right from the start. 

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WOTP works as an opener! But yes, the chants shouldn‘t be pre-recorded, maybe all 4 of them (Dom, you can do it ..!) could sing it at the beginning, without  instruments and the crowd could join in? Maybe at the proper tour then .. Outfits including the masks, the fire with the  letters, I‘m totally in for it, but I was happy to see their faces after the song. 
 

Compliance is much better live, partly because of the guitar over the  synths. 
 

Won‘t stand down is great, being in the crowd should be 🔥 I thought Chris would shout it in the first place! Like in Reapers! But ok … 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Clunge said:

WOTP sounds mega live. The RaR and RiP vids look like loads of fun. But why we need Pressure in the set too, idk.

Agree. I guess that song has a big enough fanbase. It was their only song to be played on the radio from ST once it dropped. The other two singles were pre album-release.

Edited by Citizen_Eraser
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