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LP9: WOTP Discussion/Speculation Thread


Jobby
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19 minutes ago, Clunge said:

Also, I think Matt's problem with writing about some of this conspiracy theory nonsense is not so much the interest in it or writing about it, it's the completely opaque way in which he does it. It doesn't read or sound like someone questioning it, challenging it or debating it, it reads/sounds like someone espousing it which is more problematic.

Exactly. And with UFO stuff that's fun and harmless. But when it gets political you have to be critical about the origins, nature and intentions of the bullshit you're repeating.

That's what bothers me about all the conspiracy nutters. They completely dismiss or disqualify anything the dreaded mainstream (you know, the free press) publishes in favor of some obscure bullshit from outlets with much more obviously nefarious agendas. 

By all means, be critical, fight the power, fight the system, think differently, break the status quo, but don't tell me you're inspired by BLM protests and simultaneously broadcast the same nonsense online nazis tend to spread. Don't fucking pretend to be smarter than you are because you're reading and repeating stuff that's masquerading as some obscure superior knowledge. You're not Neo, this is not the Matrix, there is no fucking red pill, you just happen to be a little more susceptible to the same bullshit wrapped in messianic flattery that is available to everyone else. 

Edited by That Little Animal
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1 hour ago, That Little Animal said:

The Great Reset is the one that confirms my fears for me. Matt fell into the wrong hole again. 

Chill! The anagram has changed. Think you're getting way overboard with your own assumptions/fears. Good luck!

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1 hour ago, Clunge said:

Also, I think Matt's problem with writing about some of this conspiracy theory nonsense is not so much the interest in it or writing about it, it's the completely opaque way in which he does it. It doesn't read or sound like someone questioning it, challenging it or debating it, it reads/sounds like someone espousing it which is more problematic.

Was it ever though? Remember Exo Politics?

"When the Zetas fill the skies. It's just our leaders in disguise"

I bring up this example because I heard something funny recently. I have a relative who dabbles a bit in conspiracy stuff (definitely not a far gone one yet, he just questions and looks into things he hears, usually looking to debunk). And like 6 months ago when the US govt was starting to declassify some UFO stuff he'd mentioned how a topic going around in conspiracy circles about "them" setting up to stage an event, like with hologram technology of an alien invasion or something to usher in new measures of control. (if you've ever seen the really cool godzilla/moster hologram tech I think some company in Japan was using check it out, its amazing)

But anyway. It instantly made me LOL and go play Exo Politics to confirm that lyric.

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Have to say I'm very uncomfortable that if you were to show me an extract from Muse's recent promotional material and Laurence Fox's Twitter feed, I would not be able to tell the difference.  It's unsettling because I'm trying to give Matt the benefit of the doubt but that track listing and album just comes off at best, really immature, or at worst unpurposefully aligning with right wing lexiconography. It's as if Matt sees a lyrical minefield, and then plays hopscotch.

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1 hour ago, Citizen_Eraser said:

We already got a snippet - the will of the people chant *cringes hard*

The Lawsuit Of The Manson

Think that’s the title track (1) btw. Also I combined it with the post-Unsustainable riff from the ST Tour that Matt hinted would be on the album and it fits perfectly, co-producer Alex dropped a phat like on the edit as well.

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15 minutes ago, Jobby said:

The Lawsuit Of The Manson

Think that’s the title track (1) btw. Also I combined it with the post-Unsustainable riff from the ST Tour that Matt hinted would be on the album and it fits perfectly, co-producer Alex dropped a phat like on the edit as well.

Can you share this? I Never heard that riff.

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1 hour ago, Citizen_Eraser said:

Can you share this? I Never heard that riff.

4:00

Sped up to the tempo of the chant, it matches perfectly. I even layered them over each other to triple check. This is in D though, and the vocals seem to be in A.

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Eh, I usually get irritated by overt, ham-fisted political messaging, but in the music/arts scene it's usually establishment-pushing/left-leaning so Muse's approach to lyrics is feeling quite refreshing in this instance. There's been a lot of pressure, political, social and economical on people recently and I'm feeling the primal energy and no-nonsense vibe they're going for here.

Regarding stuff about the WEF, etc, it depends on how it's done really. The WEF does exist as a international body and does seem to have more influence than people might like to accept (Justin Trudeau for example is basically a WEF plant), and pretty radical plans in the pipeline (you'll own nothing and be happy, is the take-home line), so it's understandable to be wary of it.

Matt has some interesting opinions, and talks about some strange conspiratorial stuff, but I think most of the time he's just entertaining ideas, so I'm trying not to get too worked up about it.

You don't really have to be a "nutter" to see that things aren't quite right with the status quo at the moment, and also to see how massively demonised people are (like Laurence Fox for example) just for airing reasonable concerns and mirroring what the public are saying. We're heading into pretty unsettling and backward times, I reckon. Bring on the album for a bit of respite.

Edited by Hopix
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30 minutes ago, Hopix said:

You don't really have to be a "nutter" to see that things aren't quite right with the status quo at the moment, and also to see how massively demonised people are (like Laurence Fox for example) just for airing reasonable concerns and mirroring what the public are saying.

This was a very reasonably worded post but leeeeeeeeets not go here on Main Muse.mu

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1 hour ago, Hopix said:


You don't really have to be a "nutter" to see that things aren't quite right with the status quo at the moment, and also to see how massively demonised people are (like Laurence Fox for example) just for airing reasonable concerns and mirroring what the public are saying. We're heading into pretty unsettling and backward times, I reckon. Bring on the album for a bit of respite.

Are we talking about the same Laurence Fox who treated Covid with ... Check notes... Animal dewormer. Ok, reasonable concerns......

Laurence Fox does not represent what the public think. I'm cynical to the point of sighing my way through a Pixar movie but I refuse to believe that people are as ehthically vacuous as that 3rd rate hatemonger. It's folk like Fox that want us to be in backward and unsettling times because all they do is feed off hate and fear. 

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Okay, so I can understand how some could take "Won't Stand Down," "Will of the People," and the recent post regarding "Compliance" as a sign the new album's theme will center around espousing COVID-19 conspiracies and other right-wing talking points. However, even though some of these terms and lyrics are vague and could, in turn, be interpreted by some anti-vaxxers/maskers as defending their beliefs, I can confidently say Matt Bellamy is not a COVID-denier/anti-vaxxer/anti-masker/right-winger.

First off, since the inception of the pandemic, Bellamy has been sending masks and other supplies to healthcare workers - his cousin, in particular. On his Instagram page, he wrote the following:

"Very proud of my cousin Dr. @clairebellamy saving lives on the front lines in A&E/ER with the #nhs I'm sending her (for her and her colleagues) spare masks and stuff from our garage/#burningman supplies (hoping fedex can get it through from the US). Have a rummage through your garage and see what you can find to help #nhsheroes #clapforourcaers #healthcareforall"

With regard to COVID, he's said this:

"I think things could have been handled better. The dithering about whether to lock down or not probably will be seen as a mistake in the long-term, particularly in the UK.

And over here, obviously the leader (Boris Johnson of the Conservative Party) is an absolute buffoon, who as soon as he hears any conspiracy theory or any kind of alt-theory about some medication, you know, he'll speak about it publicly and without realising it's not actually tested or anything like that.

There's definitely some very specific examples that I think both leaders (Donald Trump as well) have completely fumbled the ball."

Speaking of Trump, here's what Matt tweeted about him:

"When a 'clown' takes the throne. Sorry I meant 'nazi c**t' #ImpeachTrump #digdown"

Bellamy has never been one to shy away from exploring conspiracy theories, perhaps more for curiosity's sake than anything else, but I think it'd be highly inaccurate to contend he's a COVID-denier/anti-vaxxer/anti-masker/right-winger or that his intent with the upcoming album is to defend said demographics' beliefs - in particular regarding the virus.

https://www.iheart.com/content/2020-03-28-muses-matt-bellamy-praises-cousin-working-on-covid-19-frontlines/

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/muse-matt-bellamy-interview-coronavirus-quarantine-999208

Edited by EternallyPissed
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I don't think Matt is anti vaxxer or whatever but he has a habit sticking his foot in it. This is the same Man who tweeted support for BLM and quickly followed it with a TiKToK about rescuing his guitars his studio in case they got looted during BLM protests. 

Matt tends to uses phrases because they sound cool but I often feel he doesn't fully grasp the weight and meaning behind them. Think of the use of the phrase The Final Solution casually dropped into Thought Contagion. The phrase was historically deployed to literally enable the wiping a whole race off the face of the earth, and Matt just drops it into the cringest of cringe lyrics. 

It's too late for a revolution

Brace for the final solution

For a lyricist, he has an underdeveloped understanding of the power of language.

Edited by Silentgod86
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1 hour ago, Silentgod86 said:

Are we talking about the same Laurence Fox who treated Covid with ... Check notes... Animal dewormer. Ok, reasonable concerns......

Laurence Fox does not represent what the public think. I'm cynical to the point of sighing my way through a Pixar movie but I refuse to believe that people are as ehthically vacuous as that 3rd rate hatemonger. It's folk like Fox that want us to be in backward and unsettling times because all they do is feed off hate and fear. 

Idk who Laurence Fox is but on that specific topic, doctors were prescribing that drug.

It's a multi faceted drug that there are human doses and applications for. The whole narrative that a bunch of nuts are going to farm supply stores and buying horse de wormer off the shelf was spread by the same morons that thought people actually drank fish tanker cleaner (mistaken for hydroxy-chloriquine) and died.

 

Edit: But yeah, like Jobby said. Lets not get into talking about stuff like this here.

Edited by Citizen_Eraser
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^ this is a good post (eternallypissed)

I recognise that it is likely irrational worry. Probably mostly a result of familiar phrasing triggering our experiences with all that shite over the last couple of years. Matt’s never been perfect with his words but you don’t get the sense he’s a dodgy bloke, so it’s always worth the benefit of the doubt regardless. That said, they should be aware of how these things can be construed and the kind of toxic dialogue it can breed in the current climate, but that unintentional slip isn’t necessarily anything new to Muse and it’s not a big problem.

I said in a comment somewhere else that, a statement like that wouldn’t have stood out at all anytime in the past by Muse standards. It’s just the glaring context of what the world’s gone through when it was written.

Edited by Jobby
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7 hours ago, Clunge said:

Closing with something like We Are Fucking Fucked reminds me of how Biffy closed their latest album with something equally odd in Slurpy Slurpy Sleep Sleep.

is this the general consensus of the title of the closing track?

also, if this is only a 10-song album, i'm thinking of a late may digital release and a physical release mid-to-late summer.

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3 hours ago, Jobby said:

4:00

Sped up to the tempo of the chant, it matches perfectly. I even layered them over each other to triple check. This is in D though, and the vocals seem to be in A.

Back on topic though but thanks for sharing this! Hadn’t heard it before. 
 

It actually made me bust out my whammy pedal and reinstall Cubase to play unsustainable on this bad boy I just got last week. Probably the greatest piece of Muse memorabilia I could ever ask for just shy of Matt actually handing you a guitar from the stage.

5F78A624-7E6E-4719-90CE-012579AD0E31.jpeg

Edited by Citizen_Eraser
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1 hour ago, Jobby said:

^ this is a good post (eternallypissed)

I recognise that it is likely irrational worry. Probably mostly a result of familiar phrasing triggering our experiences with all that shite over the last couple of years. Matt’s never been perfect with his words but you don’t get the sense he’s a dodgy bloke, so it’s always worth the benefit of the doubt regardless. That said, they should be aware of how these things can be construed and the kind of toxic dialogue it can breed in the current climate, but that unintentional slip isn’t necessarily anything new to Muse and it’s not a big problem.

I said in a comment somewhere else that, a statement like that wouldn’t have stood out at all anytime in the past by Muse standards. It’s just the glaring context of what the world’s gone through when it was written.

Thanks. That's a fair and reasonable take. I just know Matt has said previously he focuses on the music first, lyrics second, and I have a hunch many of us read a bit too much into things at times. One thing I've always liked about Muse is they don't seem to take themselves too seriously, so while we may read a lyric and think, "WTF?!?," Matt, Dom, and Chris may see the same lyric and chuckle, as they say to one another, "Remember what inspired this song? I'll never do shrooms and watch that 'Bob Ross Painting' show again!" Personally, I'm just excited for a new album. I'll analyze and grade it after I listen to it and read the lyrics a few times.

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  • JessicaSarahS changed the title to LP9: WOTP Discussion/Speculation Thread

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