haze015 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Maybe it's experimenting that you don't personally like, but that doesn't make it objectively bad. Yes it can be objectively bad. If the experiment has a purpose and fails to achieve that, then it is objectively bad, even if people subjectively enjoy it, which is rarely the aim with experimental music. Muse's attempts at reinvention/re-defining don't appear to be successful, as nobody really knows who they are any more (Met enough young people who are surprised when they hear Showbiz/OOS!). T2L doesn't do anything different that Muse hadn't done before, just used a different set of genres, its the same formula they've used for 2/3 albums prior. No idea how its experimental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappySpaceman Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 That would involve keeping UD around, which gets a no from me (and fortunately seems to finally be getting edged out by the band as well). Maybe I should have reworded it to say "on the few times they play UD, they should use the keytar." It certainly beats Matt strutting around the stage like he's Bono. Obvs I'd rather Resistance was bunked off as well but it's super popular with other people so I'm relatively fine with that and thankful it's not an out-and-out staple as it is. Also, I probably prefer it without the double-neck 'cause that came in tandem with an extra 1/2-minute intro iirc and I'd rather just get the song over with. Now that I think of it, they still play the Resistance intro, don't they? Only it's now the intro to The Globalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappySpaceman Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Yes it can be objectively bad. If the experiment has a purpose and fails to achieve that, then it is objectively bad, even if people subjectively enjoy it, which is rarely the aim with experimental music. Soooo... what am I supposed to get out of this, then? The album is bad and my opinion that it's good is objectively wrong just because you guys don't personally enjoy it like I do? Is that what I'm supposed to take from this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Soooo... what am I supposed to get out of this, then? The album is bad and my opinion that it's good is objectively wrong just because you guys don't personally enjoy it like I do? Is that what I'm supposed to take from this? What you're supposed to get out of this is not to say things that are objectively wrong to reinforce your subjective opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappySpaceman Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 What you're supposed to get out of this is not to say things that are objectively wrong to reinforce your subjective opinion. There's nothing objectively wrong about saying "I think Drones is a good album" and praising it for thing you think it did well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 There's nothing objectively wrong about saying "I think Drones is a good album" and praising it for thing you think it did well. Calling it 'wildly experimental' is objectively wrong. Nothing wrong with your subjective opinion, enjoy enjoying it! But its not experimental, or even a transitional album, its not reinvention either. The definition on wikipedia: "Experimental music is a compositional practice defined broadly by exploratory sensibilites and movement radically opposed to and questioning of institutionalized musical compositional, performing, and aesthetic conventions" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappySpaceman Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Calling it 'wildly experimental' is objectively wrong. Nothing wrong with your subjective opinion, enjoy enjoying it! But its not experimental, or even a transitional album, its not reinvention either. Okay, fine, whatever. So it's dabbling in different genres. Happy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Okay, fine, whatever. So it's dabbling in different genres. Happy now? Yeah and the criticism by others is that it dabbles too much and lacks cohesion as a whole, despite enjoying songs separately. Which is entirely subjective of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappySpaceman Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Yeah and the criticism by others is that it dabbles too much and lacks cohesion as a whole, despite enjoying songs separately. Which is entirely subjective of course. Great. Glad we could come to that conclusion. And sorry if I came off as angry earlier. I'm really stressed out and in pain right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 C'mon, Muse are bad but not enough to cause pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappySpaceman Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 C'mon, Muse are bad but not enough to cause pain. Not because of Muse, silly. (Also, they aren't bad.) My mom lost her job and my dad is in danger of losing his. They both had a huge argument last night and they were yelling within feet of my ears. Due to me having hypersensitive hearing, which means that loud or discordant noises are amplified for me, so my ears have been ringing since. Oh yeah, and both threatened to kill themselves at separate times, which makes me wonder if I was the cause of any of this and if I should do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kueller Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Yeah but like I said, most of what they did on T2L they had already done before. And simply bringing in some dub step elements and a choir isn't enough to be considered wildly experimental imo. Never said it was wildly experimental, but the band was clearly experimenting with something even if they never truly bothered to put the effort into integration. Any album could be considered experimental if only considered within the context of those musicians. However reinvention is probably more appropriate than experimental in this particular context. On the other side very few albums in popular music could be considered experimental if you only considered it in the context of all music. While never as blatant as Muse taking preexisting and defined music styles and merging them into something else isn't far from what experimentation usually entails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappySpaceman Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I wouldn't mind seeing Uprising as a gig closer. (Well, as long as Matt plays guitar all the way through.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I wouldn't mind seeing Uprising as a gig closer. (Well, as long as Matt plays guitar all the way through.) I'd rather see Starlight close again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Never said it was wildly experimental, but the band was clearly experimenting with something even if they never truly bothered to put the effort into integration. Yeah I know! But that was the statement that sparked this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappySpaceman Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I'd rather see Starlight close again. Aaaaand no. (Especially considering that it's clear Matt won't bring back the guitar on it any time soon.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Aaaaand no. (Especially considering that it's clear Matt won't bring back the guitar on it any time soon.) It had guitar for all of 2015 until the arena tour started tbf. With or without it though, it'd still be a more fitting closer than bloody Uprising Starlight without guitar > Uprising with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) On the other side very few albums in popular music could be considered experimental if you only considered it in the context of all music. While never as blatant as Muse taking preexisting and defined music styles and merging them into something else isn't far from what experimentation usually entails. That's correct. Its not that it doesn't happen, just quite rare. As I said, reinvention/redefining are probably better terms and is fairly common to use these terms when describing certain pop-acts (Bowie, Madonna, Bjork etc), yet the exact thing they are doing gets described as 'experimental' when its other acts. Dunno if its just misplaced snobbery or what, but it is annoying. Kraftwerk is probably the best example of experimental and popular music as one thing. Or there's I Feel Love. Edited January 1, 2017 by haze015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappySpaceman Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) For some reason, "Dead Inside" really reminds me of Depeche Mode, though I can't think of which DM song it reminds me of. Edit: Whoops, wrong thread! Edited January 2, 2017 by TheHappySpaceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Starlight without guitar > Uprising with it. Now, now, don't overdo it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Now, now, don't overdo it. I'm not tho Uprising was really solid from '09 to '14 but it went to absolute guff at the start of '15 for some reason, even before he started dropping the guitar for it. Starlight's obvs a shadow of its former self as well nowadays but I still enjoyed it at least twice on the last tour. Haven't remotely enjoyed Uprising since the Etihad gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I thought Uprising looked dull ever since the start of T2L tour. Those performances were a borefest, while Starlight felt quite emotional due to its place in the setlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Guitarless Uprising is shit but I've seen it twice on T2L tour and thought it was a great encore opener (and the visuals were cool during both the Arena and the Stadium tour). It's one of these songs that both hardcore and casual fans seem to enjoy, and it gets the crowd singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forevermusic Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I liked Uprising more with no guitar and nipple rubs at the O2 then I did at Brighton, where I thought the band looked bored playing it and the audience wasn't really into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Uprising has never been solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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