Hat Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 So one note is dragged out longer than the other. This could easily be done in post. Jesus. No, if what you're saying is the case, they have first removed the first part of the falsetto, then replaced it with chest voice an octave lower. It's not just the chest note being dragged out, they have actually REMOVED the G5 from the first one. Let me give you another example: This is the beginning of the falsetto section of both. Note, I did NOT cut out any falsetto at the start, meaning that a whole section is missing from one of them (the section that is sung in chest voice in the second video) Then after that there is a part that really should prove to you that it's two different recordings. (They're of the same part in the different videos, and he's even singing different vowels) http://picosong.com/PsGN/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Let's focus on finding the real gig the amazing note is from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I AM on Haze's side by thinking that's it's simply post-editing of the same performance, just not that it's something done with Melodyne or the like. Some parts of the performance are identical, while others are too different for a simple makeover in the studio (meaning they're definitely real notes). Might be a cut and paste job, simply replacing certain parts of the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I AM on Haze's side by thinking that's it's simply post-editing of the same performance, just not that it's something done with Melodyne or the like. Some parts of the performance are identical, while others are too different for a simple makeover in the studio (meaning they're definitely real notes). Might be a cut and paste job, simply replacing certain parts of the song. Melodyne is not just pitch correction, it is also capable of time stretching, copy & pasting (Could create a polyphonic performance from a single vocal take) and so on. The first video is what it was changed to, the second being the original performance. Could be a copy & paste job from another performance, but everything needed is there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Melodyne is not just pitch correction, it is also capable of time stretching, copy & pasting (Could create a polyphonic performance from a single vocal take) and so on. The first video is what it was changed to, the second being the original performance. oops, my bad. Wasn't the best phrasing. What I did mean was ofc using it for pitch correction. Because like I said, copy & pasting was probably involved, but definitely not all from that performance. There are other recordings involved. Yes, I know. but everything needed is there anyway. It really isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerd herd Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 So Matt might have actually messed up playing when he fell over? Has anyone got an audience recording from the live 8 performance? That wouldn't be edited at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It really isn't. What experience do you actually have of using these tools? Just to give you an idea of what is possible with less than 6 seconds of sound (People rarely use the entire Amen Break): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrduRe7pVhg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 What experience do you actually have of using these tools?Not that much, I'll admit. But isn't it weird that they're perfectly capable of making up a G5 out of nowhere, but still are only capable of plastering the studio notes on top of the lower live notes on songs like TaB and Survival in the live DVDs, with the original notes still audible? But please tell me, how would you go about creating that high note? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Just to give you an idea of what is possible with less than 6 seconds of sound (People rarely use the entire Amen Break): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrduRe7pVhg Editing a drum beat is quite different to editing a vocal track and still having it sound human though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 But please tell me, how would you go about creating that high note? Stretch the note to start where it starts in the first video, then adjust pitch to taste. With the vocal distortion, can afford to be a touch liberal with how far I can go with this sort of processing before it becomes obvious. You might want to take a look at videos demonstrating Melodyne. It is fucking scary. Forget any ideas you may have about Auto-tune and that sound. Editing a drum beat is quite different to editing a vocal track and still having it sound human though. True, but you'll be surprised with what can be gotten away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Stretch the note to start where it starts in the first video, then adjust pitch to taste. With the vocal distortion, can afford to be a touch liberal with how far I can go with this sort of processing before it becomes obvious. You might want to take a look at videos demonstrating Melodyne. It is fucking scary. Forget any ideas you may have about Auto-tune and that sound. Pretty much all the videos I've seen on Melodyne has been about fixing minor faults. Any examples of when it's being used to alter things more drastically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Pretty much all the videos I've seen on Melodyne has been about fixing minor faults. Any examples of when it's being used to alter things more drastically? No idea tbh. I'm personally more likely to use other software to play with timing issues, or getting creative with it and just use Melodyne to tidy up pitch. Bit of a waste considering what it can do. Closest I've got to using it to do anything creative vocal wise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kiAXoBJCVI Some of the harmony demonstrations might be worth a look. But yeah, a lot of demo videos for studio tools are mostly tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 No idea tbh. I'm personally more likely to use other software to play with timing issues, or getting creative with it and just use Melodyne to tidy up pitch. Bit of a waste considering what it can do. Some of the harmony demonstrations might be worth a look. But yeah, a lot of demo videos for studio tools are mostly tame I did check one harmony demonstration and it was truly awful But I'll look more into it. So far I can't see anything close to what's been done in the Muse video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I did check one harmony demonstration and it was truly awful But I'll look more into it. So far I can't see anything close to what's been done in the Muse video. Yeah, unfortunately those types of videos usually suck balls. If you listen very carefully, you can hear in the first video: When the falsetto/head voice comes in, it is very abrupt change from the chest voice beforehand. Also the other bit you pointed out, where in the "original" video, also sounds nearing to screaming, there is an abrupt cut to a breathe, so again another edit. So either they've taken another performance and dubbed it in or use processing to stretch notes out and manipulate the timing & pitch of everything going on there, the latter is certainly capable of that. Given the precision of the first note and generally the performance as a whole, it is a fair assumption that pitch correction has more than likely been used, the question is how far did they go with it. Pitch and time correction tools pose a different set of problems to vocal comping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum IV Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The latter is rough as shit, the former is a little too clinical, that would suggest things have been messed with. Why would they tune a note to make it flat when the original note wasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Why would they tune a note to make it flat when the original note wasn't? Keep it in key, thought it worked better… who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiga Kagekami Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Then there's also the guitar bridge right after the second chorus. Played differently in both versions (and I think there's missing notes as well), don't really see a reason why they'd pitch correct/remove those notes but oh well. I still find it hard to believe that the falsetto was artificially made. Not because of the lack of technical prowess but I don't know if Muse actually did it. If they did, they have quite the history of perfectionism or something. At this point I'm more inclined to think it was partially dubbed, albeit still being pitch corrected. EDIT - wrong part of the song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Then there's also the guitar bridge right after the second chorus. Played differently in both versions (and I think there's missing notes as well), don't really see a reason why they'd pitch correct/remove those notes but oh well. I still find it hard to believe that the falsetto was artificially made. Not because of the lack of technical prowess but I don't know if Muse actually did it. If they did, they have quite the history of perfectionism or something. At this point I'm more inclined to think it was partially dubbed, albeit still being pitch corrected. EDIT - wrong part of the song Shit yeah! Watching the full things, there is a lot going on that is different. No real information about the DVD anywhere (Trying to find info about the personnel involved). Quite clear the original footage was not release worthy, but a lot more has happened there than just a quick tidy up. But I guess if its a DVD with other bands, you want to appear your best. Of course it is possible both dubbing and correction has happened, just a bit strange to do both, or at least over-excessive. Or you're still having to correct the overdubs, that does defeat the entire point somewhat. But the thing about dubbing/comping vocals, or any instrument that can't be DI'ed, is that even if you use exactly the same equipment, if you go into a different space, or even move to a different position, the sound changes. So comping a performance from different takes in different places can easily sound just as fake as pitch-correction. Guitars, bass etc are easy to get away with because you can DI them, create the ideal take, then re-amp after. If people think photoshopping is awful, they shouldn't get into music production basically. Actually, films are just as bad, ADR work is not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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